How to stop runaway fire/chimney fire

[Tahoe]

Hi everyone,

I just read Jay's thread about his chimney fire/runaway fire. As we inch closer to delivery of our stove, I'm trying to prepare for potential emergencies. Obviously, prevention is the key, and I'll plan to burn dry wood, have a professional and certified installation, follow all recommendations in the manual, keep the chimney well swept, fire extinguisher in the room, etc. I've searched online and recommendations are all over the map. Open vs closed doors, water vs no water, baking soda, sand, etc.

Still, if I do get a runaway fire, what is the best course of action? Bypass the Cat? Is there a super-secret way to obstruct the secondary air intake?

If its a chimney fire, same course of action? Bypass the cat? Damper fully closed?

Are the Chimfex sticks any good in a stove that has the secondary air intake (Woodstock Progress Hybrid).

Is there already a dedicated thread to this?

Thanks everyone,
Adam

 

[Woody Stover]

Lotta threads on runaway stoves, but they don't apply to a cat stove, and I don't think to a hybrid either. I think all you do is close the air and the fire goes out.

 

[Tahoe]

Lotta threads on runaway stoves, but they don't apply to a cat stove, and I don't think to a hybrid either. I think all you do is close the air and the fire goes out.

I thought you can't close the air supply off entirely in a hybrid?

 

[bholler]

Lotta threads on runaway stoves, but they don't apply to a cat stove, and I don't think to a hybrid either. I think all you do is close the air and the fire goes out.

There are plenty of cat stoves that can have problems with overfireing.

 

[bholler]

Hi everyone,

I just read Jay's thread about his chimney fire/runaway fire. As we inch closer to delivery of our stove, I'm trying to prepare for potential emergencies. Obviously, prevention is the key, and I'll plan to burn dry wood, have a professional and certified installation, follow all recommendations in the manual, keep the chimney well swept, fire extinguisher in the room, etc. I've searched online and recommendations are all over the map. Open vs closed doors, water vs no water, baking soda, sand, etc.

Still, if I do get a runaway fire, what is the best course of action? Bypass the Cat? Is there a super-secret way to obstruct the secondary air intake?

If its a chimney fire, same course of action? Bypass the cat? Damper fully closed?

Are the Chimfex sticks any good in a stove that has the secondary air intake (Woodstock Progress Hybrid).

Is there already a dedicated thread to this?

Thanks everyone,
Adam

For an overfire in your case bypass the cat and open the door. This will flood the stove with cool fresh air lowering the temp quickly. For a chimney fire close the air down call the fire Dept. And if need be empty the fire extinguisher into the stove. Do not use water sand or anything the chimfex sticks may work or may not

 

[Tahoe]

For an overfire in your case bypass the cat and open the door. This will flood the stove with cool fresh air lowering the temp quickly. For a chimney fire close the air down call the fire Dept. And if need be empty the fire extinguisher into the stove. Do not use water sand or anything the chimfex sticks may work or may not

Thank you much!

 

[mark cline]

I just saw an old episode of Yukon Men and there was a house that had an active chimney fire going. A local man took a full roll of paper towels and soaked it full of water then threw it into the stove then shuts the door , it worked . He had a note of caution that when you open the door you could have a flash fire as air rushes in . Not what I would recommend , but in a panic , it’s another possible solution instead of letting the house burn down .

 

[Woody Stover]

I thought you can't close the air supply off entirely in a hybrid?

You can have a runaway in a secondary stove if you get too much wood gassing. Since the PH does have secondary burn, it might be a good idea to have a way ahead of time to block the secondary air intake if needed. I'm guessing runaway secondary might be less likely to happen in the PH though. I think the air might cut lower than a straight secondary stove, since there's a cat to clean up a smoldering burn. I'm not sure, just guessing here. Now, if you load the stove full, light it and let it burn wide open to where the whole load is gassing heavily, you might not be able to quickly snuff it by cutting the air, I don't know.

There are plenty of cat stoves that can have problems with overfireing.

He asked about a runaway fire. Have you ever seen a runaway fire in a cat stove?
Only cat stoves I've run are a Dutchwest, Woodstock Keystone and Fireview, and the Buck 91; All cats where you had no flame in the box when the air was cut, so no runaway fires.
But since you mentioned overfiring...what were the "plenty of cat stoves" that had problems with an overfire? What overfired..stove top too hot, glowing stove parts, or what. Were the overfiring cat stoves on chimneys not within draft specs, or what happened?

