husky 61 with what bar/chain combo? firewood!

[WoodButcher80]

hey guys, about to place an order with Baileys , but wanted to confirm what you think of my selections.

i have a first generation husqvarna model 61 . 145lb compression . its tuned and ready to go .

i only cut trees already on the ground, and from time to time ones that are choking other trees. i cross-cut 90% of the time , no ripping. i have about 15yrs of firewood experience, and am always cutting sugar maples, hickories, cherries, oaks and beeches.

i picked a 16" long , 3/8" pitch (.375) .058 gauge bar from oregon company
link: HERE
it has replaceable tips and its very durable i hear.

for the chain .... WELL , i really wanted to try a full chisel, but decided not to because a lot of my wood is sitting on the ground already and has some dirt where it touches the ground on the bottom . i dont want to dull the heck out of the blade from hitting some dirt. also, i cut about once a week for about an hour, so its nothing crazy where i need the speed.

i decided on a oregon semi chisel .058 gauge chain
link: HERE . if i need to ill try a full chisel down the road, but i know how i get the logs laying on the ground so i decided not to.

these items are still in my 'cart' as i will finalize my purchases in a couple days..

any opinions? i know we could debate gauges and so on, but i went with the .058 husky standard to keep it simple.

what you think???

 

[smokinj]

sound like you know what you want!(would be nice with the .050)

 

[LLigetfa]

Depends on what you call dirt. I have fine clay soils and the top foot or so is centuries of decay so there is no real real bad grit in it. I use a full chisel. Used Oregon all my life but recently switched to Stihl and am impressed with how well it olds an edge.

If you are careful, you needn't actually hit the dirt on the log. If the dirt is only from where it is in contact with the soil, cut from the clean side and don't let the saw go all the way through. You are attacking the dirty part from the inside and the bark will let go without having to be cut all the way through. I have a very stiff broom like what a trackman uses to clear snow from a frog and will sweep the log if in doubt.

 

[WoodButcher80]

the only dirt i encounter is years of dead foliage, and real rich soil . . im in ohio , no silt loam where i am, so sand isnt an issue. just good old planting soil and dead maple leaves. . . to be honest LL , the chain is my toughest decision since i really wanna try that full chisel, but everythign i read says 'clean wood' . my wood is clean, no rocks or anything in it, and besides i have a log lift to pull em from the ground. .. just not going to use it 100% of the time. the cutting i do is like every other weekend woodsman : sees a fallen hardwood, examines that theres no rot, tries to get it off the ground to not get the chain in the dirt, and cuts it ! most of the time i rotate the log anyhoo before cutting all the way through. maybe cut the occasional standing tree, but i like to leave them alone unless theyre preventing other crowns from getting sunlight. so... now what do ya think? (aside from me being crazy!)

 

[WoodButcher80]

heres a few old hunting pics i found of a typical forest floor for me to cut on to give you an idea . click on em to make bigger...

 

[LLigetfa]

Go with the full chisel. They are sooo much faster. Give the Stihl chain a try. With my Oregon chains I would have to sharpen them about every time I added chain oil which was about every 3 or 4 tanks of gas. Not that I used the oil as milestone but that's my recollection. I always go by the feel of the cutting and would procrastinate until oil fill-up time which is also when I clean the bar and adjust the chain.

The last 12 cord I bucked up, I started on a new Stihl chain and only remember sharpening it twice. In my younger days I had good eyesight and I'd touch up a chain on every tank-up without giving it a thought. Now I have to clean off my prescription safety glasses to see what I'm doing which is a PITA.

 

[Gooserider]

Go with the full chisel. They are sooo much faster. Give the Stihl chain a try. With my Oregon chains I would have to sharpen them about every time I added chain oil which was about every 3 or 4 tanks of gas. Not that I used the oil as milestone but that's my recollection. I always go by the feel of the cutting and would procrastinate until oil fill-up time which is also when I clean the bar and adjust the chain.

The last 12 cord I bucked up, I started on a new Stihl chain and only remember sharpening it twice. In my younger days I had good eyesight and I'd touch up a chain on every tank-up without giving it a thought. Now I have to clean off my prescription safety glasses to see what I'm doing which is a PITA.

I agree with the full chisel, but not with a lot of the rest of what you say...

1. If you are getting 3-4 tanks of gas to a tank of oil, you are not lubing anywhere near enough - you should be using one tank of gas to about 7/8 of a tank of oil! At the end of a tank of gas, you should have just enough oil left in the tank to be sure you hadn't run out of oil first...

