How low an output can a Harman P61A be run at?

[SciGuy]

I've just moved into a cabin located in the foothills of the Adirondacks that's currently heated with a propane. forced air furnace. While the cabin is only about 800sf it seems like the $$$$$$ are flying right down the road every time the propane furnace runs. The temperatures here can reach -25*F so even though the cabin is small, it may potentially require a good deal of heat. I've found what looks like a decent deal on a Harman P61A but wonder if it can be run at a low enough setting to not overheat the cabin when it's not brutally cold out. The manual mentions feed rate at low as .75lb per hour which Ito me works out at .75lb X 8000BTU/lb X .79 efficiency of a P61= ~4800BTU/ hour . Can the P61 really be fired that low a usage.

I imagine a P43 would be more appropriately sized but if the large stove can be throttled down as far as it would seems it would seem to work as well.

Thanks for any informed replies.

Hugh

 

[DAKSY]

Run it in "Room Temp" &set the temperature as low as you want.
It'll run that way as long as there are pellets in it.
Won't hurt that bad boy at all.

 

[SciGuy]

Bob, .

So if purchased for a good price, there's no downside you can think of in buying a used P61 over a P43 for heating a smaller area?

Thanks for the quick reply,

Hugh

 

[DAKSY]

You can ALWAYS run a big stove lower, but you can't get more heat out of a small one.
I have one of each & kick my self in the butt for not getting the P61A instead of the P43...

 

[alternativeheat]

Running it in room temp mode you can just set it so it shuts down when up to temp. Then it will restart automatically when heat is called for, not much different than a furnace on a thermostat really. Set your feed at 3-1/2 to 4 or so and forget it exists.

I will say that be it propane or pellets you still have to buy fuel. The pellet stove you have to clean regularly, not propane so much.

 

[bogieb]

The biggest problem will be losing 30 sq/ft of your already small area (stove is 2' x 2' and you need 18"-22" clearance on each side and something like 3' in front). A P43 has less side and front clearances so will take up less square footage. If you can live with the space needs of the P61, you should be fine.

 

[SciGuy]

That's a good point. I'll have to do a bit of measuring and see how big a deal it is.

Thanks for getting me to consider that angle.

Hugh

 

[P51mustang]

Having lived in the foothills of the Adirondacks most of my life, trust me when I tell you that you may get temps even colder than -25 F.....Add in windchill and the occasional stretch of a week or two straight of negative DAYTIME highs and you'll be glad you bought the P61A.

I live in Lewis County right on the edge of the Adirondack Park and have had night time lows of -40 below not counting wind chill! It's not unusual and does happen when we get polar air that lingers for days or even weeks.

I also own a P61A and have certainly put it through it's paces over the years. My house is 1800 square feet with a lot of windows (albeit Pella brand double pane argon filled). I would add to alternativeheat's post by mentioning that if you put the stove in "Room Temp." and "Manual" start, the P61A will not go out completely and only idle up and down when calling for more or less heat depending upon your heat setting. This will save your ignitor as it never needs to ignite since the stove never goes out. However, you will burn slightly more pellets as even in idle the stove needs pellets to keep the fire burning.

This is the setting I use once we hit typical "North Country" late November early December outside temps and I never shut the stove down completely until I do my 3 week cleaning. After cleaning, I put the stove back in room temp.,toggle to auto start, and once the stove ignites, toggle back to manual start, and leave it there until the next cleaning. Only thing I do is raise the heat setting and feed rate if the outside temps. get real cold.

One other comment, since your cabin is not too big, you may think the P61A will cook you out. It will radiate pretty substantial amounts of heat as it's a well built, heavy stove. But you can cope pretty easily by idling way down and by simply cracking a window slightly if you find it's too hot. I would bet on a cold, crisp Adirondack night in late January you'll have no problem cooling down should you get too hot. Just crack a window....Pellets, being relatively cheap in upstate, NY won't crash your bank should you lose a little heat now and then.....Go for the P61A and welcome to the Adirondacks!

 

[SciGuy]

Having lived in the foothills of the Adirondacks most of my life, trust me when I tell you that you may get temps even colder than -25 F.....Add in windchill and the occasional stretch of a week or two straight of negative DAYTIME highs and you'll be glad you bought the P61A.

