Install Nightmare - Whew, passed inspection.

[monkeyk]

The store just installed a wood burning insert, but it doesn't meet clearance specs! Any advice on how to deal with this?

I recently decided to install a wood fireplace insert (fireplace was removing heat from the house rather than adding it). I went to a local store and had their guy come by to tell me what inserts would fit in my current fireplace. In the end, he said he could put in a Jotul 450, but that it would be a tight fit because of my overly large mantle. He said that the heat shield would make it work.
Ideally, I wanted a bigger insert (like the Jotul 550 or the new VC insert), but was happy that the job could be done.

The hearth also needed to be extended because it was only 16" deep. When I talked to the flooring and tile guys, they told me that the best way to lay the new tile would be on top of the old tile and extend it out on top of the floor. This would mean that the hearth would be 3/4" higher than when the fireplace store guy measured, so I called to verify that it would still be OK if we did that. They said that it should be fine. So I had the hearth extended with a tile that matched the mantle last week.

Yesterday, the installers put in the new insert, but left a note on it saying that it doesn't meet the clearance specs! So now I have an insert installed that I cannot use and will not pass an inspection. The installers said that they will discuss the install with Jotul, but I don't see how it will work out. Trading out the mantle is far more work than I bargained for (so far the install has cost me about $5300, $4600 for the insert with installation and another $700 for the hearth extension), plus I probably would have chosen a larger insert and different tile if I didn't need to worry about mantle clearance.

I am not a very assertive person (I get some high anxiety over conflict) so it would help if I knew how I might be able to discuss remedies. Does anyone have any advice for how I should try and work this out with the fireplace store?

 

[jqgs214]

Post a picture of your set-up and required clearances. Which clearance is not meeting spec? We may be able to find a quick solution for you.

 

[begreen]

If the issue is clearance to the mantel, there are ways to remedy the issue. We'll need specifics, but hang in there, a solution is probably close at hand.

 

[monkeyk]

I am not at home right now. I will post a photo when I get home --you are right, it will make things much clearer.

The clearance is from the ground to the bottom of the mantle. The install manual says that from the base of the hearth to the bottom of the mantle at 3.5" deep must be at least 37" with the heat shield. That is the lowest measure that they give. Mine measures 33" to a point where the mantle molding is 1" deep. At 3.5" it may indeed be 37" (I am not really sure how to measure this), but the install manual does not indicate that it is OK to skip the 1" molding.

 

[fossil]

A pic will help a great deal. I'm assuming the heat shield you're talking about is an integral part of the insert assembly. It's possible that installation of an additional shield beneath the mantle could solve the clearance issue, but I'm not sure I'm picturing it correctly in my mind. Not really sure about a lot of stuff that goes on in my mind anymore, actually. Rick

 

[backpack09]

It might be possible to remove that piece of molding to give you the clearance you need.
http://www.jotul.us/FileArchive/Tec...Jøtul C 450 Kennebec/Manual_C_450_011005.pdf

Edit: stoopid wierd letters
you can find it here (broken link removed to http://www.jotul.us/en-us/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-inserts/Jotul-C-450-Kennebec/)

 

[monkeyk]

The heat shield is an optional piece that gets attached to the surround.

 

[begreen]

Is the issue that adding the additional tile layer reduced the clearances below the recommended distance? Or did the store make a mistake on the initial measurements?

 

[monkeyk]

I am not sure what caused the problem. Before being told that it didn't meet the spec, I figured that the fireplace store knew how it needed to work.

I did check with the store after the tile installer said that the hearth would be higher and they said it was OK. I did this because, the guy doing the measurements told me that it would be tight, so if it made a difference, I could have asked the tile guy to cut into the floor to lay it flush (but against his recommendation since he said that the wood would never line up right if he cut it).

 

[jqgs214]

After reading the manual it looks like 37.5 is minimum with heat shield out to 3.5", so mantel raising is necessary, seems like the dealer should have picked up on that, the tile job doesnt make a difference. If worse comes to worse i'd make them them give ya a full refund.