2. ALWAYS touch up the chain after EVERY tank of gas! - It is faster and easier to keep the chain sharp doing it that way, as all you really need is 2-3 strokes per tooth, almost just honing it... If you let it get dull, it overworks the saw and you have to take a lot more metal off to get it back to sharp...

3. I mostly just need to blow the little bit of dust off my poly-carb progressives when I finish a tank of gas, but I also wear a logging helmet with a screen on it that stops 99.9% of the crap from even reaching my glasses.

Gooserider

 

[LLigetfa]

Gooserider,
I'm guessing you don't know my saw. I suspect the ratio of gas to chain oil fill-ups would vary by brand and model, what you are doing, and by how hard you run the saw. Also, I top up the gas on the first sputter, never letting it stall from fuel starvation so the tank never empties. If I let it run out of gas, it takes a lot of pulls to start again.

I tend to set my mixture rich so that it only gets happy under a load. With higher revs light limbing and more idling, I get about 2 tanks of gas to one oil fill.

I sweat like a pig summer and winter and my nose runs constantly when I work so between dripping sweat on the inside of the lenses and the nostril blows, my progressives get pretty dirty. Progressives have too small a sweet spot at the bottom edge.

 

[Gooserider]

Gooserider,
I'm guessing you don't know my saw. I suspect the ratio of gas to chain oil fill-ups would vary by brand and model, what you are doing, and by how hard you run the saw. Also, I top up the gas on the first sputter, never letting it stall from fuel starvation so the tank never empties. If I let it run out of gas, it takes a lot of pulls to start again.

I tend to set my mixture rich so that it only gets happy under a load. With higher revs light limbing and more idling, I get about 2 tanks of gas to one oil fill.

I sweat like a pig summer and winter and my nose runs constantly when I work so between dripping sweat on the inside of the lenses and the nostril blows, my progressives get pretty dirty. Progressives have too small a sweet spot at the bottom edge.

Well I will admit I don't know your saw, but this is the old rule of thumb I was taught back when using saws that didn't have those new fangled automatic oilers - (It was a rule on how much you needed to use your thumb, stroking the manual oiler pump... ;-P )

The basic concept is pretty simple and logical when you think about it... The saw makers are always trying to keep their saws as light and as compact as possible given the other design constraints they are dealing with - It makes no sense for them to put an oil tank on the saw that is bigger than needed for one tank of gas - if you're filling the gas, it's no big deal to fill the oil at the same time, so why make the oil tank bigger, and carry more weight than needed?

My procedure is to run the saw dry every time, (unless I'm going to drop a tree, which ALWAYS rates a fillup) as I like to store it that way between uses, and have never found it to make much difference to starting (can't get much less than 1-2 pulls :coolgrin: ) and I find that if I fill the gas tank up all the way, I run out with less oil left than I like, so my preference is to only put in about 7/8 of a gas tank...

As to my glasses they are big lens progressives - I don't want to deal with the hassle and expense of a seperate pair of safety glasses, so I always get the largest polycarbonate lenses I can, which gives me pretty good protection - not as good as an "official" pair with side shields and all that, but pretty good and I ALWAYS have them on - seems like a good compromise... They do collect a lot of sweat but I deal - I also generally wear a very absorbent headband when working which helps a lot - even under the logging hat...

Gooserider

 

[computeruser]

I see no problem with the 2gas/1oil fill-up ratio. It all depends on max oiler output, bar length, and whatnot. Particularly in the case of saws capable of pulling longer bars, the output (theoretically) should be adequate for 1gas/1oil for the longest possible bar when set at max, so if you're running a shorter bar then there is no reason that you shouldn't dial your oil back.

I've never made a precise study of it because I top off oil and gas at the same time, but 2/1 is probably a fair oil consumption rate for a saw with a bar at the shorter end of the "recommended bar length" scale, such as the 16" bar you are running. I've got saws that run closer to 1:1, and some that run happily at 3:1. It all depends on the saw, the bar length, and whether you're getting enough oil out there. If you are, then who cares how many tanks of fuel you get out of it?


As for the chain recommendations, I see no reason that you shouldn't consider running round chisel chain for the cutting you describe. Buy a couple loops of both types and see what works best for you. The "dirty" logs that are being spoken of are usually those that have been skidded, piled up with debris, have mud caked in the bark, or have been otherwise subjected to extreme dirt conditions. Simply laying on the forest floor does not necessarily put a log into the "dirty" category. I've even had satisfactory results (2 tanks before sharpening) with Baileys 30-series when cutting up log jams made of construction debris, fallen trees, and mounds of sediment.