I live in Lewis County right on the edge of the Adirondack Park and have had night time lows of -40 below not counting wind chill! It's not unusual and does happen when we get polar air that lingers for days or even weeks.

I also own a P61A and have certainly put it through it's paces over the years. My house is 1800 square feet with a lot of windows (albeit Pella brand double pane argon filled). I would add to alternativeheat's post by mentioning that if you put the stove in "Room Temp." and "Manual" start, the P61A will not go out completely and only idle up and down when calling for more or less heat depending upon your heat setting. This will save your ignitor as it never needs to ignite since the stove never goes out. However, you will burn slightly more pellets as even in idle the stove needs pellets to keep the fire burning.

This is the setting I use once we hit typical "North Country" late November early December outside temps and I never shut the stove down completely until I do my 3 week cleaning. After cleaning, I put the stove back in room temp.,toggle to auto start, and once the stove ignites, toggle back to manual start, and leave it there until the next cleaning. Only thing I do is raise the heat setting and feed rate if the outside temps. get real cold.

One other comment, since your cabin is not too big, you may think the P61A will cook you out. It will radiate pretty substantial amounts of heat as it's a well built, heavy stove. But you can cope pretty easily by idling way down and by simply cracking a window slightly if you find it's too hot. I would bet on a cold, crisp Adirondack night in late January you'll have no problem cooling down should you get too hot. Just crack a window....Pellets, being relatively cheap in upstate, NY won't crash your bank should you lose a little heat now and then.....Go for the P61A and welcome to the Adirondacks!

Thanks for the very useful and warm reply neighbor,

We're located in Constableville which is between Boonville and Lowville i.e. also in Lewis County. Do you have a recommendation for local pellets? I see there's a Harman deal in Lowville and will likely stop to see them tomorrow.

Kind regards,

Hugh

 

[Mt Bob]

If it helps you.my cabin is 24 foot square,dirt floor basement,1/2 underground,1'st floor=mudroom,kitchen dining room,open,small bathroom/pantry,upstairs=2 bedrooms,open area with reloading bench,good size bathroom.I heated,for years,with the integra,from the basement.Several years ago I installed the Accentra(lol rebuilt it to sell) in the living room area,heat is more even,and I use way less pellets.But I also get great afternoon sun.You can run the p61 many ways,and,what I use on evenings I do not need much heat,is "fireplace" mode.The 61 would heat up faster,if you turn stat down at night/when away,and has a big hopper.I think you would never regret the Harman.

 

[P51mustang]

Thanks for the very useful and warm reply neighbor,

We're located in Constableville which is between Boonville and Lowville i.e. also in Lewis County. Do you have a recommendation for local pellets? I see there's a Harman deal in Lowville and will likely stop to see them tomorrow.

Kind regards,

Hugh

My pleasure, Hugh....I live just outside Lowville, NY in the town of Watson...As a matter of fact, the Harman dealer in Lowville is also where I bought my P61A and for many years have also purchased my pellets. Kevin and his crew are good people....

He stocks's Empire brand pellets which are a mid quality pellet manufactured in Lafargeville, NY (just outside Watertown, NY in Jefferson County). They're a hardwood pellet which this year cost $249 a ton. I've burned better and far worse pellets but for the price and the fact that they're a local product, Empire pellets are a good deal and can't be beat in my opinion. I've burned them the past 10 years or so.

Besides the gang at Moose River (formerly called Lowville Masonry supply) there are many pellet dealers very near Constableville as you're very close to Rome and Utica, NY which affords you many options. In the Lowville area you can choose from ACE, Tractor Supply, White's Lumber in Watertown, Dolhoff True Value Hardware in Lyons Falls, as well as Widmeyer's in Glenfield. Also, Buckingham Hardware in Croghan is a good choice too. These dealers usually stock New England or Curran brand pellets. Decent pellets but not as good as Empire in my opinion...

Should you ultimately choice a Harman stove, rest assured it will burn any brand of pellet....But some brands are certainly better than others. A good pellet will throw a lot of heat with limited ash. That's the "Holy Grail" so to speak with pellet brands. Now that I know your cabin is in Constableville, a place I have a great deal of knowledge of and know the climate, I think either choice of the P43 or the P61A is a good one.

