how can nuisance claims be more successful?

[John Ackerly]

I am amazed at how many neighbors of really bad outdoor wood boiler smoke can't get any remedy through a nuisance claim. As I understand it, nuisance claims by one neighbor against another are pretty difficult unless there is a specific county or state law that defines what a wood smoke nuisance is. Places like Washington State and Maine have done this, and Washington even has trained enforcement personnel who routinely handle excessive smoke issues and can fine people after a warning or two. I always thought if you blared super loud music at night, it was pretty easy for cops or city to stop you and fine you. Why is it so hard with wood smoke? Is it because there are specific regulations defining what constitutes loud music? Any insights here would be appreciated. Maybe there is a lawyer or two on this list?

 

[Kool_hand_Looke]

If there's anything written...it's probably pretty loose. I've got two of my closest neighbors who are far enough away I can't even see their house who run old wood furnaces in even older homes. I can't still smell their wood burning at my place. I couldn't imagine being right next to them though.

 

[mellow]

If left up to this guy everything wood burning would be banned, I agree with him on OWB bans that belch smoke, but not with clean burning wood products: (broken link removed)

He has a list of OWB bans and articles on people getting them banned due to bad burners.

 

[begreen]

Having clear, enforceable regulations on smoke output would be a good first step. In WA state these exist and set a standard for smoke that includes duration and opacity.

In lieu of local regs start with a written complaint to the state dept of air quality and the health dept.. Get their response on record. Have them come out and measure the smoke levels to get that on record as well. If this is about the Morgan County problem, they should file here:
(broken link removed to http://www.airquality.utah.gov/Compliance/complaint.htm)

 

[mellow]

Laws like this would curb it, just like with loud music they have a way to measure via decibel or SPL, via the website i posted earlier:

Grand Forks, BRITISH COLUMBIA - The bylaw states that “no person shall create a nuisance using a wood burning appliance in such a way as to disturb the health and comfort of two or more persons from separate dwellings.” Enforcement would be complaint driven and fines could be up to $500.

Elmira, NEW YORK - Ban on smoke and other deleterious fumes that cross property lines onto the property of another. Fines are $250 for a second offence or a jail term.

The STATE of WASHINGTON has laws to address neighbor's wood smoke. According to the Puget Sound Clean Air Agency, “generating excessive smoke is not only unneighborly, it’s illegal. Under state regulations, smoke from a person’s chimney cannot exceed 20 percent opacity for six consecutive minutes. Greater smoke densities could result in fines from air pollution control officials. It is always illegal to smoke out your neighbor. Everyone has a right to breathe clean air. If smoke from your fire is affecting your neighbors, it is considered a nuisance and subject to enforcement action.”

 

[BrotherBart]

Washington is ahead of the curve.

“Occasionally, people will unfortunately have such a bodily odor that it’s very hard for other patrons to physically be in that same space.” So says Kamuron Gurol, city manager of Burien, Washington, the city that has banned smelling bad in public spaces.

 

[begreen]

LOL

 

[Mellery]

Most, but not all jurisdictions have some form of ordinance or law forbidding disturbing the peace of others. It tends to be a catch-all and can be interpreted for things not specifically listed elsewhere. So you, spouses, friends, neighbors, etc can divvy up the laws in your area and start reading them (normally found online) or you can visit an attorney in your area who will know exactly where this can fit in to existing regulations.

Otherwise, like Begreen states above - look for air quality and health departments and talk with folks there. Often the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so persistence tends to be key.

Lastly, getting a new regulation or law into place. Persistence works, one way or another. I think this is no different than many things, you simply refuse to give up : )

 

[northwinds]

I think there's a little bit of "cry wolf" and "neighbor revenge" mixed in with a lot of valid complaints. Also, when you have people who want to ban all wood burning, I think it detracts from those with valid complaints (neighbor with woodburner who burns garbage and green lumber).

 

[begreen]

Video proof over a sustained period of time should dispel concerns of crying wolf. So would having the air tested by the health or air quality dept..

 

[northwinds]

Video proof over a sustained period of time should dispel concerns of crying wolf. So would having the air tested by the health or air quality dept..

Agreed, that would separate some of the wheat from the chaff. Air testing over a sustained period would be ideal, but costly for government agencies that are already way behind in statutorily mandated inspections.

 

[tarzan]

Isn't the problem with OWB's the OWB itself. Shouldn't these things be regulated just like indoor wood stoves?

Being outdoors, couldn't there be some type of scrubber system put on them or a re-burn like a double barrel stove? Not sure how but something could be done to make them burn cleaner.

It just seems to me, and I'm not taking the side of the People who smoke out there neighbors, but I doubt they buy them with that intention.

Just like many of us here, they are likely just trying to make ends meet and or not be such a slave to the grid. We burn indoors but if the EPA hadn't mandated the stoves we use we would all be still smoking.

This site is by far the most educational place I know of when it comes to wood burning but more also needs to happen to educate the general public. Let's face it, as good as this site is, what percentage of wood burners ever make there way here. And even then, how many log off thinking folks here are crazy when there told the answer to most problems. YOUR WOODS NOT DRY!

 

[Highbeam]

WA law is excessive. The fine is up to 1000$ for smoke lasting longer than 6 minutes at more than 20% opacity. That is a ridiculous performance standard and an excessive fine that in no way matches the crime. It's so ridiculous that we give up and just do our best.

