ideal stove?

[Kristin]

This forum is fabulous. I would love to hear the collective wisdom on our situation. What would you think the idea stove would be for us?

We heat a 2000 sq ft house with one woodstove and no backup heating system. It's a two-story 1902 farmhouse, well insulated, woodstove on main floor, with a single crude register (a 12" hole sawed through the ceiling) to let the heat into the upstairs. We have an external chimney with a six inch opening. We live in northern NY so it does get good and cold here. In the past, the upstairs has been pretty chilly. We don't do much up there besides sleep, so we've lived with it. But it would be nice to be able to put our toddler to bed upstairs without her snowsuit.

Been using a late seventies or early eighties Garrison for the past six years, but I overfired it and warped it badly last year so that I can't load it enough to burn a fire all night. Instead of fixing it, we switched it out for our neighbor's old vermont castings vigilant, which should get us through this winter, but I am saving to buy us a new one. I would love to hear ideas and recommendations on size and type of stove, brands and models for our situation. Here are my desires, beyond the obvious (which is a comfortably warm house):

all night burn
even heat
indoor air quality
safety
efficiency
I would like to see the fire
a cooking surface would be nice
value

We are a farm, so even if we go away (which is rare) there is someone here to take care of things and stoke the stove. Also because we are a farm, price is always an issue. But since this is our sole source of heat, I'm willing to save to get the right stove, even if it is a stretch. Local rep has suggested the Oslo. What do you think?

-Kristin

 

[SolarAndWood]

Welcome to the forum Kristin. For value and view of flames, the big Englander stove at Home Depot or Lowes is a no-brainer for your application.

(broken link removed to http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-100291302/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

 

[fredarm]

Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 or T6. Steel firebox, cast iron exterior, and even has swing-out cooktops! Great heaters, easy to use.

 

[branchburner]

Jotul Oslo is good, but I'd step up to the bigger Jotul Firelight.

 

[Wet1]

Welcome to the forum Kristin. For value and view of flames, the big Englander stove at Home Depot or Lowes is a no-brainer for your application.

(broken link removed to http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-100291302/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

Agreed, I don't think you're going to find a better deal. If you can wait until the end of the season, these stove are often put on clearance at the big box stores for $800 or less... a fantastic value!

 

[Poult]

Hi, Kristin, from another Northern New York farmer

I LOVE my Isle Royale, but it wasn't a cheap stove. So if money is really tight you probably might not want to go for it, but it would be a good size for your house and it does have quite a useable cooktop. I didn't think going in that I would use the stove for much more than emergency cooking, but I use it all the time when the stove is going. (broken link removed to http://www.quadrafire.com/Products/Wood_Burning/Wood_Model.asp?f=IsleRoyale)

 

[Fsappo]

Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 or T6. Steel firebox, cast iron exterior, and even has swing-out cooktops! Great heaters, easy to use.

Not one of the brands I currently sell, but I have sold Pacific Energy in the past. It's a great quality stove, very efficient, burns great, glass stays amazingly clean and the option with the swing out cook top is great. It's not a cheap stove, but if you want to save up for a quality stove that you can buy thru a hearth dealer that can help you with customer service in the future, you'll be happy you spent the money( Not all hearth dealers offer the same level of service, so shop around and do your research)

Frank

 

[Bigg_Redd]

This forum is fabulous. I would love to hear the collective wisdom on our situation. What would you think the idea stove would be for us?

We heat a 2000 sq ft house with one woodstove and no backup heating system. It's a two-story 1902 farmhouse, well insulated, woodstove on main floor, with a single crude register (a 12" hole sawed through the ceiling) to let the heat into the upstairs. We have an external chimney with a six inch opening. We live in northern NY so it does get good and cold here. In the past, the upstairs has been pretty chilly. We don't do much up there besides sleep, so we've lived with it. But it would be nice to be able to put our toddler to bed upstairs without her snowsuit.

Been using a late seventies or early eighties Garrison for the past six years, but I overfired it and warped it badly last year so that I can't load it enough to burn a fire all night. Instead of fixing it, we switched it out for our neighbor's old vermont castings vigilant, which should get us through this winter, but I am saving to buy us a new one. I would love to hear ideas and recommendations on size and type of stove, brands and models for our situation. Here are my desires, beyond the obvious (which is a comfortably warm house):

all night burn
even heat
indoor air quality
safety
efficiency
I would like to see the fire
a cooking surface would be nice
value

We are a farm, so even if we go away (which is rare) there is someone here to take care of things and stoke the stove. Also because we are a farm, price is always an issue. But since this is our sole source of heat, I'm willing to save to get the right stove, even if it is a stretch. Local rep has suggested the Oslo. What do you think?