 

[LLigetfa]

I see no reason that you shouldn't consider running round chisel chain for the cutting you describe.

When I said full chisel, I mean square, not round. I worked as a saw hand on several pipeline construction jobs where they skidded through mud and did all sorts of cleanup work where dozers just pushed the stuff down and ran over them. I used a round chain on the real dirty stuff but for felling and bucking, I swear by the square chain.

 

[Gooserider]

Perhaps clarification is needed... I'm not sure everyone is on the same page in their terminology...

There seem to be three main styles of chain cutter, and two ways of sharpening, and it can get confusing. :-S

Chain has three main types, determined by looking at the outside surface of the tooth...

Chippper - the outside profile of the tooth is rounded, it looks sort of like they made the tooth by cutting a shape out of flat stock and bending the top over.

Semi-chisel - the profile is in between chipper and chisel - it's more square, but the corner is still rounded

Chisel - The profile is a sharp hard angle, essentially a square corner - the tooth looks more like it was cast or machined into that shape. (Note, I'm sure that all the types are made in a more complex way than I've mentioned, just saying what it LOOKS like...)

All three chains are most commonly seen being sharpened by use of a round file or grinding wheel - easy, low cost, and reasonably effective. This can be seen on the inside edge of the tooth that will follow a curved shape.

However some people do what is referred to as a square cut or square grind on full chisel chain where they use a special grinder or flat file to cut a square edged cutting surface that sort of mirrors the outside tooth profile. It's a trickier thing to learn and do, but it's proponents claim that it gives the ultimate level of cutting performance, and holds it's edge better than round filed chisel... Mostly seen among the pro-logger types and racing saw guys...

Usually a square-ground chisel is called a "square chisel", and a round filed one is either called a plain chisel, or possibly "round chisel"

Gooserider

 

[LLigetfa]

Mostly seen among the pro-logger types and racing saw guys...

Sorry for the nomenclature faux pas. I was using a chainsaw long before I could spell chainsaw. Didn't learn the nomenclature in school.

The only racing we did was to have enough wood down before the skidder got back. We even used to run with the butt of the tree to get the butts close enough to get several in one choker.

I've never seen a square full chisel chain filed with anything but a round file. Guess we're not sophisticated like some cultured folk.

 

[smokinj]

If you can square file good you need to be raceing with it! 100 bucks and up is what they are worth for that kind of chain! (square file)I have yet to see anyone pull it off yet.Now espn 2 and stihl will be doing the logging thang this weekend you will see them all running that square chain.Loggers use more of a hook on the cutters
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/timbersports/news/story?id=3289461

 

[computeruser]

I see no reason that you shouldn't consider running round chisel chain for the cutting you describe.

When I said full chisel, I mean square, not round. I worked as a saw hand on several pipeline construction jobs where they skidded through mud and did all sorts of cleanup work where dozers just pushed the stuff down and ran over them. I used a round chain on the real dirty stuff but for felling and bucking, I swear by the square chain.

No argument on the square stuff. I usually buy it square, file it by hand a few times, and by the time my angles start getting messed up I have lost interest and I turn it round-ground on the grinder and run it out that way.

 

[Gooserider]

Mostly seen among the pro-logger types and racing saw guys...

Sorry for the nomenclature faux pas. I was using a chainsaw long before I could spell chainsaw. Didn't learn the nomenclature in school.

The only racing we did was to have enough wood down before the skidder got back. We even used to run with the butt of the tree to get the butts close enough to get several in one choker.

I've never seen a square full chisel chain filed with anything but a round file. Guess we're not sophisticated like some cultured folk.

No biggie - it just seemed like a good idea to try and clarify what people were talking about...

There's a lot of talk about the square filed stuff on ArboristSite, but I'm not sure how many actually use it that way on a regular basis - the grinders that can do it are extremely expensive - on the order of about a grand, vs. $300 for the better round grinders (or 29.95 for the plastic POS from HF) - Or someone is just coming out with a hand filing jig that takes a special (expensive) file, and will be costing around $100 - a round filing guide is well under $20...

While I have never tried a square ground chain, (wouldn't mind doing so) I'm quite prepared to believe it's better, but not sure it's THAT much better...