 

[begreen]

If there was an offense the initial penalty would be much less. First offenders that are cooperative will most likely get off with just a warning. The high limit is for repeat and non-cooperative offenders. Similarly the fine is $25 - 500 in Salt Lake City with the higher number being for repeat offenders.

 

[John Ackerly]

How about this: if a neighbor whose OWB is smoking them out, and they have tried and failed to get air quality people to do anything about it, which is pretty common, they could blare loud music at the OWB owners house all day. Then, the town or city or county would have to decide which nuisance to deal with. This may be a stupid idea if the OWB owner is also an NRA member, but it seems to me that here is a double standard sometimes, where authorities are more likely to address noise than smoke. If nothing else, it may be a way to get the attention of the air agency or media - or both.

 

[begreen]

Set up a pig sty with a few pigs in the front yard. Summer will be your revenge.

 

[Highbeam]

If there was an offense the initial penalty would be much less. First offenders that are cooperative will most likely get off with just a warning. The high limit is for repeat and non-cooperative offenders. Similarly the fine is $25 - 500 in Salt Lake City with the higher number being for repeat offenders.

That's what you would like to think but that is not the law. 1000$, first offense, 21% opacity, for6.1 minutes. That's the law. Just as stupid as bans on a countywide basis when the counties reach from shore to mountain top based on air quality in the dirty city.

 

[begreen]

The fine is "up to $1000" which is what we're discussing. Locally I have never seen or heard of the air quality fine being levied in spite of some true, regular violators. This is probably because no one is reporting them.

What is the penalty for violating a burn ban?

If our inspectors observe a burn ban violation, they will issue a Notice of Violation to the property owner. Notices of Violation carry a maximum fine of up to $1,000.
(broken link removed to http://www.pscleanair.org/priorities/woodheating/Pages/burnbans.aspx)

Agency inspectors enforce burn bans by looking for smoke coming from your chimney or stack. If they see thick smoke, you may get a Notice of Violation.
(broken link removed to http://www.pscleanair.org/library/Documents/burn_bans_2013.pdf)

Based on previous history and only 12 inspectors, I think you have to be a serious repeat violator to get the maximum fine.
(broken link removed)

 

[Highbeam]

I know the law and you again trust the goodwill of regulators to "take it easy" or cut breaks to people that they deem fit to receive a reduced fine. The law stinks, is totally out of line and hoping the regulators don't use it doesn't make the punishment listed any more reasonable.

 

[begreen]

Read the article. It's not trust, just reality. There are only 12 inspectors. It's unlikely they would ever be sniffing in your neighborhood or mine. The population density is too low. The one case they sited in the article received a warning the first time and an $850 fine the second time.

 

[Woody Stover]

WA law is excessive. The fine is up to 1000$ for smoke lasting longer than 6 minutes at more than 20% opacity. That is a ridiculous performance standard and an excessive fine that in no way matches the crime. It's so ridiculous that we give up and just do our best.

Maybe if you quit trying to burn all that creososte out of your BK, they will leave you alone. Actually, I would think it would be pretty easy to meet those standards if you know what you're doing (with a modern stove...tougher with a smoke-bomber, gotta keep adjusting the air to not overfire, and hard to get a clean overnight burn, for sure. That's why they need to get rid of 'em somehow.) Some people are just too lazy and/or ignorant to burn clean.

 

[northwinds]

Maybe if you quit trying to burn all that creososte out of your BK, they will leave you alone. Actually, I would think it would be pretty easy to meet those standards if you know what you're doing (with a modern stove...tougher with a smoke-bomber, gotta keep adjusting the air to not overfire, and hard to get a clean overnight burn, for sure. That's why they need to get rid of 'em somehow.) Some people are just too lazy and/or ignorant to burn clean.

I'm not sure what the 21% opacity converts to in real-life stove burning, but it takes me a lot more than 6 minutes even on an overnight reload to get the stove burning cleanly. And on a cold start, I'm just getting started after 6 minutes.

 

[Woody Stover]

I'm not sure what the 21% opacity converts to in real-life stove burning, but it takes me a lot more than 6 minutes even on an overnight reload to get the stove burning cleanly. And on a cold start, I'm just getting started after 6 minutes.

I might have been premature in guessing how easy it would be, but I think if you are burning with a good amount of flame you would be OK after 6 min. There's always top-down for a cold start. Burning clean might take a little more work, some people don't like that. I doubt that anyone would raise too much fuss if you are a bit on the wrong side of the requirements, as long as you are clean for the vast majority of the burn. Sure, the law could be strictly enforced to harass someone but the same could be said of many laws, both old and recent.

 

[Highbeam]

Try it sometime. 6 minutes and (essentially) no smoke from a cold start. That's year round. I can't/don't do the top down burns but even if you could I know it takes longer than 6 minutes to engage the cat and go smokeless.

 

[Chuck Pearson]

I have my fireplace burning clean long before it gets light, long before the neighbors are looking outside or going outside and long before an inspector working 8-5 would be around. If somebody is serious about heating with wood there is no reason for him to be smoking up the neighborhood after it gets light. Here is a chart showing what 20% opacity means. (broken link removed to http://smokeschool.net/ringlemanchart1.htm)