If this is true It's not fair either.

[bostonbaked]

I was told in a conversation with a Harmon dealer not long ago that some people were going into several shops and placing orders. They would put a deposit on their credit card for each order. When any dealer calls and says we have your stove they cancel the other orders. They said that was part of the problem with the short supply. I don't know if it's true but if it is that's screwing everybody. Any body else heard anything like this or are they selling me an urban legend ?

 

[bungalobob]

Wouldn't be surprised if it is true, and if it is, the rest of us who are waiting for the one dealer to deliver may actually get theirs on time or earlier. Plus, there could actually wind up being a whole lot of extras on the floors and warehouses of some dealers after the rush is over. Crazy times of insanity are upon us.

 

[JustWood]

I believe it. I have wood customers that do the same thing . Whoever gets there with the wood first wins. It usually only happens in Nov. and Dec.
I have a customer list and when this happens a notation is made on their account and they are told to get their wood earlier the next year. If it happens again the following year another notation is made and they are told they can keep buying from whoever brings it first but NOT me unless they decide to call me in the spring then I will put them on the delivery list.

I have been in the wood business 21 year this Nov and have been called every name in the book because I couldn't deliver exactly when a customer wanted his wood in Nov. and Dec. Don't have much time for B.S. like this.

I don't have much sympathy for those waiting for a stove and pulling this kind of stunt. The price of oil has shot up almost 400% in the last 10 years. Peak Oil has been all over the net for that same amount of time and the "green movement" has been on the fast track for at least 20 years. No one can say "they didn't see it coming" (high oil prices). It's long over due for this country to get off their AZZ and do something on an individual basis toward energy independence and not point their finger at the govt when prices get out of hand.

I'll bet the dealers and manufacturers will get wise to this and start cross checking credit card deposits and/or delivery address.

 

[BubbRubb]

Simply making part of the deposit non-refundable unless the dealer cannot get the stove by a certain date would put a stop to a great deal of it.

 

[webbie]

I 100% believe that is happening...along with many other such behaviors. This is exactly why Harman is SMART for not pumping up production too far. I have seen customers and dealers drive manufacturers right out of business by placing "ghost" orders.

Heck, we had one member who who called 40 shops in one day! When you consider that type of excitement, placing backup orders looks like nothing....

 

[bostonbaked]

This is why I posed the question. It's obvious from my posts that I,m not happy with my particular dealer. That said, I think this a totally crappy thing to pull on the dealers. It would explain a lot. I think the cross checking of orders (already suggested )would be a good idea. I don't like to get screwed with and the dealer I'm sure don't like it either.This is just plain wrong and messes up everyone orders.

 

[kbjelka]

I think if customers were provided accurate information it would solve 99% of these problems.

 

[STOVEGUY11]

All the information given within the last month is mostly accurate. It was mostly June with the issues of ship dates.

 

[bostonbaked]

Grounghog, I'll tell you what if what you said happened in my case I would have had no problems. One lie must always beget another to cover for the first. And that leads to another and so on and then the lies start to add up. And people get testy when you catch them and call them on it. Once a liar always a liar. Telling the truth never got me in trouble.

 

[BubbRubb]

I think if customers were provided accurate information it would solve 99% of these problems.

You must be from the older generation. The younger generation in America is clearly "Gotta have it now!" and will do anything and borrow as much as it takes to have it immediately.

 

[Turbozcs2003]

I 100% believe that is happening...along with many other such behaviors. This is exactly why Harman is SMART for not pumping up production too far. I have seen customers and dealers drive manufacturers right out of business by placing "ghost" orders.

Heck, we had one member who who called 40 shops in one day! When you consider that type of excitement, placing backup orders looks like nothing....

All Harman has to do is have the dealer enter the name adress, phone and credit card # of the customer with the order and enter it into their production system. Harman should(if they are smart business people) be shipping first in ,first out on pre-sold basis, ie all presold with depositis get shipped first. They could query the orders by name or credit card # and then deal accordingly and notify any/all dealers where a customer has pulled a stunt like that. Then they could cull out these and with hold shipment for those people. This isnt a difficult thing to do and most reputable businesses would handle it this way. No reason to ship unsold stoves while customers with deposits are waiting.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

That's why I don't do refundable deposits.

If for some reason I can't do the job, the deposit will be refunded (along with many apologies, and probably some free material, although I've never had it actually happen). If a customer changes their mind, that's their problem. Once they sign the contract and pay the deposit, I order the material for the job. They have an "out" in that they can pay me for what I've done so far at any time. In other words, if I show up with the boiler and they want to have someone else do the install, they can pay me for the boiler and that's that. Heck, if we're halfway through the install, they can pay me for the materials and labor that have been used so far.

But if you order a piece of equipment, you're getting that piece of equipment. If you want to shop around for prices, the time to do that is before putting down a deposit.

Joe

 

[bostonbaked]

That's why I don't do refundable deposits.

If for some reason I can't do the job, the deposit will be refunded (along with many apologies, and probably some free material, although I've never had it actually happen). If a customer changes their mind, that's their problem. Once they sign the contract and pay the deposit, I order the material for the job. They have an "out" in that they can pay me for what I've done so far at any time. In other words, if I show up with the boiler and they want to have someone else do the install, they can pay me for the boiler and that's that. Heck, if we're halfway through the install, they can pay me for the materials and labor that have been used so far.

