Insert Project about to start...

[Jlinz911]

I'm bout set on Quadra Fire Voyageur for my insert. My wife and I just like the look of the cast surround. Local shop $2995 for the box and surround delivered...

I have couple questions on install. I have old heatalator style fireplace. Damper is about rotted off it. Was planning on removing the damper and just cutting apart the remaining box to fit the flex liner. Is that sufficient??or should I cut apart the entire steel insert and remove completely??

The chimney top is my next concern. The chimney could honestly use some masonry work. But I'm not much of a mason or bricklayer. I jumped on the roof tonight to measure the opening and glance down the chimney. Looks ok but the top the mortar is a bit beat up. I dunno what I should do. Chimney flue itself is approx 11" in diameter

What's the best way to finish off the top? Was looking at a custom chase cover or busting the mortar up and just refinishing it myself.

Any input on the chimney cap?

 

[Sodbuster]

What's behind the old heatilator fireplace is it a masonry fireplace or is it an OSB chase. If masonry, I'd be inclined to rip as much of it out as possible, for a nice clean install. As for the chimney crown, you'll get a bunch of answers on this, but I'd vote for a custom fabricated Galvalume or SS crown cover. Your round 6" pipe will fit right through the hole and be sealed with a storm collar and then a new rain cap. There are a couple guys that know way more than I do, bholer and Squisher, hopefully they'll chime in with some good ideas. Good Luck!

 

[Squisher]

IMO if you have a heatilator metal heat form in a masonry fireplace I would only remove what is nescessary to fit the liner and nothing more. ripping the whole thing out could/would affect the stability of the structure at worst and at the least would make the existing fireplace non-compliant and technically not acceptable to put a insert in.

 

[Jlinz911]

will take some more pics of the existing fireplace insert tonight if I can...

There is no tubes on the top of the existing steel at the moment. The flue damper is well rotten and beat up pretty good. It appears I can take that out with very little issue and have maybe a 12 gauge piece of sheet metal to mod however i can to get it down into the firebox....I was thinking this would also make creating a damper plate much easier having some existing steel to fasten to.

The bottom picture is of the flue damper looking up from the fireplace box...Its really beat up....I dont doubt being able to cut it out with sawzall or cut off wheel and make the chimney insert fit...

My other question is with an 11" flue should I used Insulated flex liner or non-insulated??

My main concern with the project is how to finish it off at the chimney...Was looking at the Chimney Saver Crown Coat to brush over the current crown. Has anyone used this product with any success?

 

[bholler]

Well for starters yes insulate the liner. For the crown yours is in bad enough shape the crown coating materials won't work well. What I would recomend if I was doing the job is take off the old crown and the top 2 courses. That are in bad shape and step back in. Then form and pour a crown overhanging 1.5" with a drip edge and a bond break under it and expansion joint around the clay. A stainless cover would work fine too I just prefer the look of masonry. And do not use galvanized it won't hold up that well.

 

[Jlinz911]

I guess maybe the first thing I NEED to do is get this chimney up to snuff and go from there...

 

[bholler]

I guess maybe the first thing I NEED to do is get this chimney up to snuff and go from there...

Nah install the stove and liner take care of the masonry in the spring. Or get a stainless cover made now

 

[yooper08]

+1 to only cutting out what you need to of the old heat form. That's what I had done, then I stuffed the air gap behind the the old firebox with Roxul to insulate the fireplace.

 

[Hogwildz]

Another vote for cut out only what you need. I have the same old set up, and I cut out the damper and some of the firebox as needed to let the liner pass through. If yous start ripping too much structurally out, that chimney may come crashing down.

You can do a copper cap over the old concrete which would look nice.
Don't forget the lower block off plate.

 

[Ben Stark]

Once you install the liner, the chimney is safe to use. I used a stainless steel chase cover with a storm collar this will seal the top of the flue. I actually used 4 tap cons to connect it to the crown, one in each corner, along with Lexol sealant instead of silicone where the storm collar met the liner, and the chase cover met the old masonary flue.