Constableville is a very historic and cool place to have a nice retreat....My house is basically slightly north of you and on the other side of the Black River Valley. Welcome to the "North Country," Hugh and any questions you have regarding pellet stoves, post here as this site is a great resource with lots of folks who know their stuff about all kinds of things....Stay Frosty!

Kevin

 

[Pete Zahria]

one thing about the auto setting...
In decent weather, that is a good way to go. But what I find, in a not so greatly insulated house,
is when the weather gets extreme, it cycles too much...
leaving it on constant works better.... for me..
In between auto cycles the temp varies too much...
Constant burn... you will use a bag and half, easy, on low... The bigger stoves
are for heat, not necessarily for economy. the P68 that I have, has no problem
chewing up 1-3/4...but there will be a constant heat exiting the stove..

YMMV, Dan

 

[Tonyray]

one thing about the auto setting...
In decent weather, that is a good way to go. But what I find, in a not so greatly insulated house,
is when the weather gets extreme, it cycles too much...
leaving it on constant works better.... for me..
In between auto cycles the temp varies too much...
Constant burn... you will use a bag and half, easy, on low... The bigger stoves
are for heat, not necessarily for economy. the P68 that I have, has no problem
chewing up 1-3/4...but there will be a constant heat exiting the stove..

YMMV, Dan

when i 1st got my P61A, after learning everything i could about it, i spent the first season or 2 trying to figure out how to keep warm and save pellets at the same time... took a while before i gave up the ghost and realized i couldn't do both with my stove..
right off the bat it has the 2nd largest burnpot that harman makes.. take lot of pellets to fill it up.
plus, have a not well insulated house....

I am resolved that i will go thru an average of 4 tons per season....no ifs/and or buts..
spent too many winters with the oil thermostat back down just to save oil and being bundled up a bit.
I wear short sleave shirts in the house now, the stove is keeping 74 degrees and that's just running half blower speed.
burning easyblaze super premiums softwoods which cost me 249.00 ton and bought 4 tons.
my furnace would drink oil like a drunken sailor if i kept it at 74 degrees like my stove soooo,
1,000.00 a year for 24/7 steady pellet heat is fine by me.

 

[P51mustang]

By the way, Hugh....In our private conversation you mentioned creosote build up concerns if you installed a wood stove. You should be aware that even with a pellet stove you'll need to clean out your chimney from top to bottom before the heat season and at the end of it. While it typically isn't that big a deal and is easy depending upon how you do the install, it is necessary to ensure efficient and safe use of your pellet stove.

Some people do it several times per year......I usually do it three times. Usually in early October before the real winter hits, late February, and at the end of the season in late April when I complete a lengthy end of season cleaning of the entire stove. The "kit" for such cleanings are easily found at dealers, hardware stores, on-line, etc. You'll also need a vacuum kit for cleaning the inside of the stove which I typically do every 2-3 weeks depending upon the ash build up in the stove.....There's lots to learn with pellet heat, but once you get it down, it's a snap...

 

[alternativeheat]

With pellet heat generally it's ash that builds up in the venting though, unless the burn is weird or the install incorrectly done. I've never seen creosote in my venting from my P61 even in a low burn. For one thing with the ESP control Harman has kept stack temps high enough to not allow creosote to form.

 

[Tonyray]

With pellet heat generally it's ash that builds up in the venting though, unless the burn is weird or the install incorrectly done. I've never seen creosote in my venting from my P61 even in a low burn. For one thing with the ESP control Harman has kept stack temps high enough to not allow creosote to form.

agree..
my stack at the most will have a light powdery residue at the end of the season.

 

[bags]

With pellet heat generally it's ash that builds up in the venting though, unless the burn is weird or the install incorrectly done. I've never seen creosote in my venting from my P61 even in a low burn. For one thing with the ESP control Harman has kept stack temps high enough to not allow creosote to form.

Yeah, creosote build up and pellets is a non-issue. No worries there. Creosote is usually associated with wood that isn't at ideal moisture content or "wet" / "green" wood which is abundant in the wood burning community or most of what is out there for sale etc;

Some folks think you can drop a tree in May and cut, split, and stack it and it is ready Oct 1st. It's not seasoned and I don't care what kind of wood it is. Some wood like red oak takes a pretty long time to season. Others can season quicker.