Gooserider

 

[downeast]

I agree with the full chisel, but not with a lot of the rest of what you say...
2. ALWAYS touch up the chain after EVERY tank of gas! - It is faster and easier to keep the chain sharp doing it that way, as all you really need is 2-3 strokes per tooth, almost just honing it... If you let it get dull, it overworks the saw and you have to take a lot more metal off to get it back to sharp...
3. I mostly just need to blow the little bit of dust off my poly-carb progressives when I finish a tank of gas, but I also wear a logging helmet with a screen on it that stops 99.9% of the crap from even reaching my glasses.
Gooserider

Goose you have got to cease giving "expert" advice, kind of like the former and famous Elk. Sometimes you're right on target, but this is not good advice for most of the occasional chainsaw users here and yourself. Hey, WTH are "poly carb progressives" ? Some kind of new left wing political party ?

Full chisel is NOT recommended for normal mixed cutting, anytime. Most professionals and firewood harvesters use semi-chisel.

Full chisel sharpening is difficult to master by hand or machine; getting the right edge is an art. The file ( or wheel ) is square. You need some experience to get it right.

Full chisel chain dulls quickly in any kind of grit or dirt in the wood----like most of what we do in the woodlands at the stump.
No wonder you need to sharpen with every tank of fuel !

Sharpening: with experience ( yes , experience ) you sharpen when the chain needs it. No 'rule', just look at how the chain is cutting: are you getting solid chips ? Is the chain "pulling" the saw through the cuts ? Seeing dust ? Then you touch up the chain. Depends on the species, on the quality of the logs. Sure, if all you cut are piles of delivered logs that were certainly skidded on dirt, full chisel chains will dull in one tank or before.

For most of us here in the Northeast and Midwest, SEMI-CHISEL chains are the norm. Pacific Northwest loggers use full chisel ( and also skip chain ) since they're harvesting big clean trees 3 feet DBH or more.

I'm sure you'll have a long long long response that will not agree. Fine.....

 

[smokinj]

I agree with the full chisel, but not with a lot of the rest of what you say...
2. ALWAYS touch up the chain after EVERY tank of gas! - It is faster and easier to keep the chain sharp doing it that way, as all you really need is 2-3 strokes per tooth, almost just honing it... If you let it get dull, it overworks the saw and you have to take a lot more metal off to get it back to sharp...
3. I mostly just need to blow the little bit of dust off my poly-carb progressives when I finish a tank of gas, but I also wear a logging helmet with a screen on it that stops 99.9% of the crap from even reaching my glasses.
Gooserider

Goose you have got to cease giving "expert" advice, kind of like the former and famous Elk. Sometimes you're right on target, but this is not good advice for most of the occasional chainsaw users here and yourself. Hey, WTH are "poly carb progressives" ? Some kind of new left wing political party ?

Full chisel is NOT recommended for normal mixed cutting, anytime. Most professionals and firewood harvesters use semi-chisel.

Full chisel sharpening is difficult to master by hand or machine; getting the right edge is an art. The file ( or wheel ) is square. You need some experience to get it right.

Full chisel chain dulls quickly in any kind of grit or dirt in the wood----like most of what we do in the woodlands at the stump.
No wonder you need to sharpen with every tank of fuel !

Sharpening: with experience ( yes , experience ) you sharpen when the chain needs it. No 'rule', just look at how the chain is cutting: are you getting solid chips ? Is the chain "pulling" the saw through the cuts ? Seeing dust ? Then you touch up the chain. Depends on the species, on the quality of the logs. Sure, if all you cut are piles of delivered logs that were certainly skidded on dirt, full chisel chains will dull in one tank or before.

For most of us here in the Northeast and Midwest, SEMI-CHISEL chains are the norm. Pacific Northwest loggers use full chisel ( and also skip chain ) since they're harvesting big clean trees 3 feet DBH or more.

I'm sure you'll have a long long long response that will not agree. Fine.....

Midwest has alot of big soft woods 50 in. and up full chisel skipp tooth is a must!

 

[WoodButcher80]

now were all confusing each other! i want this full chisel phenomenon thats ive never used before. im an experienced firewood cross cutter , but most of my wood is on the ground. now, from what ive been told before in other posts, as long as i use my log lift from time to time, and the only dirt that touches the logs is from just laying on the forest floor, ill be ok with a full chisel. the theory was since its not being dragged by a skid and dirt and rocks ans the like would get on and under the bark. i would like to be sold on why ii should use the full chisel but after reading some professionals actually use the semi chisel .im confused.

all im doing is just cross cuts and limbing of hardwoods(maple oak hickory cherry). maybe 3 cords a year tops.


i guess everyones entitled to their own opinion.

