I am overthinking this--- wood or pellet?

[granJean]

Background-old lady, only heat, one local dealer, high desert, so if sun doesn't shine it gets cold. I may have decided on a wood insert-either Enviro or Quad. Interior fireplace is close to center of 1600sqft single pane 50's block ranch house. I would probably need a fire at night and hope for coals for a small fire in the morning. Quad seems like there is more control over intensity of fire. Is this correct? Perhaps I could keep it going all day if it was damped down. This winter house warmed up to 63 every day the sun shined. I'd like to add a few degrees to that! And I have enough wood in my yard for next year.

But I have a place against an outside wall facing living areas and hallway to bedrooms for a pellet stove. I don't think pellet is appropriate for mechanically disinclined me. I can follow directions but diagnosing an issue would be a nonstarter. I think pellet would be best for our somewhat warm climate (it got down to 10 this winter) and I think that is why dealer is pushing pellet. But getting dealer to address issues may be a concern. I have no interest in a pellet insert, seems like that would tie up my options.

So I've been reading and would like some imput. What have I missed in my decision making.

Thanks for your responses, Jean

(babbling portion) I'd probably use maybe a cord of wood. What I should do is replace my gas furnace but I just don't want to. I have heated with wood for 20 years but I was younger. I have been using my fireplace for heat for the last 3 years with a blower grate, which kept the chill off when I had hardwood but I didn't buy any early enough and was left with juniper which my fireplace ate whole. Pellets are available through 2 big box stores. I can go to the forest in the summer and get wood placed in my truck or have it delivered to my house. Problem with wood is occasional black widow. Yikes. I started this with wanting a gas stove where the pellet stove would go. The 10' through the attic and down was quoted at $750 for the gas pipe. Stove pipe has to go straight up as wall backs onto carport. So that pipe cost adds to the price of the pellet or gas stove also.

 

[Sprinter]

Well, granJean, welcome to this forum. I'll give you my 2c worth of thought. I like the idea of a small insert in your situation since you already have next winter's supply and for the fact that you have a central fireplace to install an insert. Central is good. That is, if you can get good wood. You probably won't like juniper in a stove much either, although it may be adequate for quick fires to take the chill off and if you don't mind feeding the fire often. I think you may much prefer the looks and ambiance of having a visible, natural looking fire in a stove over pellets.

A pellet stove may work well for you, though, since your heating needs are modest. You may want to post a question in the pellet stove section in this forum regarding reliability issues. It's my impression that they are more reliable than they used to be, but that some are better than others. They certainly are simpler to operate and fuel is simpler to get. You didn't say why you would not want a pellet insert. It would be a better location than the outside wall and installation may be cheaper for the pipe. Or maybe you want to keep the option of having fires in the fireplace sometimes.

The relative cost of the two fuels is probably not much of an issue since you won't be burning much of either.

Installation costs may be enough difference to swing you, but don't undervalue getting what will work the best for you.

 

[begreen]

Pellet stoves are basically a small furnace. If quiet, simple operation is important, stick with the wood insert. Enviro has a good reputation here. I can't see why it would not have the same degree of regulation as the Quad.

 

[nate379]

If you did wood I'd probably leave an electric heater plugged in on a thermostat to 55-60*. JUST in case you are late coming home from errands, work, have to leave town, etc than the house won't freeze.

I heat with wood but I leave my natural gas boiler T-Stats set to 60-65* (4 zones in my house), no sense in the house getting cold just because I didn't feed the stove.... and it will happen a few times over the course of winter.

 

[Sprinter]

Pellet stoves are basically a small furnace. If quiet, simple operation is important, stick with the wood insert. Enviro has a good reputation here. I can't see why it would not have the same degree of regulation as the Quad.

Are pellet stoves noisy? I've never used one. Do the feeders make noise or what? I do think that would be annoying to me.

 

[fox9988]

Welcome Jean. You've been doing some research instead of impulse buying, that's a good start. And, you've come to the right place ask for advice.

If it where me, I'd go wood. I'd prefer a freestanding stove (Keystone or Fireview?) in front of (or inside) the fireplace if possible. Depending on how "old" you are, you may not wish to carry wood into the house for the next 10+ years. In my area wood can be bought, delivered, for half the cost/btu, than pellets.

The house is constructed of blocks? Are they Insulated? Concrete or wood floors? Attic insulated?
FYI, my wife has a ~65 year old friend that had her arm and shoulder removed a couple of years ago(cancer). Some of her ribs + whatever else they used, where relocated to build her a shoulder. She still runs a wood stove (and works, grandkids,etc.). One tough lady......

 

[fox9988]

As for the title to your post: There is not such think as over thinking on this site
Examples;weighing loads of wood, moisture meter readings, counting, measuring, restacking, thermometer readings, temp probes, infrared readings, etc.[This could go on and on for pages in its own post]. Its not as complicated as we make it out to be, we are just enthusiasts(nuts)Stick around for your first few months and you'll be fine.

 

[begreen]

Are pellet stoves noisy? I've never used one. Do the feeders make noise or what? I do think that would be annoying to me.

Yes, most are. They have multiple blowers for combustion and convection. Some companies have done a better job than others at noise reduction, but it'll cost you.

 

[granJean]

Thanks for the welcome and responses. Its helpful.

I forgot about the noise of a pellet stove. Trains blast by all day and night and the only ones I notice are the ones that don't blow their horns. I can't differentiate the labor of hauling wood or pellets except for black widows on wood. Actually the wood I have is shaggy bark cedar/juniper. It's great for starting fires. I'll get hardwood this summer if I go wood. If I get it soon it may be before they open the forests to cutting so it will already be last years. Since I've been using my fireplace for heat an insert would be more efficient. Supplemental heat doesn't matter here. With no heat the last couple of years my house got down to 53. Fireplace with blower grate can bring it up to 70 but that takes all day and a lot of wood. I'll take the advice and post on pellet forum. It definitely makes more sense in my climate to go with thermostat controlled pellet, maybe in every climate. Maybe I could see my way to a pellet insert. I'll at least get a price on a no frills pellet insert. Otherwise I've narrowed it down to a Kodiak 1700 or a Quad 3100 insert. I like the looks of that Quad Voyageur also. Perhaps a little big for my needs but more flexibility on log size since I'm not chopping or thats my logic. I don't have to load the whole box, do I? I just make smaller fires and reload when necessary. I'm sticking with Enviro and Quad brands as that what local dealer offers. They also offer Lennox, Vermont Castings. Nearest another dealer is 150+ miles. The thing with age is that you may be big and healthy but the older you get the odds decrease that will continue to be your fate. After reading my own remarks I think I'm going wood because I like it. Jean

 

[gyrfalcon]

Thanks for the welcome and responses. Its helpful.

I forgot about the noise of a pellet stove. Trains blast by all day and night and the only ones I notice are the ones that don't blow their horns. I can't differentiate the labor of hauling wood or pellets except for black widows on wood. Actually the wood I have is shaggy bark cedar/juniper. It's great for starting fires. I'll get hardwood this summer if I go wood. If I get it soon it may be before they open the forests to cutting so it will already be last years. Since I've been using my fireplace for heat an insert would be more efficient. Supplemental heat doesn't matter here. With no heat the last couple of years my house got down to 53. Fireplace with blower grate can bring it up to 70 but that takes all day and a lot of wood. I'll take the advice and post on pellet forum. It definitely makes more sense in my climate to go with thermostat controlled pellet, maybe in every climate. Maybe I could see my way to a pellet insert. I'll at least get a price on a no frills pellet insert. Otherwise I've narrowed it down to a Kodiak 1700 or a Quad 3100 insert. I like the looks of that Quad Voyageur also. Perhaps a little big for my needs but more flexibility on log size since I'm not chopping or thats my logic. I don't have to load the whole box, do I? I just make smaller fires and reload when necessary. I'm sticking with Enviro and Quad brands as that what local dealer offers. They also offer Lennox, Vermont Castings. Nearest another dealer is 150+ miles. The thing with age is that you may be big and healthy but the older you get the odds decrease that will continue to be your fate. After reading my own remarks I think I'm going wood because I like it. Jean

Jean, you're spirit is great. One more thing to consider is getting the fuel into the stove. I have a woodstove, and one of the reasons I like it over pellets is that I bring in what I can carry comfortably-- numerous loads, but no one beyond my strength (unless I'm being stupid and impatient). Pellets, on the other hand, come in 40-pound bags, period, as I understand it. That's a tough hoist for a woman in the prime. Also, with most pellet stoves, as I understand it, the hopper is on top, so unless you hoist that 40-pound bag up to shoulder height to pour it, that's bending and stooping and standing up again, and bending down again, on and on. No thank you.

I may be all wet on some of that since I dont have a pellet stove myself and am relying on reports from friends who do. But the point is,dont neglect to consider what it takes to haul/load each kind of fuel.

 

[BrotherBart]

Jean has this running in the pellet room too. She has the ideal requirement for a pellet stove. Forty pounds of pellets or 40 pounds of wood for overnight weighs the same and ya gotta get it to the stove somehow. Hard to scoop a bucketful of cord wood at a time and pour it into the stove. And real hard to turn the stove off if the joint is getting too warm.

And you can't get a cord of wood at Home Depot.

BB - Who just turned five years older than Jean and kinda thinks about moving that pellet stove out of the basement to the main floor sometimes.

 

[Dave A.]

Welcome, Jean.

Was considering a pellet stove myself for awhile (before I got my Summit Insert and was still struggling with the too small Century insert). One of the main factors for pellet for me was the cost because I was comparing it to heating with propane. I don't know what your NG prices are like in AZ, but if they are comparable to here in PA, I certainly wouldn't be looking at pellet for cost. Here there isn't really a savings with pellets if you have NG available and considering the extra work with the pellets, it wouldn't be worth it, unless your comparing having to heat the whole house with the furnace vs only part with the pellet stove.

I eventually ruled out the pellet because of the cost of the equipment. I wanted the Harman Accentra (which is supposedly the quietest) but it was over $1000 more than the Summit. Have been using the Summit for a month or so and it looks like it should be able able to heat my house as I wanted it to. And I just got 6 cords of firewood stacked and drying for hopefully next season and part of the following.

You mention not wanting to but needing to replace your NG furnace so I won't pry, but there are other options like NG room heaters if you aren't already aware of them. And NG stoves usually can be direct vented more inexpensively than venting for a wood stove or insert. Pellet stove venting if you can go horizontally out a wall should also not be all that expensive.

But listening to you, it sounds like you really prefer the idea of a wood stove/insert. Though I don't think you've really spelled out your objectives in this -- savings on fuel cost or what?

You should realize that you will probably have to spend more than the cost of venting the gas stove for running a SS liner for a wood insert unless you do the work yourself and a liner is just about mandatory.

 

[blades]

Option on the wood stove /insert especially when down to less than adequate firewood is compressed wood blocks/bricks/extrusions. In the box stores right next to pellets. Cost equates a cord of cut /split/ delivered hardwood. No bugs, cleaner to handle than firewood, takes up less space, btu same as firewood or better /per piece because its density is greater than most firewood. Packaging is easy to handle and transport. And because you are using your stove/ fireplace no fancy pellet rig cleaning chores.

Around here pellets and blocks and good hard wood of a cord or equivalent pricing is about the same

 

[gyrfalcon]

Jean has this running in the pellet room too. She has the ideal requirement for a pellet stove. Forty pounds of pellets or 40 pounds of wood for overnight weighs the same and ya gotta get it to the stove somehow. Hard to scoop a bucketful of cord wood at a time and pour it into the stove. And real hard to turn the stove off if the joint is getting too warm.

And you can't get a cord of wood at Home Depot.

BB - Who just turned five years older than Jean and kinda thinks about moving that pellet stove out of the basement to the main floor sometimes.

Dearest BB-- Pellet stove may be perfect for her, I'm just pointing out that the daily feeding chores are something to consider. And BB, one is not obligated to carry 40 pounds of wood at a time. I certainly don't. One does, however, at a minimum, have to haul 40-pound bags of pellets off the top of the stack and into the house before you can open them up and take some out. I don't use pellets, but I do struggle with 40-pound bags of bird seed. No way I would want to do that every day or every couple of days. (Matter of fact, a big strong male friend of mine just got diagnosed with very painful tendonitis as a result of doing just that every day this past winter.)

And you can get a cord's worth of bio-bricks at Home Depot.

You pick your poison, but it's best if you're clear on what the alternatives actually entail on a daily basis, no?

 

[BrotherBart]

Yep. I have six cords of one alternative out back and three tons of the other in the basement. Bio Bricks at HD would be a great alternative. I have just never seen an HD that stocks them.

 

[granJean]

OK boys, if I wanted easy I would get the gas pack replaced. And I'm not ruling that out, but later, when I need it. I don't see any cost advantage to natural gas, pellets, or wood. I think I may pay more for pellets because of the simplicity of use. My old gaspack died a few years ago. Perhaps it was so old and inefficient it is coloring my judgment. I swear the whole neighborhood shook when that dinosaur came on. Plus I never felt the heat, it was just air blowing around, you can't get warm, like with wood. I like the bio brick idea but I've never seen one. Perhaps its the romance of the wood that makes me think I want a wood insert in my fireplace, but its not the bugs or mess. I can always have firewood delivered but you're right, BB, Home Depot is way more dependable!

I am getting lots of feedback and am moving closer to the pellet stove. Dealer should be out this week. The stove will have to go up through the roof as stove will back onto my carport. Or that's what I think. So that brings cost closer to wood insert. But Thanks to all the feedback I will be somewhat knowledgeable and more important-have figured out what I want, when dealer shows up. Jean

 

[Dave A.]

One of the big advantages of pellet is being able to vent right out the wall. If you have or can draw a plan of your house and post it, you might get some help in rethinking a better locale for the pellet stove to take advantage of horizontal venting.

 

[granJean]

this is embarrassing but I hope you can understand it

 

[fox9988]

Is the drawing to scale?

 

[blades]

As pellet stoves all rely on forced exhaust going out the side wall and then up through carport roof would be an option. Terminating in the carport would not be a good idea to my way of thinking.
You likely have seen the compressed products just never paid any attention to them. Heck I have even noticed them ( in season of course) in the grocery stores, besides the over priced bundles of campfire wood.

 

[Sprinter]

this is embarrassing but I hope you can understand itView attachment 101955

That centrally located fireplace will certainly be a better place than the outside wall for a pellet stove (or any stove). If you end up with pellet, I think it should be an insert.

Also, this is going to be more than just a heat source. NG can do that. A wood burning insert with a nice big window will be a very pleasant experience both visually and from the radiant heat.

As for brand names, you just mentioned Lennox. Their Country line is pretty good. I looked at those myself. It's an old established brand that Lennox bought a while back. You can ask the dealer about their support.

As for size, yes, you can build small fires. I do it all the time. Just keep it hot enough to fire the secondaries and keep the flue above the creosote level. I could actually get away with a smaller stove here. But the Quad Voyager looks to be about 1.8 cf which is not too large.

It sounds like you have the dealer coming out soon, so you will have a better idea of your practical options.

 

[Dave A.]

Don't know all the rules, but I guess the idea is that you can't have the stove venting out into the carport because of the proximity to the car which may be considered an ignition source and/or that the carport is too enclosed -- either way not a good idea.

What about moving the stove back a foot or so into (what am assuming is) the dining area a little (assuming your drawing is correct in showing that the carport roof ends at the dining area) and venting out the wall there.

Back to your furnace and problems with it --

1. You should realize that a pellet stove is not going to give you as much of the kind of radiant type heat you seem to like from a wood fire. It is going to be more of the hot air blowing like a hot air furnace. Though unlike an old over sized inefficient furnace which often blows hot for a short duration and then cuts off and the house cools, the pellet stove can be set to be blowing hot air all the time at a lower comfortable level.

2. Are you concerned that replacing the furnace with something more efficient (probably 95% and maybe combo heat pump/gas furnace backup) won't correct the problem -- that there are other problems with the system like bad duct work or exhaust -- because a more efficient properly sized system will be comparable to a pellet stove in that it can be putting out lower heat constantly. And I'm sure you realize if/when you go to sell, it is important to have a working central heating system.

Or maybe you should just resign yourself to putting the stove where you want it with a chimney through the roof. But you also might consider the option of putting a freestanding wood stove in that same place, it probably will heat better than a stove insert in the fireplace, the other side of that is that a liner in the fireplace for a stove/insert will cost less than a new freestanding chimney for a stove.

The fireplace insert option is appealing because you don't have to take up additional room space and you don't need to poke a new hole in the house (either through the roof or through concrete block walls).

Sort of understand your situation. You've been getting by without heat for awhile making do and you seem to want to go on that way without really tackling the problem head on. It is good that you are doing this now in the off season where you have time to consider the options without the pressure of having to heat. Any of what you're considering can work, pellet, wood, even gas stove. But you really should be looking into replacing your central heat -- looking at the options available there and costs which I suspect may be less than any of the stove/insert options, imo anyway.

 

[Sprinter]

1. You should realize that a pellet stove is not going to give you as much of the kind of radiant type heat you seem to like from a wood fire

+1 on that

But you also might consider the option of putting a freestanding wood stove in that same place, it probably will heat better than a stove insert in the fireplace, the other side of that is that a liner in the fireplace for a stove/insert will cost less than a new freestanding chimney for a stove.

I would normally agree if the fireplace were on an outside wall and could lose a lot of heat, a feestanding stove would be better. But it sounds like in this case where the fireplace is central, having all that brick around the stove would actually be a benefit, especially in the desert where it cools off at night so fast. Hard to say what a liner will cost, but I'll be interested in what the dealer has to say.

 

[granJean]

I was so embarrassed I made a better drawing. If I use the fireplace I will use a wood insert because its a focal point and I want to keep the wood option just in case. But I was thinking since I mostly need heat at night wood insert may be better because I would feel safer and it wouldn't be making noise Since the dealer prefers pellet we'll see what he comes up with. Thanks all, my little brain is gonna overload. Hey its 5pm somewhere

 

[BrotherBart]

Cheers.