-Kristin

Kristin - Welcome aboard.

A bunch of guys are going to come along and ask you all kinds of ridiculous questions - the answers to which make no difference.

I recommend a big Pacific Energy. I always recommend PEs. Great efficiency. Great value. Very simple to use. Very good warrantee. And they come in various levels of fancy.

And with a PE you get your choice of a cast iron hull or a steel hull (same steel firebox in both).

The Oslo is a great stove but for less money you'll get a better (yes, I said it) and more efficient stove from Pacific Energy.

 

[firefighterjake]

This forum is fabulous. I would love to hear the collective wisdom on our situation. What would you think the idea stove would be for us?

We heat a 2000 sq ft house with one woodstove and no backup heating system. It's a two-story 1902 farmhouse, well insulated, woodstove on main floor, with a single crude register (a 12" hole sawed through the ceiling) to let the heat into the upstairs. We have an external chimney with a six inch opening. We live in northern NY so it does get good and cold here. In the past, the upstairs has been pretty chilly. We don't do much up there besides sleep, so we've lived with it. But it would be nice to be able to put our toddler to bed upstairs without her snowsuit.

Been using a late seventies or early eighties Garrison for the past six years, but I overfired it and warped it badly last year so that I can't load it enough to burn a fire all night. Instead of fixing it, we switched it out for our neighbor's old vermont castings vigilant, which should get us through this winter, but I am saving to buy us a new one. I would love to hear ideas and recommendations on size and type of stove, brands and models for our situation. Here are my desires, beyond the obvious (which is a comfortably warm house):

all night burn
even heat
indoor air quality
safety
efficiency
I would like to see the fire
a cooking surface would be nice
value

We are a farm, so even if we go away (which is rare) there is someone here to take care of things and stoke the stove. Also because we are a farm, price is always an issue. But since this is our sole source of heat, I'm willing to save to get the right stove, even if it is a stretch. Local rep has suggested the Oslo. What do you think?

-Kristin

Kristin . . . I don't think you would go wrong with any of the choices listed so far . . . Jotul Oslo . . or the PEs . . . the nice thing about the PEs is the swing out cooking surface, although technically you could probably cook up a stew or soup or similar meal on any stove top.

As for the rest of the desired features . . .

. . . all night burn (as long as you don't get too small a firebox you should be able to achieve this -- although the stoves with catalytic converters tend to burn longer -- i.e. Blaze King and Woodstock for example)

. . . even heat -- perhaps the best choices for this would be the cat stoves once again, although I don't tend to notice the "spikes" that some folks say come with using cast iron stoves -- I think a lot has to do with how you run the stove

. . . safety --most well known stove manufacturers seem to be on the same page -- just don't go with some oddball brand made somewhere in East China or Timbuktoo

. . . indoor air quality -- if you're like me you've seen the effect of having a stove with a poor draft or bad gaskets, heck, I thought it was normal to have a house smell like smoke if you used a woodstove . . . but this isn't the case . . . a good stove with a good draft should result in little to no smoke spillage or smell in the home

. . . efficiency -- I think you will find most of the EPA stoves are all pretty darn efficient . . . and very efficient compared to the older pre-EPA stoves

. . . view the fire -- I have some friends who wanted to get a cheap stove and they didn't really care if they saw the fire or not . . . and then they realized that with few exceptions, most all stoves have "glass" in them these days

. . . value -- if you're looking at bottom-line, good, inexpensive stoves Englanders are highly recommended . . . but I would say that getting what you want is a value unto itself . . . for me I wanted something that fit in with my home decor and would be decent . . . the Englander is a great stove, but I preferred the look of cast iron and so I sprung for a little more money . . . figuring that this would be something I would have for a very long time.

. . . cooking surface -- as mentioned, some of the stoves have optional cooking surfaces and swing out areas for cooking . . . but honestly, almost any stove with a flat surface could be used for cooking up stews and soups and some folks here are pretty good at even cooking with the coals

So in answer to your last question . . . I think the Oslo is a great stove and would serve you well . . . but there are also a lot of other stoves that would be just as good, if not better . . .