 

[smokinj]

now were all confusing each other! i want this full chisel phenomenon thats ive never used before. im an experienced firewood cross cutter , but most of my wood is on the ground. now, from what ive been told before in other posts, as long as i use my log lift from time to time, and the only dirt that touches the logs is from just laying on the forest floor, ill be ok with a full chisel. the theory was since its not being dragged by a skid and dirt and rocks ans the like would get on and under the bark. i would like to be sold on why ii should use the full chisel but after reading some professionals actually use the semi chisel .im confused.

all im doing is just cross cuts and limbing of hardwoods(maple oak hickory cherry). maybe 3 cords a year tops.


i guess everyones entitled to their own opinion.

I do alot of that kind of cutting full chisel will work for you great! Semi is better for dirty wood (rotten spots)dirt or any other kinds of junk!Imo if iam running in dirty wood i run a carbide in-ject-chain with that said 3 cords a year is not much wood semi chisel would be a better bang for yor buck!

 

[Gooserider]

Depends muchly upon your terminology DE- I'm not talking in terms of square-ground chisel, which I agree is much more difficult to learn how to file, and of questionable benefit outside of racing saws and full bore pro-logging... I've never run a square-ground chisel chain, am not sure I've ever even SEEN one, and probably won't ever run one unless someone lends me a loop of it.

What I run, and finds does very well for me, and have had MANY people in my situation reccomend is a ROUND FILED full chisel - Don't have the box handy, but I believe it's an Oregon "LGX" series chain IIRC, and is also the profile used on at least some pro Stihl chains (which the guy I work with a lot runs for similar cutting) this is a chain with a square (or close to it) outside profile, with a hard sharp outside corner. Chipper and semi-chisel chain have rounded outer profiles. ALL THREE are sharpened with a ROUND file or wheel, size specified for that chain by the manufacturer.

The way I describe it is that chipper looks like the tooth was formed by bending a peice of flat stock into shape, while chisel lookes like it was machined from billet, and semi-chisel is in-between...

Gooserider

 

[downeast]

Depends muchly upon your terminology DE- I'm not talking in terms of square-ground chisel, which I agree is much more difficult to learn how to file, and of questionable benefit outside of racing saws and full bore pro-logging... I've never run a square-ground chisel chain, am not sure I've ever even SEEN one, and probably won't ever run one unless someone lends me a loop of it.
What I run, and finds does very well for me, and have had MANY people in my situation reccomend is a ROUND FILED full chisel - Don't have the box handy, but I believe it's an Oregon "LGX" series chain IIRC, and is also the profile used on at least some pro Stihl chains (which the guy I work with a lot runs for similar cutting) this is a chain with a square (or close to it) outside profile, with a hard sharp outside corner. Chipper and semi-chisel chain have rounded outer profiles. ALL THREE are sharpened with a ROUND file or wheel, size specified for that chain by the manufacturer.
The way I describe it is that chipper looks like the tooth was formed by bending a peice of flat stock into shape, while chisel lookes like it was machined from billet, and semi-chisel is in-between...
Gooserider

No, No, and no. Incorrect. :-S
However, your online persona is established as virtual and right by majority. You may continue. :exclaim:

 

[LLigetfa]

What I run, and finds does very well for me, and have had MANY people in my situation reccomend is a ROUND FILED full chisel - Don't have the box handy...

Same here... round filed, full chisel, no anti-kickback. I did keep the box. It is the 35RS 61E. Not sure, may only be for Canadain market, at least says that on the box. Googling, it looks like it might x-ref to Oregon 73LP.
http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html#RS

 

[Gooserider]

What I run, and finds does very well for me, and have had MANY people in my situation reccomend is a ROUND FILED full chisel - Don't have the box handy...

Same here... round filed, full chisel, no anti-kickback. I did keep the box. It is the 35RS 61E. Not sure, may only be for Canadain market, at least says that on the box. Googling, it looks like it might x-ref to Oregon 73LP.
http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html#RS

Yes, that looks about like what I run - note the extremely sharp corner on the outside of the tooth profile - no noticeable radius. On a chipper chain it would be more of a round corner, and a semi-chisel would have a square corner with a bit of a radius on it....

Because of the gullet formed by the way the chain is ground / filed, and the top plate angle there is a point on the leading edge of the corner that does the bulk of the cutting, and which tends to get "hammered" in the process. Touching up after every tank keeps that point as sharp as possible. Chipper / semi-chipper spreads the area of that point over the radius of the curve, so the pressure on it is less concentrated, and it will stay sharp longer, but that also keeps it from cutting as agressively... Like many things in life, it's a trade-off between performance and endurance.

Gooserider

 

[downeast]

Pictured in the previous post is an example of SEMI CHISEL chain, sharpened with a round file.

Full chisel chain is definately sharpened with a square file and looks "square". Please. Now for the ambivalent response. :sick: