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[MontanaLife]

Hello. Need knowledge. Grew up (NW Montana) with wood heat and Ben Franklin stoves. Have purchased a rural 2017 home with 1152 sq ft and cathedral ceiling. Gambrel roof situation. Only a Rinnai propane heater that has not kept the house warm. Ex: we had a stretch of -25°F, the propane heat and many space heaters and the house was 52°. Sometimes we get a lot of snow, and it can get well below zero. I'm on my own for getting wood and buying a stove. I have and have used, and know how to use, a chainsaw, a truck, and a trailer. I can split wood and I enjoy doing so. I have access to wood from a lumber mill, 25 dollars for a trailer load in board form. I've burned it before but in a fireplace.
-We don't have hardwood here. It's fir, spruce, larch, and pine.
-wood sellers here are ALL random guys who get wood for a living and I'm sure most of them don't sell a true cord.. it's usually some half ton truck with 4 rows stacked lower than the Cab and called a cord. 250 dollars and up.. Maybe dry or not.
I'll list questions and hope for answers as I tend to get wordy.
PS I'm female.
* stove recommendations? Locally available are Pleasant Hearth, US Stove, Ashley Hearth, Vermont castings, and a few others. Have to buy locally to have it installed.
*stove size?
* any idea how many cords I'd need?
Thank you in advance.

 

[Ashful]

Other than being female, your woodburning experience is much the same as mine was, when I showed up here a dozen years ago. Grew up in a house with four fireplaces, and had only ever used very old style stoves.

Good modern stoves mostly rely on a "reburn" system, a secondary combustion system designed to burn off all the nasty volatiles in the exhaust belched out of older stoves. These are generally called "EPA stoves", because they follow the EPA emissions mandates, and fall into two categories: catalytic and non-catalytic. They both work the same way, with the catalyst only allowing that reburn to happen at a lower temperature, and making longer burn times (due to lower burn rates) possible. Both can hit pretty similar net efficiency numbers, so don't get too hung up on that.

The caveat here is that these "reburn" systems all require dry wood, as any moisture in the wood much above 20% won't allow the sort of exhaust temperatures required to maintain active reburn. So, you'll be getting plenty of recommendations to start sourcing next year's wood now. Those of us burning a lot of hardwoods try to stay about 3 years ahead, to give our wood 3 summers to dry, although you'll be able to get away with a shorter cycle (1-2 summers) on most softwoods.

Budget will dictate a lot of your choices, as there are many more reasonably good non-cats available at lower price points. Good cat stoves generally tend to cost more, excepting some of the older designs that did not work very well. That said, cat stoves offer some performance advantages, which is how they continue to survive in the market, despite the higher price tag.

A good starting point on heat load might be to total the BTU's of that Rinnnai and all of your space heaters, knowing you're going to want to be somewhere above that. We could even try a rough calculation based on your temp delta experienced on your coldest nights. A house as small as yours would normally dictate a small non-cat (short burn times) or a mid-size cat stove (longer burn times), but your experience with the Rinnai and space heaters indicates your heat demand is likely higher than one would expect for 1100 sf.

Welcome aboard! Paging @Dix, she'll probably want to say hi.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Welcome!

The first advice I'd offer is to start putting wood up. Wood burns better if there is less moisture in it, and it can take a while for the moisture to leave it. Getting it up now will give you a much less frustrating experience later on.

The second thing I would look at is if there's any way to increase the insulation in your home. Air sealing is super important too, and it can often be done with caulk and a bit of time chasing down leaks.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

As to number of cords... theres no way to precisely know, but most people burn around 4. You're in a pretty cold area, so I'd get 5 and see how that works.

 

[stoveliker]

Apart from pleasant hearth (of which I have not seen much) the other brands you list are not much recommended here.

Look at Drolet for solid, lower priced stoves.

How tall is the chimney? Is it safe? Has it been inspected? Inside or outside? Insulated liner?

 

[Ashful]

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[MontanaLife]

Welcome!

The first advice I'd offer is to start putting wood up. Wood burns better if there is less moisture in it, and it can take a while for the moisture to leave it. Getting it up now will give you a much less frustrating experience later on.

The second thing I would look at is if there's any way to increase the insulation in your home. Air sealing is super important too, and it can often be done with caulk and a bit of time chasing down leaks.

Thank you. The house was built in 2017 and it has that insulation made from recycled denim. I did forget to say that the upstairs water froze several times. I will start getting firewood as soon as next month. I did go in below the house to close some vents in the foundation. Used thick drapes and curtains. That did help some.

 

[MontanaLife]

Apart from pleasant hearth (of which I have not seen much) the other brands you list are not much recommended here.

Look at Drolet for solid, lower priced stoves.

How tall is the chimney? Is it safe? Has it been inspected? Inside or outside? Insulated liner?

I've heard of Lopi stoves. Is that a good one? I've also heard of Drolet.
There is no chimney yet. It will have to be installed with the stove. The ceiling is 20 feet. With the gambrel barn style roof I think the chimney will have to go in the middle.

 

[EbS-P]

A few things.

The knowledge on this forum and its helpfulness is unlike any other I’ve ever been on.

Invest some time to learn. It will really pay off.

Will this be a DIY installation?

Most wood takes more than a summer to dry. Make a plan that will allow multiple seasons of wood to be stored and dried. Unless everything goes perfect your first year won’t go as smoothly as those that come after. We all learn as we go.

Plan on chimney costing as much as the stove (or more if get a value oriented stove).

If I were buying a new stove and I was planning on heating 100% with wood it would be a blaze king Ashford. That’s probably the most expensive stove on my list. After that a pacific energy. And because I’m cheap my last stove was a Drolet. It’s solid. Plan on adding a manual key damper above the stove as you will have 20+ feet of chimney.

 

[gthomas785]

With a 20' ceiling plan on getting a big ceiling fan along with the stove.

 

[mari]

Other than being female, your woodburning experience is much the same as mine was, when I showed up here a dozen years ago. Grew up in a house with four fireplaces, and had only ever used very old style stoves.

Good modern stoves mostly rely on a "reburn" system, a secondary combustion system designed to burn off all the nasty volatiles in the exhaust belched out of older stoves. These are generally called "EPA stoves", because they follow the EPA emissions mandates, and fall into two categories: catalytic and non-catalytic. They both work the same way, with the catalyst only allowing that reburn to happen at a lower temperature, and making longer burn times (due to lower burn rates) possible. Both can hit pretty similar net efficiency numbers, so don't get too hung up on that.

The caveat here is that these "reburn" systems all require dry wood, as any moisture in the wood much above 20% won't allow the sort of exhaust temperatures required to maintain active reburn. So, you'll be getting plenty of recommendations to start sourcing next year's wood now. Those of us burning a lot of hardwoods try to stay about 3 years ahead, to give our wood 3 summers to dry, although you'll be able to get away with a shorter cycle (1-2 summers) on most softwoods.

Budget will dictate a lot of your choices, as there are many more reasonably good non-cats available at lower price points. Good cat stoves generally tend to cost more, excepting some of the older designs that did not work very well. That said, cat stoves offer some performance advantages, which is how they continue to survive in the market, despite the higher price tag.

A good starting point on heat load might be to total the BTU's of that Rinnnai and all of your space heaters, knowing you're going to want to be somewhere above that. We could even try a rough calculation based on your temp delta experienced on your coldest nights. A house as small as yours would normally dictate a small non-cat (short burn times) or a mid-size cat stove (longer burn times), but your experience with the Rinnai and space heaters indicates your heat demand is likely higher than one would expect for 1100 sf.

Welcome aboard! Paging @Dix, she'll probably want to say hi.

The "EPA" stoves have a 30% tax credit this year.

 

[begreen]

I've heard of Lopi stoves. Is that a good one? I've also heard of Drolet.

Drolet is a value stove but a notch above those mentioned. The Drolet Escape 1800 is a good fit. If the goal is to heat 24/7 for the winter, then invest a bit more in a stove that's going to last. Lopi makes some premium stoves. The Lopi Endeavor would also be a good fit. It's a premium stove that will last a long time. It's also able to load a 16" split N/S. You'll want at least a 2 cu ft stove due to the cathedral ceiling. There also should be a ceiling fan or two up there to help circulate that heat that is going to pocket up near the peak.

It's good to be circumspect about wood sellers. You are correct, many will short a cord. A 1/2 ton pickup load will be about a face cord or 1/3d of a full cord. A tightly stacked, 8' bed, 1 ton pickup with sides is needed for a full cord load. Always assume that the wood is not fully seasoned. Wood that was felled the year before but split a week ago is not seasoned. Ask when it was split. A wood shed will help the wood dry out of the elements. In lieu of that, stack the wood off the ground and top cover it. Fir, larch, or pine that is split, stacked, and top-covered this month will be ready to burn in late October. Larch will have the highest heat output. Try to orient the stacks so that the prevailing summer winds can blow through them for quicker drying. Same thing for orienting the shed.

