I have a brainstorm idea, dont hang me, just questions

[webby3650]

Yeah I saw that but bholler is talking about a new one and that one was released in 2015. I will like to know more about it.

I will like to see what manufacturers are going to do for better efficiency. I think that we are at the end of the road with existing models/technologies.

If I understand correctly, efficiency is based on how much btu stays in the house and not up the chimney. Maybe is more complicated than that, but we all get the idea. Existing systems need temperature to draft and we already have some stoves in the market that can run real low temperature in the flue.

I don't know how much they can go and make more efficient without going into of more sophisticated system and force induction or something. I just saying.

That's why I'm hoarding top of the line stoves now, while they are still dependable and easy to operate with a full range of burn rate. I'm just fillin the garage up!
With all this automation this forum will end up like the pellet forum, plagued with problems...

 

[Squirrely]

more complexity = more problems = more expensive to replace parts

 

[Michael Sean]

more complexity = more problems = more expensive to replace parts

I completely agree. Electronics will fail and in the dead of winter with power outages imminent, I would rather not have a stove that depends on those electronics parts to function correctly.

With that being said I do think the stoves are very neat and innovative. Just personally not my cup of tea.

 

[bholler]

more complexity = more problems = more expensive to replace parts

I agree to a certain extent. But there are times the benifits of that complexity outweighs the downsides.

That being said i am not going to pay to be a guinea pig. I will wait till the stove has proven itself.

 

[bholler]

I completely agree. Electronics will fail and in the dead of winter with power outages imminent, I would rather not have a stove that depends on those electronics parts to function correctly.

With that being said I do think the stoves are very neat and innovative. Just personally not my cup of tea.

So far everything will run just fine in manual mode and has battery backup as well. As long as it stays that way i dont see a problem

 

[Squirrely]

I completely agree. Electronics will fail and in the dead of winter with power outages imminent, I would rather not have a stove that depends on those electronics parts to function correctly.

With that being said I do think the stoves are very neat and innovative. Just personally not my cup of tea.

This is where customer choice comes in.

Urbanites who want doodads and smart gizmos with digital readouts on their stoves can have them.
While pioneer types who want a simple reliable wood burning stove that will always work even at the worst times when the power goes out can have them.

Here's a pictorial examples of two different directions.

What does this stove have?... DESIGN.



And what does this stove have? TECHNOLOGY.









So take yer pick.

Personally, I'll take a stove with design over a stove with technology any day. Because design is passive, it always works. We live way out at the end of the extension cord, and someone is always tripping over it and pulling it out.

When I look at stove manuals, I always look at the troubleshooting section.

large troubleshooting section = crappy stove.

I like the design of our Squirrel because it always works. In the operating manual there is no troubleshooting section.

And it's made from junk... 98% recycled cast iron. I find that oddly satisfying.

Greg



]

 

[bholler]

This is where customer choice comes in.

Urbanites who want doodads and smart gizmos with digital readouts on their stoves can have them.
While pioneer types who want a simple reliable wood burning stove that will always work even at the worst times when the power goes out can have them.

Here's a pictorial examples of two different directions.

What does this stove have?... DESIGN.

View attachment 199062

And what does this stove have? TECHNOLOGY.

So take yer pick.

Personally, I'll take a stove with design over a stove with technology any day. Because design is passive, it always works. We live way out at the end of the extension cord, and someone is always tripping over it and pulling it out.

Also, our Squirrel is made from junk. It's 98% recycled cast iron... and I find that oddly satisfying.

Greg



]

Well i am not sure where you come up with the urbanite thing. There are people who want cutting edge stuff from all parts and those that dont. And btw i am very far from an urbanite i grew up in the country lived in philly for 10 years and i am now back in the country for about 15 years. As far as your examples go the one with a controller has just as much design in it and it will work just the same in manual. It just gives you the option to run more efficiently with the controller. I dont care which you pick but dont act like smart stoves have no design or will not work just fine with no power it simply is not true.

And btw steel stoves are made with recycled material as well nothing unique about your stove there.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

That's why I'm hoarding top of the line stoves now, while they are still dependable and easy to operate with a full range of burn rate. I'm just fillin the garage up!
With all this automation this forum will end up like the pellet forum, plagued with problems...

I get a chuckle out of this. It's reminiscent of the age of technology in automobiles. Back in the day, people were afraid of electronic fuel injection, computers running the throttle plate, anti-lock brakes, etc. They were scared it was going to cause accidents, break down, etc. Turns out, not only do the new computerized engines make more power, run more smoothly and cleanly, have more instantaneous throttle response and return better mileage, they also have less reliability issues than the carburetors of yesteryear.

Same thing happened with chainsaws when the computerized auto-tune models came out. People said computers might be fine in a car, but not in a chainsaw. It's going to be unreliable and expensive to fix. I read up on them and bought a Stihl MS 261 C-M after determining they were rugged, well designed, reliable and made better power at a lower weight. It's been the best saw I've ever owned. Super easy to start, hits a perfect idle every time, every temperature, regardless of fuel or altitude and doesn't require fiddling with the little fuel mixture/idle adjustment screws to get it to idle properly and make the best power in the cut. It's a huge leap forward. More time for keeping the chain sharp, less time starting and fiddling with mixture screws and filling up with gas. A tank seems to last forever even though it holds the same amount as my old saw and makes considerably more power. This is not your grandfathers 50cc saw. It cuts like a saw that has 60cc or more. It'll probably last longer too since it prevents itself from running too rich or (more dangerously) too lean.

Woodstoves will be the same way. Same thing happened when the EPA regulated wood stove emissions. But rather than making stoves worse, it made them better. People realized their stoves were burning longer with less fiddling, less loading and less cutting, splitting and stacking. Some people are now afraid of computers in wood stoves, once they have proven themselves, it will be the only way. Woodburners will not want to go back to "dumb" stoves. The benefits of the new smart stoves will be too great to ignore. Yes, there will always be a few technophobes but their voices will be drowned out by the extreme performance, reliability and convenience of the new smart stoves.

That's just the way it is.

 

[Squirrely]

Well i am not sure where you come up with the urbanite thing.

It's a local situation. Up here, there's a mix of rural canyon folk and flatlanders from the city.

Greg

 

[bholler]

It's a local situation. Up here, there's a mix of rural canyon folk and flatlanders from the city.

Greg

Ok that is your situation. But you are trying to put that on the rest of the world and it simply does not apply in most places.

 

[webby3650]

I get a chuckle out of this. It's reminiscent of the age of technology in automobiles. Back in the day, people were afraid of electronic fuel injection, computers running the throttle plate, anti-lock brakes, etc. They were scared it was going to cause accidents, break down, etc. Turns out, not only do the new computerized engines make more power, run more smoothly and cleanly, have more instantaneous throttle response and return better mileage, they also have less reliability issues than the carburetors of yesteryear.

Same thing happened with chainsaws when the computerized auto-tune models came out. People said computers might be fine in a car, but not in a chainsaw. It's going to be unreliable and expensive to fix. I read up on them and bought a Stihl MS 261 C-M after determining they were rugged, well designed, reliable and made better power at a lower weight. It's been the best saw I've ever owned. Super easy to start, hits a perfect idle every time, every temperature, regardless of fuel or altitude and doesn't require fiddling with the little fuel mixture/idle adjustment screws to get it to idle properly and make the best power in the cut. It's a huge leap forward. More time for keeping the chain sharp, less time starting and fiddling with mixture screws and filling up with gas. A tank seems to last forever even though it holds the same amount as my old saw and makes considerably more power. This is not your grandfathers 50cc saw. It cuts like a saw that has 60cc or more. It'll probably last longer too since it prevents itself from running too rich or (more dangerously) too lean.

Woodstoves will be the same way. Same thing happened when the EPA regulated wood stove emissions. But rather than making stoves worse, it made them better. People realized their stoves were burning longer with less fiddling, less loading and less cutting, splitting and stacking. Some people are now afraid of computers in wood stoves, once they have proven themselves, it will be the only way. Woodburners will not want to go back to "dumb" stoves. The benefits of the new smart stoves will be too great to ignore. Yes, there will always be a few technophobes but their voices will be drowned out by the extreme performance, reliability and convenience of the new smart stoves.

That's just the way it is.

Ya, you've said this before.

I'm all for advancement, I've purchased many late model highly efficient woodstoves. I don't need a computer in my woodstove though. I see no place for it in our market locally. We still have folks that don't even want a glass door.

 

[bholler]

Ya, you've said this before.

I'm all for advancement, I've purchased many late model highly efficient woodstoves. I don't need a computer in my woodstove though. I see no place for it in our market locally. We still have folks that don't even want a glass door.

I agree personally at this point i dont need or want a smart stove. But i still want them to develop those stoves and i am glad there are people willing to buy them so they get developed further

And yes we have customers who want nothing advanced but we have some who would be intetested in a smart stove

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I don't need a computer in my woodstove though. I see no place for it in our market locally.

That will change and then you will see the light.

