I need immediate advice from members, firefighters, etc...

[pen]

wait till you see how this stove performs with a chimney!

pen

 

[joefrompa]

Heheh, while I wait, I gave my stove a sponge bath this morning. I couldn't believe how much that plain black matte iron/stove black paint popped out at me

 

[boatboy63]

P.s. I told my wife some of the comments on here about the vacuum being created and sucking heated air up the chimney. She reminded me that we had family over in Thanksgiving, and back then walking into the room was like "a wall of heat". We had fans on people cause we were smoking them out. She reminded me that back then it was alot hotter in the room than we'd been achieving recently....and I reminded myself that I became a far better burner after Christmas too. So despite being a far better burner, the room was alot colder. That tells me alot about how much heat I was losing.

Maybe true, but wouldn't you think November is a warmer month than January? I know that for my area, it is. Normally, our true winter starts around the end of Dec to first of Jan. This year, it was the first week of December.

Also, I agree with giving the installer a second chance. It is something that can happen and if he is willing to make things right, that's all it takes. Just because the place you purchased the stove from recommended them, doesn't mean they should be responsible for the outcome of the installer.

 

[rijim]

I would probably be inclined to have an independent inspection done so as to have a list of all violations and less than ideal installation methods; save a receipt of cost. Have this person give you a quote to correct all issues. Let the original installer have a look at it and see if they identify and agree to fix all the same issues the independent inspection found, if not show them the door and and tell them what they owe you to get it fixed; if they don't want to hear it you have no choice but to contact an attorney.

Good luck,
Jim

 

[joefrompa]

Installer called and left a message on my cell phone from his secretary/admin saying "We received the pictures and are very sorry that this has happened. It should never have happened and it appears the part broke. We will come out and install a heavy-duty welded version to correct the issue and ensure it does not happen again."

Obviously not over yet, but the message was solid.

Boatboy - It was around 30-32 degrees in Thanksgiving here, or within about 5 degrees of what I've been experiencing in the truer winter.

 

[HotCoals]

Interesting deal.
Seems the stove seller likes to keep his butt covered by farming out the wood stove installs...but if things went way south he could still be sued along with the installer.
Thank God you found this!
People may not agree with me but I think the seller should have dealt with the installer.
He recommended him.

 

[begreen]

Installer called and left a message on my cell phone from his secretary/admin saying "We received the pictures and are very sorry that this has happened. It should never have happened and it appears the part broke. We will come out and install a heavy-duty welded version to correct the issue and ensure it does not happen again."

Obviously not over yet, but the message was solid.

Boatboy - It was around 30-32 degrees in Thanksgiving here, or within about 5 degrees of what I've been experiencing in the truer winter.

Well, you know the riff. They could be right but have not answered the sloppy workmanship shown by the clamp out on the liner. You are in the driver seat now. Hopefully they will work with you to rectify the problem and will go over the installation with a fine tooth comb. I would be cooperative, but firm on your concerns of safety and about where else they were not paying attention to details. The ball is in their court now to make this safe and to do right by the customer.

 

[bpm44]

Holy fill-in-the-blank Joe! As many have said thankfully you and yours are safe. For as ticked as you are, and rightfully so, it sounds as though you are handling it well. The response from the installer at least includes an apology and an upgrade in the elbow for the remedy. Even the "pros" have crap happen. You spent good money and expect proper performance and competent anticipation of the different stress forces on the pipe and connectors and that they would use the proper parts the first time around from paying the bucks to have a pro do the install. I too have seen HVAC elbows pop like that.

You wouldn't think you would have to check their work, but this is not the case when it comes to so many service type things these days. Last year the dealership (yes, I have all of Mrs. Jeeper's car repairs done there) left the oil plug finger tight in the drain pan. After noticing the dinner plate size puddle in the driveway later that day, the oil was at the bottom of the hash marks. Tightened it up, no more leak. Called the dealership. Apology and a free oil change next time. Sure they did something, but that doesn't make up for my freshly sealed blacktop. Arghh.

Also FWIW it looks to me like the design of the adaptor from the elbow to the flex pipe is supposed to clamp on the flex pipe.

Certainly after the repair is made your previous stove troubles should be non-existent.

I hope you get good service and they make good on the fix.

