Install a New Fireplace, Stone or Brick? Where Would We Begin?

[UpstateBill]

Hi all,

My wife and I would like to install a real, masonry constructed, wood burning fireplace and chimney at our home. We aren't really sure how to go about it, and would appreciate any help. We initially wanted both the chimney and fireplace to be constructed of fieldstone, but I guess this is really expensive nowadays. We had a mason come over last weekend and he said that he could put in a stone fireplace with a brick chimney that would be around our budget ($8-$10k). A new chimney would involve removing a concrete sidewalk next to the house where the fireplace would go, and it would require some support coming up from the basement.

I went to a building supply store yesterday and found some Belden Homestead brick that would look nice for the chimney. It is $.63 cents per brick. The mason said I would need about 1,500 of them. I am stumped as to what to get for the stone fireplace, though. We do know that we don't want fake stone, but the guy at the building supply company said that natural, 3"-6" full (round) stone might be too heavy to support a fireplace. They do sell a type of real stone called natural thin veneer from a company called Rolling Rock in PA. It seems to be about 2" thick. I was wondering if this stone is only used to cover the exterior wall of the fireplace, or would you use this stone for the whole masonry of the fireplace? If this thin veneer stone is mostly just for appearances, could we maybe use it to cover the outside chimney, or would this take a lot of time for the mason?

I was also wondering if you would use firebrick for the fireplace, or should we install a heatilator? Does one type of fireplace last longer than the other? None of the building supply or fireplace stores in our area sell the metal inserts (heatilators) for fireplaces anymore.

Also, do we need an air vent or something inside the fireplace? Sorry for all the questions and a long first post, but we are desperate for advice. Thank you for your help.

 

[begreen]

Welcome Bill. I can't advise you much on masonry, but there are many options in stone veneers and some good examples in the gallery.
https://www.hearth.com/gall/v/Fireplaces/ - fireplaces and https://www.hearth.com/gall/v/hearths/ - hearths

Will this fireplace be depended on for heating or is it just for ambiance? If the goal is heating, you might take a look at some of the high efficiency zero-clearance fireplaces. They require much less masonry because they are designed to be installed in wood framing. Masonry is applied strictly as a veneer. The advantage here being that these units heat well, use much less fuel and the heat can often be ducted to another part of the house. These units present a good option if part of the goal is heating. Here is an example: http://www.fireplacex.com/ProductGuide/ProductDetail.aspx?modelsku=98500104. A regular fireplace is will actually remove heat from the house as the fire dies down, even if it has glass doors on it.

 

[UpstateBill]

Hi begreen,

Thank you for your help. We wish to install the fireplace mostly for ambiance, but also to take the edge off the cold days of winter. My wife and I both grew up in upstate New York in homes that had wood burning fireplaces going almost every weekend from fall through spring. We moved into our new home a couple months ago and decided we want a real mason built fireplace. The more I read about thin stone veneer, I'm thinking that maybe we could have the mason put in a brick or concrete fireplace and chimney and then place the veneer over the top of them. I am not sure if this would work, though. Do you know if firebrick will last longer than a heatilator or insert? I tried to find a company that sells heatilators in Syracuse, but the building supply shops and fireplace stores don't carry them. It is kind of ironic, since the Heatilator company actually used to be based in Syracuse years ago.

 

[Grisu]

I second the recommendation for a modern zero clearance fireplace. Here is a scheme how it would look like:
(broken image removed)
Source: (broken link removed to http://www.dubuquefireplaceandpatio.com/fireplace-wood.php)
They reach efficiency of 75% similar to modern woodstoves thereby not only providing a nice view of the fire but also some great heat. The installation will also be much easier and cheaper.
For a more modern look you can check out the PE FP30: (broken link removed to http://www.pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/fp30.php)
Another would be the Heat&Glo Northstar: http://www.heatnglo.com/Products/North-Star-Wood-Fireplace.aspx
Here is a member's awesome DIY install of the Napoleon ZC fireplace: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/building-the-hearth-for-my-napoleon-nz3000-what-a-quest.74273/

 

[begreen]

No problem with stone veneer on brick or cement block. It's done all the time. In terms of lifespan a well made brick fireplace will last longer, but the difference may be greater than your lifespan. The mason is key here. You want someone who not only does a good job laying brick and stone, but knows the principals behind good fireplace design and has a proven track record of excellent work. For sure get references for previous work and check them out.

 

[jharkin]

I will add to the recommendation that if you have any intentions to actually provide heat with this fireplace, look at a true woodstove insert, ZC fireplace or freestanding stove. I would forget about heatliator - stove technology has come a long way since those glass door inserts of the 70s.


This from somebody who lives in a creaky old house with real old fashioned massive masonry chimneys (two 6 foot square stone pillar bases in the basement topped with brick chimneys supporting 3 fireplaces total). The open rumford fireplaces we have are great for ambiance as they actually radiate quite a bit of warmth to the folks in the room with them, but other than that they do nothing to heat the house as a whole. In fact the amount of wood I burn in a 3-4 hr ambiance fire in one of them can heat the entire house for an entire day in our woodstove.

These behemoths probably weight 20 tons a piece. I love the charm of them in an old house but I shudder to think of what it would cost to build one new at today's prices. I wouldn't have an old house without one, but if I was building new construction on a budget I would find it hard to justify vs. a manufactured system with stone veneer that gives you the look and the performance.

 

[UpstateBill]

Hi Jeremy,

Sounds like you have a really nice home. Can you keep the doors open on ZC fireplaces while burning wood, or do they have to be closed? Also, can you build a mason type of chimney to go with them? Also, do you know how long they last?