But if you order a piece of equipment, you're getting that piece of equipment. If you want to shop around for prices, the time to do that is before putting down a deposit.

Joe

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. In fact generous. Good for you. But most of the stories listed here seem to be because a lot of folks don't have your scruples.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. In fact generous. Good for you. But most of the stories listed here seem to be because a lot of folks don't have your scruples.

Annoying customers is bad business. There's the old 3/11 rule... if someone likes what you did, they will tell 3 people. If someone is upset, they will tell 11 people. They may not like that I hold them to their contract, so I would lose 3 potential referrals. But letting them get out of the contract based upon work already completed avoids getting 11 potential complaints.

If you're trying to make big bucks this season, that doesn't matter much. If you're trying to be in business for the next few decades, you don't want complaints piling up...

Don't starve yourself today for the sake of next year. But don't do things which will make you starve next year, just so you can pig out today. All business is a balance. "The customer is always right" will starve you today. "The customer is always wrong" might let you bludgeon some money out of folks right now with the hard sell, but it will starve you next year.

How about "the customer is never wrong" as a business motto? When the customer comes in, and they are not right, your job is to find out what is missing to make them right...

Joe

 

[bostonbaked]

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. In fact generous. Good for you. But most of the stories listed here seem to be because a lot of folks don't have your scruples.

Annoying customers is bad business. There's the old 3/11 rule... if someone likes what you did, they will tell 3 people. If someone is upset, they will tell 11 people. They may not like that I hold them to their contract, so I would lose 3 potential referrals. But letting them get out of the contract based upon work already completed avoids getting 11 potential complaints.

If you're trying to make big bucks this season, that doesn't matter much. If you're trying to be in business for the next few decades, you don't want complaints piling up...

Don't starve yourself today for the sake of next year. But don't do things which will make you starve next year, just so you can pig out today. All business is a balance. "The customer is always right" will starve you today. "The customer is always wrong" might let you bludgeon some money out of folks right now with the hard sell, but it will starve you next year.

How about "the customer is never wrong" as a business motto? When the customer comes in, and they are not right, your job is to find out what is missing to make them right...

Joe

I like the way you think and also the way you express yourself. I bet you do very well Old sayings are old sayings because they ring true. I always tell people about the 3/11 rule my self. Another one that comes to mind is (PIGS GET FAT, HOGS GET SLAUGHTERED )

 

[JustWood]

That's why I don't do refundable deposits.

If for some reason I can't do the job, the deposit will be refunded (along with many apologies, and probably some free material, although I've never had it actually happen). If a customer changes their mind, that's their problem. Once they sign the contract and pay the deposit, I order the material for the job. They have an "out" in that they can pay me for what I've done so far at any time. In other words, if I show up with the boiler and they want to have someone else do the install, they can pay me for the boiler and that's that. Heck, if we're halfway through the install, they can pay me for the materials and labor that have been used so far.

But if you order a piece of equipment, you're getting that piece of equipment. If you want to shop around for prices, the time to do that is before putting down a deposit.

Joe

Good business practice and perfectly legal. Most purchase contracts for large purchases over $1000 are set up this way.

I always tell wood customers who are pushy and anxious to get their wood " give me a credit card # or come to my office and pay me in full, when your check clears the bank you'll be the first to get your wood no matter how long my list is". Not to many peolple are willing to do this. They want COD.

 

[bostonbaked]

That's why I don't do refundable deposits.

If for some reason I can't do the job, the deposit will be refunded (along with many apologies, and probably some free material, although I've never had it actually happen). If a customer changes their mind, that's their problem. Once they sign the contract and pay the deposit, I order the material for the job. They have an "out" in that they can pay me for what I've done so far at any time. In other words, if I show up with the boiler and they want to have someone else do the install, they can pay me for the boiler and that's that. Heck, if we're halfway through the install, they can pay me for the materials and labor that have been used so far.

But if you order a piece of equipment, you're getting that piece of equipment. If you want to shop around for prices, the time to do that is before putting down a deposit.

Joe

Good business practice and perfectly legal. Most purchase contracts for large purchases over $1000 are set up this way.

I always tell wood customers who are pushy and anxious to get their wood " give me a credit card # or come to my office and pay me in full, when your check clears the bank you'll be the first to get your wood no matter how long my list is". Not to many peolple are willing to do this. They want COD.

I think part of the problem is the sale of a pellet stove is not taken seriousely enough by the dealer. They act as if your ordering a pizza not a heating system. Three to five grand is a lot of cash in my world. If I was buying a new Boiler I know it's taken way more seriously at least where I live. Like you said there is formal proposal followed by a contract, a real contract. Not a slip of paper a simple sales receipt I know ,been through it before. People who take on this form of heat are hands on people from what I see. This board is a perfect example of that fact. Folks have invested a lot of valuable time doing their research and don't want to settle for what they may perceive as second best or not up to their particular task. The place I bought my stove sells lot of other related stuff and to them the purchase is no more important then getting a big smoker grill as far as they see it. I think the key is perception what may seem like no big deal to one person is a very big deal to another. And the guy who wants the big smoker grill deserves the same respect. He's putting the food on the dealers table and he should never forget it. End of rant Ah that felt good.