 

[joefrompa]

Thanks all. As an additional step when this is done.....

I have a massive box of ATS flexible rock wool that I spent $48 getting shipped to me. Instead of just using it as a block-off plate, I've decided I'm going to shove it up around the final flex pipe all the way down to the stove (thereby insulating the liner even when it hits the stove), and I'm going to PACK the entire area around the back of the stove with it, so that literally when you open the trim it's just a wall of rock wool.

I already have the stuff sitting around, have no other purposes for it, and I want to work to prevent stink bug penetration and even the chance of any sort of air leakage or draw occuring. I also really want to feel heat radiating out from this stove when this is done....

I'll be talking to the installer later on this morning. We'll see what happens.

 

[ansehnlich1]

....you could just run a little of that aluminum tape around there and you'd be good to go ;-P

For real, I replied to your thread about not getting heat out of your stove.....

It's obvious why now.

My bet is the thing would draft pretty good like it is, sucking any startup smoke that collected in there right on up that liner once she got going.

The good thing is at least they sound like they are willing to make it right.

 

[btuser]

Yes, once he said it on the phone I agreed with him. I have to give the guy a chance, no matter how upset I am. And I totally agree with the motto that service is not giving you the product you asked for, it's making you happy when you find out the product isn't what you expected.

I'm glad to hear this. I can relate to the feeling of being pissed off but as a service tech I know how things get screwed up.

 

[begreen]

Thanks all. As an additional step when this is done.....

I have a massive box of ATS flexible rock wool that I spent $48 getting shipped to me. Instead of just using it as a block-off plate, I've decided I'm going to shove it up around the final flex pipe all the way down to the stove (thereby insulating the liner even when it hits the stove), and I'm going to PACK the entire area around the back of the stove with it, so that literally when you open the trim it's just a wall of rock wool.

I already have the stuff sitting around, have no other purposes for it, and I want to work to prevent stink bug penetration and even the chance of any sort of air leakage or draw occurring. I also really want to feel heat radiating out from this stove when this is done....

I'll be talking to the installer later on this morning. We'll see what happens.

If you want to insulate the fireplace cavity I'd to it neatly instead of trying to pack it around the stove. While the stove is out, attach the blanket, fitted to the walls using tapcons and large fender washers. With the top plate secured and sealed in place the only way the bugs are getting down is through the flue. They most likely crawled out that gaping hole. If they came down any other way, the plate on top has not been sealed to the chimney top. Or there's a hole in the side of the chimney.

 

[joefrompa]

Why should I attach the insulation to the walls using tapcons? I'm not going to compress it, but why can't I layer it in there thickly around the stove?

 

[webby3650]

Can you get a picture of the top? Just for kicks, I would like to see how the terminated it. Is it insulated?

What do you think?

 

[joefrompa]

I can't get a picture of the top right now except from the ground, as everything is covered in snow and ice.

The liner is insulated down to about 1' before it connects to the stove and right up under the top. The top is a standard "Flex king" cap and plate. From the ground, the top looks fine...a little creosote build-up, but I can easily see through the mesh in sunlight. Doesn't look like it's moved at all from the ground.

The installer is coming out tomorrow at 9am. I'll take pictures throughout.

 

[joefrompa]

All,

I believe the Chimney sweep has read this thread as he sent me an e-mail and clarified that the parts were not flex king, but were Olympia. He reports that the elbow was from a 3rd party vendor when Olympia was in short supply (still sent to him from Olympia).

I did not send him any private notes or mention Flex King at all with anyone except my last post 1 hour ago.

He is scheduled to come out tomorrow. I would like to update this thread and share his side of the story (if he's ok with that), pictures of the fix, etc. If he approves, I I will also share his name at that time.

Since getting in touch with him, things have moved quickly and they've been very proactive in calling me and scheduling a fix. I should have contacted him upfront directly - my mistake, which I blame on being very upset.

Thanks all,

Joe

 

[pen]

sounds like you are getting an honest response from some folks that genuinely want to do a good job. I sure hope the fix continues to go this well for you.

As far as calling the stove shop first, well I thought I made a mistake once but then I realized I was mistaken. ;-) Everyone has done it, few are willing to man up to it like you have. You sharing your experience is a good lesson to all which is what this site is for and why I like it.

pen

 

[Kenster]

I don't quite understand how you went several months without seeing that gap in the pipe. Is that pipe not normally exposed to view or is there some sort of divider that hides it? It looks pretty obvious to me.

