How to route chimney in a cape-cod style house

[9986mkoh]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum, but I have heated with wood since I was little. We now have a house that doesn't have a chimney, and we bought an Englander (2200 sq ft model) wood stove from home depot. I have a free source of wood if I just split it, as well as probably a years worth of old hardwood board trimmings to burn, and pin oak pallets. We figure that'll save a good amount of heating money.

Anyway, we need to put in a stainless chimney. We are putting the stove in the basement, as it is really the only spot we have a good spot for it. Plus heat will rise and we can draw air through our current central heat system by just running the blower.

The problem (or maybe not?) I have is running the chimney due the very steep angle of the roof. I have seen that the cap of the chimney should be 2 feet above the nearest point of the roof 10 feet away. For example, if I ran it straight through the house, it'd have to be over 35 feet tall to achieve that. That being said, the current plan is to put the stove a foot or so from the basement wall (block), and run one 45 degree fiting through the wall, and another just as it gets about 5 feet from the side of the house, and straight up from there. I plan on using double or triple wall stainless, if it makes a difference.

I'm looking for some confirmation that this will work, or suggestions on what to do to make it better.

Thanks a lot,
Mike

 

[begreen]

Welcome to hearth.com. Pics and a sketch would help here. Are you sure you couldn't find a good spot on the 1st floor? It's a shame to hide a good fire view in the basement and costly for the extra piping.

 

[9986mkoh]

Welcome to hearth.com. Pics and a sketch would help here. Are you sure you couldn't find a good spot on the 1st floor? It's a shame to hide a good fire view in the basement and costly for the extra piping.

thanks for the quick reply. The only place we could put it is on the 2nd floor, which I think would be a little more difficult to distribute the heat, but doable.

the basement gets a good amount of time spent I it anyway, and especially will with the stove. To be clear, I was planning a 3 foot pipe from the top of the stove, then a 45, then a 7 or sobfoot section, then the other 45, and finish it with about 10 or so feet straight up.

I will post a sketch and picture I the morning. I'm working on getting everything together to install it this weekend.

thanks again,
mike

 

[9986mkoh]

Here is a drawing I made up really quick. The main issue I see is supporting the chimney. The drawing is just about to scale, except the slope of the roof of the house, but it is very close. For reference, the piece at 45 degrees is about 10 feet long.

Any help with this is appreciated!

Thanks.

 

[shoot-straight]

i have a VERY tall, masonary chimney on the one end of my cape. i would assume you could build a similar chase fairly cheap, then run your pipe inside. I think it would look better than 25' of pipe... some people have that around here. you wont need the stainless pipe either. i dont like to the look of a chase covered in siding or stucco, but it will work of course. you can maybe cover it with feau stone or something down the road.

i also echo the sentiments about keeping it out of the basement.

i dont think you will want to run that pipe so short to the ground so close to the house.

 

[9986mkoh]

I really like the idea of a masonry chimney, but it sounds like a 30 foot masonry chimney is going to be pretty expensive compared to stainless. Plus, a big investment like a masonry chimney is something I don't want to do unless I plan on building a house and staying there (which I don't right now, just maybe 5 years or so).

As much as I would like to have it in the living room, there is just nowhere for it to go.

I may end up just having to go with an outdoor boiler or forced air unit.

 

[shoot-straight]

i think you mis-understood. you can build a wood-framed chase for your pipe. then cover it with whatever you want. siding, stucco, feau stone, whatever.

something like this.

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/articles-2/class-a-chimney-systems/class-a-chimney-in-a-chase/)

one more thing- if you dont care about the asthetics of the fire, then an outside wood burning furnace is an awesome choice.

 

[begreen]

First of all, penetrating the wall at an angle should be out. Go through it at 90 degrees if you must. There is no such thing as a 45 elbow for chimney pipe. 30deg. is the maximum angle permitted. I would think hard and creatively about other locations for the stove that bring the chimney straight up through the house if at all possible. You'll get better performance and a cleaner look.

 

[9986mkoh]

i think you mis-understood. you can build a wood-framed chase for your pipe. then cover it with whatever you want. siding, stucco, feau stone, whatever.

something like this.

(broken link removed to http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/articles-2/class-a-chimney-systems/class-a-chimney-in-a-chase/)

one more thing- if you dont care about the asthetics of the fire, then an outside wood burning furnace is an awesome choice.