 

[firefighterjake]

This forum is fabulous. I would love to hear the collective wisdom on our situation. What would you think the idea stove would be for us?

We heat a 2000 sq ft house with one woodstove and no backup heating system. It's a two-story 1902 farmhouse, well insulated, woodstove on main floor, with a single crude register (a 12" hole sawed through the ceiling) to let the heat into the upstairs. We have an external chimney with a six inch opening. We live in northern NY so it does get good and cold here. In the past, the upstairs has been pretty chilly. We don't do much up there besides sleep, so we've lived with it. But it would be nice to be able to put our toddler to bed upstairs without her snowsuit.

Been using a late seventies or early eighties Garrison for the past six years, but I overfired it and warped it badly last year so that I can't load it enough to burn a fire all night. Instead of fixing it, we switched it out for our neighbor's old vermont castings vigilant, which should get us through this winter, but I am saving to buy us a new one. I would love to hear ideas and recommendations on size and type of stove, brands and models for our situation. Here are my desires, beyond the obvious (which is a comfortably warm house):

all night burn
even heat
indoor air quality
safety
efficiency
I would like to see the fire
a cooking surface would be nice
value

We are a farm, so even if we go away (which is rare) there is someone here to take care of things and stoke the stove. Also because we are a farm, price is always an issue. But since this is our sole source of heat, I'm willing to save to get the right stove, even if it is a stretch. Local rep has suggested the Oslo. What do you think?

-Kristin

. . .

The Oslo is a great stove but for less money you'll get a better (yes, I said it) and more efficient stove from Pacific Energy.

Hey now Red . . . I was OK with you picking on those soapstone stove lovers, but now you're going after my beloved Jotul?

 

[semipro]

I won't argue with the comments regarding PE versus Jotul. Despite already owning 2 Jotuls I strongly considered buying a PE but we have no local dealers.

I think the opinions voiced on this board would have more value and credibility if posters listed what equipment they owned in their signatures or post.

 

[Ratman]

Buy once, buy right.
Get an Elm Wood Stove

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I won't argue with the comments regarding PE versus Jotul. Despite already owning 2 Jotuls I strongly considered buying a PE but we have no local dealers.

I think the opinions voiced on this board would have more value and credibility if posters listed what equipment they owned in their signatures or post.

Well now we all know. Thanks.

 

[madrone]

Lopi Liberty?

 

[woodjack]

The Oslo is a great stove but for less money you'll get a better (yes, I said it) and more efficient stove from Pacific Energy.

BigRedd
Just curious, how do you know that PE's are more efficient than Jotuls, or any other brand? Don't tell me that "PE says so". The advertised ratings are unreliable.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

BigRedd
Just curious, how do you know that PE's are more efficient than Jotuls, or any other brand? Don't tell me that "PE says so". The advertised ratings are unreliable.

That assertion is based on the several statements made by Oslo owners that find some difficulty in achieving all night burns and with no special planning and with "softwood" I can get all night burns with my PE (as do 2 of my buddies with PEs)

I guess we can quibble about what "efficiency" is but having almost bought a Jotul (dealer sells both) I went with PE because it's simpler, less expensive, and more efficient (burns longer).


EDIT: FTR - I'm not saying Jotul aren't good stoves, I'm simply saying that they are over-priced and they under-perform.

 

[Kristin]

OK, this is a reason to love the internet. Thank you, everyone, for your responses. It's so great to hear opinions from people who are actually using these products. Will keep checking back, now that I've found this forum.

My husband is advocating for patiently looking for the perfect used stove that would have been an expensive stove if we'd bought it new. Right now, we're waiting for parts for the scavenged stove we're going to use this winter to get by. It has been a very chilly week, so I'm feeling less and less patient. This morning it was almost forty, and the house felt practically balmy. I have been arguing that if you amortize the cost of the stove over its useful lifetime, and factor in the money we are not spending on fuel oil, we should feel free to get exactly what we want, because it's a bargain any way you look at it. But I suppose if we can find exactly what we want, used, I could think of a lot of other places to spend the money we'd save. Any thoughts on buying used? And thank you, again, for the thoughtful responses.

 

[Pagey]

OK, this is a reason to love the internet. Thank you, everyone, for your responses. It's so great to hear opinions from people who are actually using these products. Will keep checking back, now that I've found this forum.