 

[Jags]

I don't quite understand how you went several months without seeing that gap in the pipe. Is that pipe not normally exposed to view or is there some sort of divider that hides it? It looks pretty obvious to me.

It is covered by a surround. He had to remove a panel to expose the pipe.

 

[Kenster]

I don't quite understand how you went several months without seeing that gap in the pipe. Is that pipe not normally exposed to view or is there some sort of divider that hides it? It looks pretty obvious to me.

It is covered by a surround. He had to remove a panel to expose the pipe.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Jags]

I don't quite understand how you went several months without seeing that gap in the pipe. Is that pipe not normally exposed to view or is there some sort of divider that hides it? It looks pretty obvious to me.

It is covered by a surround. He had to remove a panel to expose the pipe.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying.

You sir, are very welcome.

 

[midwestcoast]

Why should I attach the insulation to the walls using tapcons? I'm not going to compress it, but why can't I layer it in there thickly around the stove?

That's to err on the safe side. The insert was never tested with insulation packed all over it so no-one can say whether the outer jacket could overheat....
By attaching the insulation to the fireplace walls you leave an air gap to keep the jacket from getting too hot.
I did this on my install with rockwool batts covered by sheet metal Tapcon'd into the mortar joints.
A well sealed block-off plate is more important IMO as moving air carries heat quickly.
Also if you do this don't insulate the surround panels as you want heat to conduct through them into the room. I mention that 'cause some inserts come with insulation for the surround.

 

[ansehnlich1]

Why should I attach the insulation to the walls using tapcons? I'm not going to compress it, but why can't I layer it in there thickly around the stove?

That's to err on the safe side. The insert was never tested with insulation packed all over it so no-one can say whether the outer jacket could overheat....
By attaching the insulation to the fireplace walls you leave an air gap to keep the jacket from getting too hot.
I did this on my install with rockwool batts covered by sheet metal Tapcon'd into the mortar joints.
A well sealed block-off plate is more important IMO as moving air carries heat quickly.
Also if you do this don't insulate the surround panels as you want heat to conduct through them into the room. I mention that 'cause some inserts come with insulation for the surround.

I agree, I'd be hesitant to stuff insulation in there right smack dab against the unit.

 

[joefrompa]

Update: Broken elbow was replaced this morning by the installer (who, i feel at this point, I should have had more faith in from the beginning....but hindsight is 20/20).

The story is this: his supplier (Olympia I believe) would always provide elbows in a welded straight, 15 degree, or 30 degree options and they'd fit the flex liner to the angle. For whatever reason, they (his supplier) started using another vendor who started to provide elbows which were 2 pieces crimped together rather than welded at the angle. The part numbers remained the same.

The elbow in question that was installed on mine was a crimp fit and obviously popped apart post install. It was replaced with the same part except the angle is welded all the way around robotically - it was a very clean weld line.

The chimney was swept from the bottom and was overall fairly clean - good amount of soot, but otherwise not bad at all. The thickest build-up was right around that opening.

Before re-assembling the surround, i shoved rock-woold up all around the liner to create a "block-off" effect.

At the installer's recommendation, I have e-mailed Lopi asking if it's ok to surround the rear of the stove with rock wool or whether the stove needs an air gap.

I'll start a new thread with a report after I fire it up and additional pictures, and report on stove performance.

Joe

 

[labrador]

Pen - About 5 minutes after I found it and expressed to my wife how I thought it had put us in danger, she told me we should pray and give thanks. Shamefully, I told her I was too angry to take the moment and concentrate, but I am now.

We've been having headaches, lethargy, and other things fairly often. She's taken alot of sick days this winter. I'm 28 years old, she turns 29 on Monday. We're both fit and exercise regularly and eat right. We're under decent stress levels though, so we attributed it to that. Now i'm wondering.

Those are some of the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning, if your detector is working properly it should have gone off. We just had a call lilke this where the CO detector went off. Your local fire company may have a portable detector to give you a more accurate reading. 35 ppm and above is dangerous and life threatening. This is from and EMT standpoint. Warren