Is the wood from the lumber yard slabwood? That can be an ok fuel, but it's a bit harder to load in a stove and can have a lot of bark which will burn, but not always ideal.

Is the house floorplan open or closed-off rooms? Will the wood stove be on the main floor? Is there an existing chimney or will this be a completely new installation? Start asking around for the best chimney sweep in the area. Get references. That person might be an alternative for the installation if competent.

 

[begreen]

The "EPA" stoves have a 30% tax credit this year.

This only applies to those with an HHV of 75% or higher.

 

[mari]

Hello. Need knowledge. Grew up (NW Montana) with wood heat and Ben Franklin stoves. Have purchased a rural 2017 home with 1152 sq ft and cathedral ceiling. Gambrel roof situation. Only a Rinnai propane heater that has not kept the house warm. Ex: we had a stretch of -25°F, the propane heat and many space heaters and the house was 52°. Sometimes we get a lot of snow, and it can get well below zero. I'm on my own for getting wood and buying a stove. I have and have used, and know how to use, a chainsaw, a truck, and a trailer. I can split wood and I enjoy doing so. I have access to wood from a lumber mill, 25 dollars for a trailer load in board form. I've burned it before but in a fireplace.
-We don't have hardwood here. It's fir, spruce, larch, and pine.
-wood sellers here are ALL random guys who get wood for a living and I'm sure most of them don't sell a true cord.. it's usually some half ton truck with 4 rows stacked lower than the Cab and called a cord. 250 dollars and up.. Maybe dry or not.
I'll list questions and hope for answers as I tend to get wordy.
PS I'm female.
* stove recommendations? Locally available are Pleasant Hearth, US Stove, Ashley Hearth, Vermont castings, and a few others. Have to buy locally to have it installed.
*stove size?
* any idea how many cords I'd need?
Thank you in advance.

See if there's a Kuma dealer near you. Built in Idaho.

 

[stoveliker]

A chimney in the middle is perfect, especially if it may be windy it snowy there.

Go for double wall inside (and, naturally, class A has to be outside).

If you have fir, it may in fact be good after one summer of drying.

I second the ceiling fan.

 

[qwee]

It sounds like you already know about trying to find a central location for the new stove - avoid the outer walls if you can.

I live in Idaho. Western forests are different from Eastern forests. Geologically, the fir/pine forests come first before the hardwood forests - so they are more monolithic. That is, many of the same tree species densely packed together. So more die-off occurs. Your area is really dense with big trees - finding wood shouldn't be an issue.

Are you going to be harvesting on your own land or in the national forests? Look for dead standing or dead fallen trees, first. I think the permits only allow the harvest of dead trees. This wood will be ready to burn right away (maybe some wet wood down by the trunk). Felling a dead standing Doug Fir could be kind of scary because most are so big. Maybe start with smaller dead trees or downed trees. Or keep getting the mill scraps. You could get leftovers from logging areas, also.

I watch this guy/family sometimes - they aren't too far from you. Good luck!

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[stoveliker]

if felling dead standing wood, please, please wear a helmet. Branches coming down on your noggin suck big time.

 

[MontanaLife]

A few things.

The knowledge on this forum and its helpfulness is unlike any other I’ve ever been on.

Invest some time to learn. It will really pay off.

Will this be a DIY installation?

Most wood takes more than a summer to dry. Make a plan that will allow multiple seasons of wood to be stored and dried. Unless everything goes perfect your first year won’t go as smoothly as those that come after. We all learn as we go.

Plan on chimney costing as much as the stove (or more if get a value oriented stove).

If I were buying a new stove and I was planning on heating 100% with wood it would be a blaze king Ashford. That’s probably the most expensive stove on my list. After that a pacific energy. And because I’m cheap my last stove was a Drolet. It’s solid. Plan on adding a manual key damper above the stove as you will have 20+ feet of chimney.

This will be a professional install. I have access to kiln dried wood for $25 a trailer load. It's from a lumber mill. Boards that didn't make grade. Will be needing cut up. I have a 3 bay shop with saws. So I will have dry wood to mix with cord wood.

 

[MontanaLife]

if felling dead standing wood, please, please wear a helmet. Branches coming down on your noggin suck big time.

Yes, thank you. My father, brother, and uncles were loggers. I wouldn't attempt anything large on my own.

 

[MontanaLife]

It sounds like you already know about trying to find a central location for the new stove - avoid the outer walls if you can.