 

[moresnow]

Were the overfiring cat stoves on chimneys not within draft specs, or what happened?

Compromised loading door gaskets can cause trouble in any style stove. Just something to consider.

 

[mar13]

I just saw an old episode of Yukon Men and there was a house that had an active chimney fire going. A local man took a full roll of paper towels and soaked it full of water then threw it into the stove then shuts the door , it worked . He had a note of caution that when you open the door you could have a flash fire as air rushes in . Not what I would recommend , but in a panic , it’s another possible solution instead of letting the house burn down .

A friend who volunteers with the local fire Dept says they throw wet newspaper into the stove.

 

[thunderhead]

If you have an OAK could you run outside and smother the inlet with say... wrapped tin foil? Or would the stove still get enough air from little leaks?

 

[spudman99]

When I had a small chimney fire 2 years ago, I threw glasses of water onto the fire in my traditional fireplace that was blazing hot. Immediate steam up the chimney doused the fire effectively. Took 2 glasses or about 32 oz to set it down. Still called the Fire department as a pre-caution. Hated to bother the Volunteers during March madness but they are just super good folks. We can never thank your volunteer firefighters enough - most are unpaid.

Just my experience as all fires are unique.

 

[mark cline]

Glasses of water , I think would cause it to flash steam and blow back out. Wet paper towels or wet newspapers would steam less at the beginning, allowing you to get the door closed.

 

[TradEddie]

I think people need to be clear about the two very different scenarios in the subject line. A chimney fire is potentially a life and property threatening situation. A runaway stove should not be a life threatening situation in a correctly installed modern stove.

A runaway stove is a visually scary situation and the best and easiest remedy (opening stove door) is not for the faint of heart. There should be no reason to risk personal injury to stop a runaway stove. Personally I've tried two of the options suggested above (door opening, modifying inlet to allow full closure of secondary air) and shutting off air is a very, very slow solution.

A chimney fire on the other hand is far more serious, and for some, the risk of injury may be justified. I will leave recommended actions to the experts, but heed the advice of those who caution against throwing water into a raging stove. A 900F stove is very different to an open fireplace.

TE

 

[Dieselhead]

Water turns to steam with a 1700:1 ratio. It will do a good job of snuffing out a chimney fire if done correctly. A option I have not seen posted is using a ABC Dry Chem extinguisher. I’d open your bypass (if applicable) crack the door and shoot the dry chem into the stove. Not full blast but enough to snuff the fire. The draft will carry the powder up the chimney working on the chimney fire as well. CO2 is a better, less mess option but those may be hard to find at your local hardware store.

 

[bholler]

Water turns to steam with a 1700:1 ratio. It will do a good job of snuffing out a chimney fire if done correctly. A option I have not seen posted is using a ABC Dry Chem extinguisher. I’d open your bypass (if applicable) crack the door and shoot the dry chem into the stove. Not full blast but enough to snuff the fire. The draft will carry the powder up the chimney working on the chimney fire as well. CO2 is a better, less mess option but those may be hard to find at your local hardware store.

Co2 won't work it will just put it out temporarily. There will probably be enough heat left there to reignite any remaining fuel in the chimney ice the co2 clears which doesn't take long in a chimney. Use a dry chemical extinguisher and empty it.

 

[firefighterjake]

CO2 is also not rated for Class A fires.

Never had a chimney fire in my own home where I had to kill the fire . . . mainly because I am a huge believer in prevention (heck, it's what I do for a living -- teaching fire prevention). Burn seasoned wood. Check and maintain the chimney. Burn at the proper temps . . . do this and you should never have an issue.

If for some odd reason you have a chimney fire AND want to kill the fire I've subscribed to the philosophy of either using a cup or two of water, wet newspaper or ABC dry chemical extinguisher on the hot coals to quickly snuff out the fire AND calling the local fire department.

Trust me . . . the local fire department would rather be called, show up and discover the fire is out (figure maybe a half hour or so of time tops) than to not call 911, you think you have the fire put out and in fact hours later awaken to the smell of smoke in the home when you discover the fire was still burning in the chimney or had caught some nearby wooden framing on fire (now the fire department will be there a lot longer than half an hour).

 

[TradEddie]

Water turns to steam with a 1700:1 ratio. It will do a good job of snuffing out a chimney fire if done correctly

Sure, but what is the "correct"way i.e. safe, effective and non-damaging to stove? I've been just feet away when someone threw a cup of water on a grease fire, and while I realize that's a different situation, I would be reluctant to throw water on anything hotter or more enclosed than a campfire.