Oh, ok I understand. I wasn't familiar with the terminology, but that does look good and not too expensive (although I don't really care about the looks)

Secondly, I do care about seeing the fire, which was the first reason I wanted a stove over an outdoor burner in the first place.

45s are sold, I don't know how uncommon they are though.

This being said, I'll probably just go with an outdoor burner because of the issues. I really don't want to cut holes through 2 or 3 floors and the roof and deal with guarding and clearances everywhere.

Thank you very much!

Mike

 

[begreen]

There is a 45 but not for wood stove class A chimney. The folks in the boiler room can help with that. Note that it is much more complicated to do an OWB correctly and often less efficient.

 

[9986mkoh]

Yeah I understand that. However, I have a basically unlimited supply of pine that would otherwise just be burned outside by somebody anyway. I'm still considering my options for a stove though.

 

[9986mkoh]

Well, considering the options and researching further, we are still going with a wood stove. It's more efficient, and the only real downside for us is not being able to burn the pine. We are going to put it on our 1st floor in the living room on a hearth pad, then do a through the wall chimney. We're not worried about the appearance of the metal chimney, and are hoping it won't be that big of a performace difference than having a chase. We will likely get the duravent SS triple wall chimney for Home Depot at $85/3ft and it is an Englander 30-NCH stove.

And realistically, if it is a huge advantage in this case to run the chimney straight up through the house, please let me know. I'd be willing to do it if it is a really big difference. In the even of a chimney fire, would it be any better either way? I know, probably some silly questions, but I'd like to do this right and understand the principles.

Doing a through the wall installation seems pretty easy, but I have a couple questions about the best way to do it..;.

1. Since I need a 90 to get through the wall, is it better to put the 90 close to the stove, or give it a run a few feet up, or is there no difference?
2. Also, I need to clear the 1 foot overhang of the roof at the top (the chimney is a total of 23 feet from stove to 2 feet above peak of the roof. Is it better to make the original horizontal run through the wall a little bit longer to accommodate this, or use a 30 degree fitting just before the eve?

Thanks for the help. Any suggestions pertaining to the materials I'm planning on using would also be appreciated.

 

[begreen]

Put the wall thimble a few feet above the stovetop.

Cut through the gable and box it or use a brand chimney that sells 30deg elbows for outside use.

 

[firefighterjake]

I have an outside chimney in a Cape. You may lose some heat that would have come off the stove pipe and chimney running inside, but honestly the bulk of your heat will come from the stove. About 90% of my heating comes from wood heat ... possibly a bit more even.

Originally I was also concerned with the possible draft problem and excessive creosote ... neither have been problematic. In the Spring and Fall I may have to open a nearby window a crack when the outside temp is relatively warm ... say 50 degrees or so.

It may sound stupid, but one of my original concerns was the look of all that metal on the side of the house looking a bit garish. Through plain dumb luck though ... or rather the angle of my house to the road and lot you really cannot see much of the chimney from the front yard so I never bothered to build a chase around it.

One positive thing with an outside chimney ... put a T connection on the outside ... sweeping your stove from the ground can then be done easily, safely and quickly.

 

[firefighterjake]

To answer some of your questions ...

There really is no difference in my opinion with an exterior or interior chimney. Some could say an interior chimney stays warmer and will make less creosote over time ... but you could also say that burning seasoned wood, running in the Goldilocks Zone and checking and sweeping the chimney in a regular basis is more important than how you site the chimney.

I would come off the stove and go up a few feet before making the turn and transitioning through the wall ... I'm thinking it may help with the draft a bit.

I've seen folks deal with the overhang by either notching the overhang so the Class A chimney has a straight shot ... or folks go up and then do a slight jog in the chimney near the overhang before going up a few more feet.

By the way ... you'll still be able to burn pine in a woodstove ... as long as it is seasoned.

 

[9986mkoh]

Thanks for the answers and suggestions. I am definitely going to have a tee just outside the wall for cleaning. I'm also actually leaning toward cutting the overhang and giving the chimney the straight shot up (and also considering how expensive 30 degree bends are).

One thing I am going to have to change though, is the stove I wanted. I like the extra capacity and heating potential of the Englander 30-nc over the 13-nc, but the extra length of hearth pad is a problem. I believe the 30 calls for 50" x 39" (which alone is a large distance out from the wall), but I already picked up a 48" x 48" hearth pad I was hoping to use. Plus that extra 6" from the wall makes it quite protruding into the room.