So the P61 is a kick ass stove that you can idle down to fit your needs as mentioned above. With that stove and the size of your cabin you are also in the Go Big or Go Home Club. It'll have the capability to roast you out in the ugly frozen tundra times also. You can't go wrong with these P Series really unless you try to heat too much with too small of one. Good Luck!

 

[P51mustang]

I don't get creosote either.....My reference to it was in relation to my suggestion to Hugh via a private conversation to consider a wood stove rather than a pellet stove. He replied with a concern about creosote build up with a wood stove. I mention the routine chimney cleaning of the pellet stove so as to explain that BOTH need cleaning. Albeit one for creosote (wood stove), the other for ash (pellet stove).

One other point, Hugh lives in a location where there are numerous suppliers of excellent pre-cut, pre-split, and pre-seasoned hardwood delivered right to your door for as cheap as $50 per face cord. This is possible since many of these suppliers now are completely mechanized and have ample competition.

 

[alternativeheat]

I don't get creosote either.....My reference to it was in relation to my suggestion to Hugh via a private conversation to consider a wood stove rather than a pellet stove. He replied with a concern about creosote build up with a wood stove. I mention the routine chimney cleaning of the pellet stove so as to explain that BOTH need cleaning. Albeit one for creosote (wood stove), the other for ash (pellet stove).

One other point, Hugh lives in a location where there are numerous suppliers of excellent pre-cut, pre-split, and pre-seasoned hardwood delivered right to your door for as cheap as $50 per face cord. This is possible since many of these suppliers now are completely mechanized and have ample competition.

Well we know that pellets will be way more costly than that but wood generally involves more labor. Plus the chimney fire risk, you only need to live through one of those in your life to get your fill of that action.

 

[Pete Zahria]

you mentioned creosote build up concerns if you installed a wood stove. You should be aware that even with a pellet stove you'll need to clean out your chimney from top to bottom before the heat season and at the end of it.

I have never seen creosote buildup in my chimney....

Dan

 

[P51mustang]

Well we know that pellets will be way more costly than that but wood generally involves more labor. Plus the chimney fire risk, you only need to live through one of those in your life to get your fill of that action.

True that. Chimney fires are no joke....I will say that the labor involved with wood has decreased significantly other than piling it. As I mentioned previous in this thread, there are literally a dozen or so dealers who will bring high quality hardwood right to my garage, shed, or barn door. A few now deliver them in small aluminum open air shipping containers that can be stored easily in the same space one might place a pallet of pellets. They can literally unload them in minutes and place them wherever I want them and thus no piling needed.

All this is due to the mechanization of the entire process. I know of a few who are in this business on a part-time basis or as a retirement gig as it's much less difficult on the body given the processors and various other equipment now available.

One other thing about the chimney fire concern with wood. If I had a wood stove installed, I'd simply sweep the chimney multiple times per year to try and avoid too much creosote buildup.

 

[Tonyray]

one thing about the auto setting...
In decent weather, that is a good way to go. But what I find, in a not so greatly insulated house,
is when the weather gets extreme, it cycles too much...
leaving it on constant works better.... for me..
In between auto cycles the temp varies too much...
Constant burn... you will use a bag and half, easy, on low... The bigger stoves
are for heat, not necessarily for economy. the P68 that I have, has no problem
chewing up 1-3/4...but there will be a constant heat exiting the stove..

YMMV, Dan

what i noticed about constant burn is,
unless the stove is set at or at least close to 75, the dist fan will shut off for long periods of time,
sending your heat out the exhaust.
in auto, when it;s running and all the way down to simmering, the blower keeps running as if to squeeze every last bit of heat from the stove into the living space.. my observation anyways.

 

[ABusWrench]

Room Temp/Auto is all I use. Have tried constant burn several times and I seem to use more pellets that way in my setup. A P43 will run with a lower btu output than the P61, which may help in a smaller area install.

 

[Pete Zahria]

what i noticed about constant burn is,
unless the stove is set at or at least close to 75, the dist fan will shut off for long periods of time,

Not if your toggle switch is on auto.

 

[alternativeheat]

There are times when Stove Temp Auto ( Constant Burn Auto) suits my needs. No fan issue in that mode either. But I do mostly run it in Room Temp Auto. Stove Temp for me works when I want to mix oil heat with pellet heat in the ultra cold days of mid winter and limit my pellet consumption to X amount per day.