TE

 

[bholler]

Sure, but what is the "correct"way i.e. safe, effective and non-damaging to stove? I've been just feet away when someone threw a cup of water on a grease fire, and while I realize that's a different situation, I would be reluctant to throw water on anything hotter or more enclosed than a campfire.

TE

Yes there is just to much risk adding water

 

[Woodfire2019]

My apologies if this is a stupid question, but what a runaway fire actually look like?

 

[Woody Stover]

My apologies if this is a stupid question, but what a runaway fire actually look like?

What stove do you have? (You can click your user name in the black stripe above and add it to your signature...you'll get more responses to your questions from others with the same stove.)
If you have a secondary-burn stove AKA non-cat and get too much wood burning on a fresh load, the secondary will be robust and get even more wood burning. If your stove doesn't have good air control, you can't stop it at that point and stove temp climbs too high. The fire has "run away." As others have said, that's different than a chimney fire, which happens when you ignite creosote deposits in your chimney.

 

[Woodfire2019]

What stove do you have? (You can click your user name in the black stripe above and add it to your signature...you'll get more responses to your questions from others with the same stove.)
If you have a secondary-burn stove AKA non-cat and get too much wood burning on a fresh load, the secondary will be robust and get even more wood burning. If your stove doesn't have good air control, you can't stop it at that point and stove temp climbs too high. The fire has "run away." As others have said, that's different than a chimney fire, which happens when you ignite creosote deposits in your chimney.

It is MF Fire Nova. It is a catalytic stove. Haven't seen this before, but maybe because it is a catalytic stove.

 

[Woody Stover]

It is MF Fire Nova. It is a catalytic stove. Haven't seen this before, but maybe because it is a catalytic stove.

Right. Catalytic stoves let you cut the air lower, since the cat will clean up a smoldering fire. To meet emission regs, non-cats won't let you close the air as far since that would kill the secondary and result in a dirty burn.

 

[bholler]

What stove do you have? (You can click your user name in the black stripe above and add it to your signature...you'll get more responses to your questions from others with the same stove.)
If you have a secondary-burn stove AKA non-cat and get too much wood burning on a fresh load, the secondary will be robust and get even more wood burning. If your stove doesn't have good air control, you can't stop it at that point and stove temp climbs too high. The fire has "run away." As others have said, that's different than a chimney fire, which happens when you ignite creosote deposits in your chimney.

It isn't really about the air control on the stove. It is almost always due to excessive draft or bad gaskets etc. If everything is in good working order and your draft is within spec the stove should be controlable. If there is to much draft even cat stoves can overfire. And they can really overfire.

 

[Woody Stover]

It isn't really about the air control on the stove. It is almost always due to excessive draft or bad gaskets etc. If everything is in good working order and your draft is within spec the stove should be controlable. If there is to much draft even cat stoves can overfire. And they can really overfire.

This T5 I got my SIL, sucks like a black hole on only 15' of stack. I doubt the chimney is producing excessive draft, although I haven't actually measured it. All I know is that the same chimney, with the Dutchwest 2460 cat stove on it, I could slow the burn way down by closing the air all the way.
My other SIL has a used Woodstock Fireview on 21' of stack, so I assume it has fairly strong draft. Even though the stove has some air leaks, and it's an easy breather to begin with, you can still kill the burn if you cut the air.
Door gasket is good on the T5 and the ash dump isn't leaking. They just let a lot of air into the box of this stove, by design.
You have to load the stove right (load dense woods like White Oak, Hickory or BL that won't gas too fast, in the right places in the box,) and you really need to stay on top of the startup. cutting air so you don't get too much wood burning, if you hope to keep it under 700. You can't reel the burn back in if you get too much wood gassing, even if you close the air and flue damper all the way. I put in a second flue damper, and that helps a little...on just 15'!
She's been burning small loads, 4-6 splits, all winter since it's been mild. The stove really can't get away from her with a small load like that.
I don't think there's any way a novice burner would keep the stove under 800 on a full load. But maybe with the wet wood that novices generally burn, it's not a problem.
But yeah, maybe the other stoves you've seen have better air control in most cases, and the PE Spectrums are outliers.
With some of the new 2020 stoves, if they rely on giving it more air at the minimum setting so it can run cleaner, I'd think a runaway is even more likely. If they stick a cat in there, maybe they can leave the minimum setting as it was instead of opening it up more, and the burn is more controllable..?