One question for you firefighterjake, do you have your fireplace near the middle of your house on the end, so the chimney can run just about all the way up along the house? I'm looking at how much chimney I can leave free standing past the side of the house while being able to maintain 2' clearance of the peak.

Again, sorry if some of the questions are dumb, they're just some things I haven't found when searching yet.

 

[begreen]

Make sure the hearth pad has an R=2.0 rating. The 13NC has stiff insulation requirements. If that is a problem another stove to consider that has easier hearth pad requirements yet a square firebox is the True North TN19, or the Englander Madison.

 

[9986mkoh]

Yeah, I just read my hearth pad doesn't have a 2.0 R equivalent. Where can I find a TN19? I didn't even com e up with any results with pricing when I did a search on google. And same with the Englander Madison.

Is it very difficult/expensive to make my own 2.0 R equivalent hearth pad? Or could I build up something under the one I have? It's the tractor supply 48 x 48 type 2 hearth pad, but I believe it still falls short at around 1.5 ultimate R value.

I know I really need at least the 13-nc, and the 30-nc would be even better...but it's just so much space in a not so large living area.

 

[begreen]

The Englander Madison is new. Last I heard one had to special order it via a big box store like Home Depot. The Pacific Energy True North TN19 can be ordered through any PE dealer. It's about $800.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts ...

There really isn't any dumb question ... we all have to learn somewhere and the folks here are pretty friendly, helpful folks.

Making your own hearth will maybe take a weekend ... but the flip side is the savings, good look, you get a hearth at the proper R level AND I guarantee it will be a source of pride.

My stove is on an outside wall ... side wall ... maybe5-6 feet from being in the "center" of the house so most of the class a pipe is braced against the house.

 

[9986mkoh]

where can I find install info for the Englander Madison? I just want to check the hearth pad requirements for space. Then ill call my home depot and see what they say.

 

[9986mkoh]

Well, after moving everything around today and looking at where I can put a stove, I have decided to put it in the basement on the wall centerline. I'm making stand-off brackets at work to space the chimney brackets away from the house 15", thereby getting around cutting the gable or using bends once it exits the wall.

I am going to pick up a stove and all the vent piping tomorrow evening. I found 3 new pieces of 3 foot duravent on craigslist for 40 apiece, and the rest will be new from home depot. I'm stopping to look at a 1 year old Basic Ideal Steel Woodstock stove first, which includes $600 in new pipe, a through the wall kit, and all other piping for $1000. If it looks good I'll be getting that. Otherwise, it is the 30-NCH from home depot. The hearth problems are eliminated since it is on a concrete floor by a block wall.

Plus, from this location I can best circulate the heat using the ductwork that already draws from my basement. Total chimney height will be around 29 feet from the top of the stove.

Thanks a lot for the help so far, I'm sure I'll have a couple questions as I'm doing the install this weekend, weather permitting. The reason for the need to install relatively quickly is we need to heat an additional 600 square feet (upstairs) that we usually don't due to a car accident in the family, so we will have an extra person in the house.

 

[shoot-straight]

others will say it if i dont- all that concrete and block will suck up heat like crazy. install in a basement is fine, but i would work to insulate it asap. otherwise you will lose ALOT of heat. of course you may still have enough heat for the house as well, its just wont be nearly as efficient as it could be. my masonry chimney sits on an outside wall- i know it is a heat drain big time, and its not that big.

glad to hear you have settled on a plan and the ideal steel seems to be a nice heater. good luck to you.

 

[begreen]

Be sure that you match the DuraVent chimney type. There are two: DuraPlus which is triple-wall and DuraTech which is double-wall. DuraTech is the more expensive product and slimmer by 2" in diameter.

 

[9986mkoh]

Thanks for that! I was planning on the triple wall since the diameter won't be too much of an issue.

I actually had a local wood stove guy come to my house today and look at it and give me a price, with one of his stoves.

It includes the stove (Quadrafire Cumberland Gap), hearth, and all installation and materials for $3400.

How reasonable does that sound? I am surprised to find, however, that the Englander 13-NCH still has lower smoke emission. How much that means in the end, I really can't say either.

Is the higher end stove really worth it? I mean don't get me wrong, it looks beautiful and you can see and feel the quality...but is there any reason other than looks to be spending an extra $1550 for the stove over the Englander (he is asking $2200 for the stove itself? I don't know about longevity either, considering the same care. Any input on these concerns is appreciated!

Thanks,
Mike

EDIT: sorry for being off topic, too. It probably would have been better to start a new thread.