Your crown is in ruff shape, scrape and wire brush all the creosote off, and remove all loose mortar. Then you may be able to repair it with mortar, let it cure and coat it with the crown sealer. I have used it successfully, and it is thick, I put the first coat on by hand with nitrile gloves to pack it in the cracks. Good stuff. Let it dry an hour and put another layer on with a brush. That will help protect the chimney and shed water.

The problem is the crown should have extended out over the bricks by an inch or so to shed water. You could also remove the loose mortar between the bricks with a chisel and mix up a small batch to repair it, it’s not difficult work as long as you can reach the area safely from a ladder or by standing on the roof. Once the repairs are made use some masonry sealer (clear) to protect from future water damage.

The insulated liner helps keep the flue temps hot, reducing creosote and helping with draft. I used an uninsulated liner, similar set up. I’ve had no problems with it. I would also say only remove the least amount of metal to install the new insert and liner. Roxul above the insert and on the sides is a good idea too. It doesn’t burn, so no worries. I believe the stuff is rated for 1200 degrees before it starts to melt.

Good luck with your insert, I love mine! Just fired it up for the first time since spring, and it’s working perfectly.

 

[bholler]

Another vote for cut out only what you need. I have the same old set up, and I cut out the damper and some of the firebox as needed to let the liner pass through. If yous start ripping too much structurally out, that chimney may come crashing down.

You can do a copper cap over the old concrete which would look nice.
Don't forget the lower block off plate.

Copper really doesn't hold up that well to the acids in wood smoke.

 

[Hogwildz]

I seen some copper 100+ years old that held up pretty well.
Lead coated copper can also be an option.
The + with copper, is it deters any growth of mold or mildew on non-sunny areas of the roof where rain runoff flows.

 

[Jlinz911]

Cleaned the fireplace and took off the old surround.

It appears that the old steel box is basically just kinda set in the opening. Does not appear to be holding or supporting anything. There is one steel support across the top of the opening that is structural to the fireplace opening.

 

[Squisher]

I'll pose this question then. Why would you want to remove it?

 

[Jlinz911]

I don't. Lol

 

[Squisher]

From what you've seen does it look like it's loose in there and will just slide right out? How have you determined that no part of it is integral to the structure and integrity of the existing fireplace? Up here a insert is only meant to go into a code compliant masonry fireplace. If you pull that heatform out do you think/know that your fireplace is still up to code?

 

[bholler]

I seen some copper 100+ years old that held up pretty well.
Lead coated copper can also be an option.
The + with copper, is it deters any growth of mold or mildew on non-sunny areas of the roof where rain runoff flows.

Yes but was it on top of a chimney with byproducts of wood burning on it constantly? We typically see copper chimney caps wear out in less that 20 years.

Stainless is a far better option in this case. But I still prefer a masonry overhanging crown personally.

 

[bholler]

I don't. Lol

Just remove what is needed taking the whole thing out is completely unnecessary an a lot of work

 

[Jlinz911]

My main concern is now the depth needed to fit the insert we wanted. It's looking like a real squeeze with the flush mount look.

I was looking at the osburn 2000....

 

[bholler]

My main concern is now the depth needed to fit the insert we wanted. It's looking like a real squeeze with the flush mount look.

I was looking at the osburn 2000....

Well figure out what needs removed to fit your stove. Don't make a bunch of extra work for yourself needlessly.

 

[yooper08]

Your fireplace looks just like mine did, even the damper handle, and I have the same 2.3 cuft stove, just different name plate. I don’t have mine in the flush mount config though. What depth concerns you, along the floor or near the top where it angles in?

 

[Jlinz911]

Along the floor I have plenty of room.

New stove 22 1/8" tall. Connection for insert is right on the rear of the stove. This may require a lot more modification to the existing steel box in the fireplace to get it to connect and get up the chimney properly.

I'll make a gauge outa cardboard tomorrow. Or I'm gonna have to consider a different stove. Man that's gonna be a hard sell on the wife...might be easier to get divorced...lol

 

[yooper08]

Yeah, had to have a portion of the back wall cut on mine to allow the liner to come down.

 

[Hogwildz]

Do your research on flush mounts, and make sure that's what you want.

 

[Jlinz911]

Do your research on flush mounts, and make sure that's what you want.

My wife just liked the surround on the quad