My husband is advocating for patiently looking for the perfect used stove that would have been an expensive stove if we'd bought it new. Right now, we're waiting for parts for the scavenged stove we're going to use this winter to get by. It has been a very chilly week, so I'm feeling less and less patient. This morning it was almost forty, and the house felt practically balmy. I have been arguing that if you amortize the cost of the stove over its useful lifetime, and factor in the money we are not spending on fuel oil, we should feel free to get exactly what we want, because it's a bargain any way you look at it. But I suppose if we can find exactly what we want, used, I could think of a lot of other places to spend the money we'd save. Any thoughts on buying used? And thank you, again, for the thoughtful responses.

Keep in mind that some stoves will qualify for the tax credit the government is currently handing out. It doesn't specify that the stove MUST be new, but it does require a certificate from the manufacturer stating their stove qualifies. Installation costs can be covered by the credit as well.

 

[kenny chaos]

My husband is advocating for patiently looking for the perfect used stove that would have been an expensive stove if we'd bought it new. .

Smart man. The Lopi Liberty is the fancy, expensive, equivalent of the aforementioned Englander 30.
They will give you what you need and want.
While waiting for the Englander to go on sale I kept checking Craigslist and found the Liberty with one season on it.
I bought it, cheap, and I'm glad I did.


Did you mention you liked to cook?
(last Sunday's dinner in our old farm kitchen)

 

[John_M]

Kristin,
You have received many good and helpful suggestions. Pagey is right about placing the 30% or $1,500 maximum Federal Tax Credit on your list of priorities. Many of the current EPA Phase II stoves qualify for this credit. Check the manufacturers' web sites to determine if the stove you want qualifies. There are links here on hearth.com and at ((broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/library.htm)) describing the details.

Here are some of my thoughts: Unless you are very familiar with the specific used stove you are considering, I would recommend against purchasing a used stove. In some cases the seller is just trying to dump the stove because of problems with the unit.

It would appear that living in a 1906, 2 story, 2,000 sq.ft. farm house in upstate NY you would want a stove in the "large" category with a rated output of 85,000 BTU's of more. These newer EPA Phase II stoves are more efficient, cleaner burning, and give off more heat with less wood than the pre-EPA Phase II models. I would argue that with newer construction methods, more efficient burn technology, better door seals and an outside air kit (OAK) the newer stoves will allow less smoke FROM THE STOVE into the house. Others will take issue with my last statement because smoke in the house is a function of many factors-not just the stove. That is why I emphasized "FROM THE STOVE" in that sentence.

When purchasing your new stove do it right the first time. Buy exactly the stove you want, even if you must stretch your finances a little, because it will last you many years. Be certain you install it safely, following the various manufacturers' instructions for the stove, hearth, stovepipe and chimney. Don't compromise on safety to save a few dollars. Your daughter's life may depend on the safety of the installation.

Good luck with your purchase and Best Wishes,

John_M

 

[Fsappo]

BigRedd
Just curious, how do you know that PE's are more efficient than Jotul, or any other brand? Don't tell me that "PE says so". The advertised ratings are unreliable.

That assertion is based on the several statements made by Oslo owners that find some difficulty in achieving all night burns and with no special planning and with "softwood" I can get all night burns with my PE (as do 2 of my buddies with PEs)

I guess we can quibble about what "efficiency" is but having almost bought a Jotul (dealer sells both) I went with PE because it's simpler, less expensive, and more efficient (burns longer).


EDIT: FTR - I'm not saying Jotul aren't good stoves, I'm simply saying that they are over-priced and they under-perform.

I burned an Oslo in my showroom on Long Island for years. 10 hour burns were easy without much planning when loading. As far as overpriced, that of course means they are not worth the money to you, not over priced in general. Thats like saying a Corvette is overpriced because an 80 year old grandma can't turn the 1/4 mile in 16 seconds using manual transmission. Or a steak at a 5 star steak house for $40 is overpriced because someone once got a steak served cold there...and heck,you can get yerself a steak dinner at the Home Deeper for $3. Same thing right?It's all in the eye of the user.

As far as customer satisfaction, our company used to sell 200 or so Jotul a year (+200 quads and 100+ other brands) Of all the free standing stoves we sold, the Oslo and the 4300 step top quad were the two stoves we had the happiest customers with. That Oslo was our bread and butter.