I can tell, you will be one of the late adopters. Better late than never!

 

[bholler]

That will change and then you will see the light.

I can tell, you will be one of the late adopters. Better late than never!

Like with heavywall liner lol. Sorry webby i couldnt resist no offence meant by it.

 

[begreen]

How many hours or days is the battery backup good for on the Quads? We'd need 2 week backup for our area.

A couple advantages of good technology besides cleaner burning is convenience. That can mean easier starting and thermostatic control of room temp. This can appeal to people that have had negative experiences with wood burning in the past. I'm not saying there aren't non-tech alternatives, just that these are selling points. Example: we had the first Resolute stove and loved it. In spite of being in a small home it did a pretty good job at thermostatic temperature regulation. Since selling that stove many years ago I missed this thermostatic regulation. At one point I even wrote Jotul about adding this feature. It wasn't until we got the T6 that we experienced another, simpler way to regulate temperature swing - thermal mass. Now we have very little temp swing in the house. The same could be said for fire starting. Sure automatic igniters are convenient, but with nice dry kindling or a piece of SuperCedar, fire starting is very easy. And if one is burning 24/7 cold starts only happen during milder weather.

This puts me in the good design camp. I like design that keeps the stove as simple as possible. The venerable 30NC's meets 2020 emission goals and has been doing this since the early 2000's.

 

[Squirrely]

Ok that is your situation. But you are trying to put that on the rest of the world and it simply does not apply in most places.

In my opinion it does.

Greg

 

[lsucet]

Being in the automotive industry for years plus being educated in other electronic areas, i really think i will like to see wood stoves with a more automated systems but at the same time to be able to use it like a traditional stove in case of outage. I think, we all at some point dont want to go back to older technologies once we deal with latest technologies available. It is human nature of always want something better if possible. Maybe I am wrong. I came/learn the mechanic deals since i was a kid with my uncles in Cuba with cars from 30s,40s, 50s etc. But i can tell you for sure that i am not going back to carburetors and distributors unless i am force to.lol
in the city we are on NG furnace and if there is an outage, we have no heating. I think everything have its place and we all have different situations and for some one technology works better than other. we all can be right or wrong.

 

[begreen]

Agreed. I love some of the older stoves for their beauty, but I also like the simple tech that makes modern stove much cleaner burning.

 

[lsucet]

I love this but i have no idea of specs but is cool

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Being in the automotive industry for years plus being educated in other electronic areas, i really think i will like to see wood stoves with a more automated systems but at the same time to be able to use it like a traditional stove in case of outage. I think, we all at some point dont want to go back to older technologies once we deal with latest technologies available. It is human nature of always want something better if possible.

I don't think wood stoves of the future will have batteries with a finite charge or require wall voltage. They will be self generating. Look at the new computerized auto-tune chainsaws. They have no batteries.

The amount of electricity consumed by a simple CPU is miniscule and will only get smaller over time. Servo actuators will harness the heat of the fire to actuate and there will be no need to be dependent upon the electric utility to run your wood stove. The heat of the fire will generate all that is needed.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I love this but i have no idea of specs but is cool

There is a great quote in there:

"The ancient Egyptians invented (fireplace) bellows 5000 years ago. Since then, there really hasn't been much progress."

I love it!

 

[begreen]

I love this but i have no idea of specs but is cool

There's about 100 yrs of wood burning that he is missing in this promo video. He jumped from an open fireplace to a high tech stove completely skipping decades of enclosed stoves and then modern secondary combustions stoves. I think these are Nestor Martin stoves in the video. As I mentioned earlier, Hwam and Rika also have modern automated stoves. FWIW, Euroheat appears to have closed its doors according to the website.

 

[begreen]

"The ancient Egyptians invented (fireplace) bellows 5000 years ago. Since then, there really hasn't been much progress."

I love it!

LOL It's a pretty silly statement.

 

[bholler]

LOL It's a pretty silly statement.

Agreed very silly

 

[lsucet]

There's about 100 yrs of wood burning that he is missing in this promo video. He jumped from an open fireplace to a high tech stove completely skipping decades of enclosed stoves and then modern secondary combustions stoves. I think these are Nestor Martin stoves in the video. As I mentioned earlier, Hwam and Rika also have modern automated stoves. FWIW, Euroheat appears to have closed its doors according to the website.

I am sure you are correct. to be honest i was more concentrated on the stove and the remote.lol.
I really think that this technologies can open the doors for new generations continue the wood burning tradition in a way that they feel is their time. Just a push of a bottom. This way they can say, they continues the tradition of wood burning from dad and grandpa etc. lol