 

[Blue2ndaries]

+ 1 on checking out Scotty O's install. We like our ZC FP (Quadrafire 7100FP) and functions well both aesthetically and as the primary heat source for our home. As several have said, lots of choices in real masonry and precast/stone veneers.

 

[webby3650]

I love my open fireplace! I also see the advantage of a high efficiency fireplace. If you want to heat, then the masonry isn't gonna do all that well. I really love having a stove for heat and a fireplace for the chilly nights! It's really more what you want, and it sounds like you want a fire to look at mostly. In my opinion, when it comes to fireplaces there is no replacement for a true masonry fireplace. You will save money with the prefabs, but its just not the same.

 

[webby3650]

The more I read about thin stone veneer, I'm thinking that maybe we could have the mason put in a brick or concrete fireplace and chimney and then place the veneer over the top of them. I am not sure if this would work,

This is how all modern masonry fireplaces are constructed. The entire structure is concrete block, the firebox is lined firebrick and the flue is lined with clay tiles. Then, whatever stone you choose goes over the top to finish it off.

 

[jharkin]

You can still have a traditional all brick or stone chimney built, it just very very expensive.Hence most folks don't. The previous owners of my house had our big chimney rebuilt from the first floor up, entirely with antique looking red clay brick. It cost them something like $15,000 in the 1990s.

I'm a huge fan of traditional materials and methods. I consider myself fortunate to have both traditional open fireplaces and a stove. But I realize I probably couldn't afford to build a new house the way this place is constructed.

 

[UpstateBill]

Even though it is pricey, we would like to have a traditional, mason built fireplace in our home as opposed to the new prefabs. We are not looking to heat our house with the fireplace. It would more or less be something we would enjoy on the cold weekends when we are at home in our living room or entertaining guests. I have had a mason look at our house, and he quoted me a price between $8-$10k with materials and labor. This would include tearing out the cement sidewalk outside, adding footers and cement in the basement, a fieldstone fireplace and a two story brick chimney. I am not sure if we should just use firebrick to line the inside of the firebox or if we should add a heatilator lining. I know a heatilator would give off more heat, but I am concerned that it would not last as long. Plus, I do not know how much work/expense is involved in removing a heatilator as opposed to replacing the firebricks when their time is done. The heatilator in my parents' home is 35+ years old and still in nice shape, but my brother's is only five years old and it already has a crack in it. He had it inspected and the person said that it is fine, though. Since we are not really looking to get a lot of heat from our fireplace, perhaps we should forego the heatilator lining? What do you all think?

 

[rideau]

Have you looked at the RSF units? Worth taking a look, as they have both units that can heat the home, and also the Rumford Renaissance Fireplace. The latter might be a good option for you. Has won many awards, is clean burning, is a fireplace, can be burned with the glass door up (open) or closed. Has screen as well. A fine, quality company...ICC is the parent company. I believe the basic warranty on the fireplace is 25 years. Were I building today, I would put one in my family room.

 

[jharkin]

Again, if the modern "heatilator" units are anything like the glass door units I remember when we were kids I wouldn't bother. Either do a traditional masonry open fireplace (great choice for ambiance only) or a real EPA certified insert/prefab for serious heating duty (BeGreen, rideau and Grisu gave good suggestions, and I'll second the suggestion to look at Scottys install - its a thing of beauty).

Don't worry about "firebrick" wearing out in our lifetime. Ive been in many an old house with fireplaces constructed of plain old clay brick 200 years old and older that is still in usable condition (the firebox, not the flue - old ones need to get lined of course).

 

[rideau]

The Renaissance Rumford ha won EPA award...is nothing like an old glass door unit. Has a guillotine glass door that disappears above the fireplace if you choose to burn with the door open. In that mode, 4 gm per hour emission. Door closed, under 1 gram. It is really clean burning. Fire is in full blaze, no visible smoke, in under two minutes. Worth looking at.

 

[jharkin]

Yeah, Ive seen that Renaissance Rumford page, looks interesting. My comment was aimed at the OP's mention of the actual "Heatilator" corporation - which seems to still be in business.

 

[webby3650]

Forget about the heatilator box. I didnt even know that they made masonry fireboxes anymore, I thought they just doing pre-fab zero clearance fireplaces. Just go with a traditional firebrick box. If you want to get the most life out of it, have the mason lay the bricks flat instead of on their side. This makes you firebox twice as thick and will much more durable. Also, it would be best to skip the clay lined flue right from the start, get a stainless steel rigid liner installed. It can be installed and insulated as they build it up. This will the most durable way of doing it.

 

[webby3650]

You really should give these other units mentioned above a look. You can still really get the ambiance of an open fire but still have the ability to get some heat in an emergency. Not to mention, save a heap of money. Maybe

 

[UpstateBill]

Ok. I will forget about the Heatilator lining. The Rumford fireplace sounds interesting. I will have to look into it some more.

 

[webby3650]

Ok. I will forget about the Heatilator lining. The Rumford fireplace sounds interesting. I will have to look into it some more.

I see lots of these heatilators that look fine, but when I get in there to clean it, I find that the area behind the damper is rusted out. More often than not, this is what I find.

 

[UpstateBill]

Hi all,

Our wood burning, masonry fireplace has been built. It was just finished yesterday, and I thought I'd share a picture. We used natural field stone for the fireplace and red brick for the outside chimney. I am in the process of ordering custom doors for it. Then we will just need to get some cords of wood. Thanks again to everyone for your help and advice.