I live in Idaho. Western forests are different from Eastern forests. Geologically, the fir/pine forests come first before the hardwood forests - so they are more monolithic. That is, many of the same tree species densely packed together. So more die-off occurs. Your area is really dense with big trees - finding wood shouldn't be an issue.

Are you going to be harvesting on your own land or in the national forests? Look for dead standing or dead fallen trees, first. I think the permits only allow the harvest of dead trees. This wood will be ready to burn right away (maybe some wet wood down by the trunk). Felling a dead standing Doug Fir could be kind of scary because most are so big. Maybe start with smaller dead trees or downed trees. Or keep getting the mill scraps. You could get leftovers from logging areas, also.

I watch this guy/family sometimes - they aren't too far from you. Good luck!

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Hi, the stove will be in the middle of the great room. I'll be cutting on forest service Land and possibly on some private land. I won't go alone, I have 2 grown children.

 

[MontanaLife]

See if there's a Kuma dealer near you. Built in Idaho.

Maybe in Sandpoint

 

[MontanaLife]

Drolet is a value stove but a notch above those mentioned. The Drolet Escape 1800 is a good fit. If the goal is to heat 24/7 for the winter, then invest a bit more in a stove that's going to last. Lopi makes some premium stoves. The Lopi Endeavor would also be a good fit. It's a premium stove that will last a long time. It's also able to load a 16" split N/S. You'll want at least a 2 cu ft stove due to the cathedral ceiling. There also should be a ceiling fan or two up there to help circulate that heat that is going to pocket up near the peak.

It's good to be circumspect about wood sellers. You are correct, many will short a cord. A 1/2 ton pickup load will be about a face cord or 1/3d of a full cord. A tightly stacked, 8' bed, 1 ton pickup with sides is needed for a full cord load. Always assume that the wood is not fully seasoned. Wood that was felled the year before but split a week ago is not seasoned. Ask when it was split. A wood shed will help the wood dry out of the elements. In lieu of that, stack the wood off the ground and top cover it. Fir, larch, or pine that is split, stacked, and top-covered this month will be ready to burn in late October. Larch will have the highest heat output. Try to orient the stacks so that the prevailing summer winds can blow through them for quicker drying. Same thing for orienting the shed.

Is the wood from the lumber yard slabwood? That can be an ok fuel, but it's a bit harder to load in a stove and can have a lot of bark which will burn, but not always ideal.

Is the house floorplan open or closed-off rooms? Will the wood stove be on the main floor? Is there an existing chimney or will this be a completely new installation? Start asking around for the best chimney sweep in the area. Get references. That person might be an alternative for the installation if competent.

Thank you. Yes there is a ceiling fan as well as a small fan mounted in the hallway to blow heat to the back rooms. They are closed off. The stove will be against a central wall. Kitchen to the left, living area to the right, dining area basically in front of the stove
Upstairs bedroom and bathroom above the stove, to the rear.
I don't have a wood shed so the wood will be stored in one bay of the shop. The wood from the mill is boards that the planer feederman throws out. Possibly too short, a stabbed end etc. Kiln dried. Species are a mix of Douglas Fir, Alpne Fir,
Hemlock, white pine, lodgepole, ponderosa, etc. Majority being fir and larch.

 

[MontanaLife]

With a 20' ceiling plan on getting a big ceiling fan along with the stove.

Have one.

 

[begreen]

Dry wood is ok to store indoors, green wood is better dried where there is good air circulation.

Your avatar location says Teague2012. That doesn't compute. I am checking to see what other stove brands might be in your area. What is the nearest city to your location?

PS: if the place is reasonably insulated 3 cords may be sufficient, especially if supplemented by the primary heating system.

 

[stoveliker]

Your stove location sounds like the *ideal* location to me. Nice!

I would advise to get a moisture meter; kiln dried boards might be good, but they might not be. Dead standing can be dry, but that also might not be. It's $30 or so and it'll allow you to be certain that 1. you have good wood for safe (less creosote) burning, and 2. gets you more heat into your home per pound of wood burned.

I think to narrow down stove choices, it's good to talk budget, keeping in mind that the flue is a significant part of that (though with a stove in the middle the most expensive part of the flue, the class A outside, will be conveniently minimized in length, so you might not meet the "stove = as expensive as the chimney" here).

And style preference.

Note that if you buy a stove that has an efficiency of 75% HHV or larger, you qualify for a tax credit of 30% - with a max of $2000, and that is for stove, chimney, AND install labor.