But for this reader, I still suggest that PE with the cook top

 

[firefighterjake]

OK, this is a reason to love the internet. Thank you, everyone, for your responses. It's so great to hear opinions from people who are actually using these products. Will keep checking back, now that I've found this forum.

My husband is advocating for patiently looking for the perfect used stove that would have been an expensive stove if we'd bought it new. Right now, we're waiting for parts for the scavenged stove we're going to use this winter to get by. It has been a very chilly week, so I'm feeling less and less patient. This morning it was almost forty, and the house felt practically balmy. I have been arguing that if you amortize the cost of the stove over its useful lifetime, and factor in the money we are not spending on fuel oil, we should feel free to get exactly what we want, because it's a bargain any way you look at it. But I suppose if we can find exactly what we want, used, I could think of a lot of other places to spend the money we'd save. Any thoughts on buying used? And thank you, again, for the thoughtful responses.

My thoughts on buying used . . .

Buying used can offer a great deal . . . or a very bad deal. It depends on whether or not you know what you're looking for and if you know what you need/want in a stove.

For example, if you know that you want brand X and Model Y, settling for brand A and Model B with a smaller firebox or perhaps a stove that has a checkered history will not be a good deal at all if you end up not being able to adequately heating your home, run into problems running the stove since it is notoriously difficult to run, or you end up with problems replacing faulty parts, etc.

Buying used can also be exasperating if you don't know what to look for . . . buying an over-priced stove just based on the name can be a bad bet . . . as can buying a stove without knowing what the signs of an over-fired or abused stove look like. Don't buy a stove based solely on how pretty the exterior looks or how many gee-whiz nifty features it has . . . or because it was "only used for a year." Experience with some ads has shown me that a "two" or "three" year old stove listed in the ad can sometimes in fact be 7-10 years old . . . and just because it's pretty on the outside doesn't mean it wasn't overfired or abused. Also, some folks seem to think their stoves are worth a lot more than they really are -- based solely on the maker . . . I've seen many a Jotul, Fisher and Ashley listed for sale at some pretty outrageous prices . . .

That said . . . if you know what you want and know what to look for . . . buying used can be a decent deal . . . especially if the product is in good shape, relatively new and if it qualifies for the tax credit.

In my case, being inexperienced, it was worth buying new for the peace of mind and knowledge that the stove I was buying had never been over-fired or abused . . . and I ended up getting what I wanted when I wanted . . . yes, it was more expensive . . . but I figured it out and in another two or three years I will have easily "paid" off the woodstove, chimney and install . . . heck with the price of oil last year the pay off period would have been even less time had the prices remained as high as they were estimating.

 

[woodjack]

I bought used - and got lucky. You can, too, but be smart about it.
Knowing what i know now, I think it's best to buy a properly sized, high quality, EPA stove. If you can find one used, great. You may save a boatload of $$$. But DON"T buy just any stove on CL because it looks like a good deal. Wood stoves are one of those things to buy the best you can afford - this is your everyday heat!

 

[Martin Strand III]

I have been around a while, burned many things in many types of stoves, so, I have a pretty good idea of what characteristics comprise an "ideal stove".

The ideal stove would

*be very affordable, cheap actually
*allow easy installation by owner and have no upkeep, no ashes
*burn all cellulose 100% efficiently, fresh roadkill 98% efficiently
*have no smoke or carbon footprint, thus no regulations on burning
*not adversely affect homeowners insurance premiums
*heat the whole house w/o fans and keep bedrooms cool for sleeping
*work equally well on the main floor or basement
*require reloading only once per season
*not get so hot it could burn skin but still cook chicken to a golden brown
*never downdraft, backdraft or spill smoke into the house
*not require any chimney or outside air
*be completely safe
*look marvelous in any home and keep morning coffee "just right"
*always set the mood for heavy duty cuddling
*last indefinitely

If you come across such a stove, be sure to let me know.

Aye,
Marty

 

[branchburner]

Odds of finding a great, nearly-new used EPA stove are low, but not zero. Best bet is someone who's switched to pellets or is moving. Worst bet is someone who needs a newer or bigger stove; that probably means they ran the older one too hard.

After I decided I wanted an Oakwood I found two that were only a year old, and half the price of new. Both turned out to have damaged parts. Figured that out after the purchase. New is new, used is used.