 

[oconnor]

I had the same problem with my Kennebec install, and switched to a non combustible mantle (concrete). It is hard to get that stove into a fireplace that has a wood mantel, mostly because when you extend it out fully, you have the same problem that wood stove guys have with any over stove combustibles.

My installer mentioned using a metal shield at the top of the surround to reduce clearances - if you need time to assess the situation before rebuilding a mantle, that will let you run the stove while you get set up.

 

[monkeyk]

Here is a picture of the install. (at very least it is a sample picture with the Tamarack mantle shield)
The innermost molding is 3/4" deep and starts at 33" high
The next ring of molding is 1 1/4" deep and starts at 36 1/2" high

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Wow, real nice setup...sorry you ae having so much problems, thats a bummer.
Is there any way you could jusr remove the innermost piece of mantle, and then perhaps remove a portion of just the top of the second piece?
Granted, you would nned to do some additional tile work to fil in the areas...but perhaps you have some tile let over, and you could clean up the second portion of the mantle with a router to make it look clean?
Such a nice stove, there has gotta be a solution for you.
Good luck!

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Just looked at your photo s again. If you remove a portion of the mantle, you might be able to find a border/decorative tile with similar color to match the existing tile. (If you dont have any left over) I am not a handyman, but I have done tile a few times and its not that difficult to do..was thinking that perhaps you remove the mantle to meet the clearance issue, and then place either similar tile, or a decorative border to make up for the mantle...not a huge space, so the cost shouldn't be too much.

I would however make a big gripe to your dealer that came out and measured...I am one of those non confrontational folks myself, but after dropping more than a few large ones ($$$$) you have evry right to complain. Again, good luck with everything.

 

[monkeyk]

Thanks for all of the responses. I feel that I can be a bit more confident when talking to the store as a result.

 

[WNY PAT]

The first thing I do before starting a project is to measure everything out. Sorry, but the guys installing this should have been aware of the clearance problems before they put the stove in your house - takes all of 2 seconds to measure from the floor up. If the company doesn't subcontract the installation out, I think you have a good case to have them come and get this insert out... do what you need to do on the mantel... and get the insert you originally wanted set in there. Just my .02 cents.

 

[monkeyk]

So I just spoke with the guy who did the measurements (and he did say that it would be tight when he did the initial measurements). He said that the install manual is ambiguous because the molding in only 3/4" thick where it is too close so he called Jotul
who told him that it should be OK, but that they don't have any documentation to that effect and will not say it is OK in writing.

He suggested letting the inspection happen and saying that if the inspector is OK with it, leaving it at that. If the inspector has an issue, he is willing to discuss it with him. If the inspector says no-go, he will discuss alternatives with me.

This sounds like a reasonable approach to me (given that Jotul at least verbally gave him an OK). But I am biased because I'd really hate to swap out such a nice looking install; so I am interested to hear if someone with experience thinks that the store's approach is not a good idea.


Thank you all very much for your responses and support. I really appreciate the experience that has been brought to my problem.


BTW, the inspection is today, so I'll update this tonight with what I find out.

 

[Custerstove]

Hmmm, I'm not an expert in this type of clearance issue, but I'd say this is really nit-picking. I have a very similar set-up regarding the mantel, although I have the Jotul rockland insert (flush stove). The certified installer told me the one inch mantel wood is not an issue, he only looked at the 3.5 inch part of the mantel and provided a heat shield.

However, I can tell you from my own experience with the Rockland insert, the mantel never gets hot even when the room temp is 80 F and stove is fired up. Granted, you have a stove that isn't flush. . . . just seems real picky to me.

Keep us up-to-date, and good luck.

 

[Famer]

I too have a Kennebec and my wood mantle did not meet spec. It was a few inches too close to the stove. However, the facing on the bottom of the mantle wasn't as deep as the example given in the Jotul manual. Nonetheless, I had to get the heat shield. While I was waiting for the heat shield to be delivered, I ran the stove. I had it running pretty well (some times as high as 500 degrees with the blower running) and my mantle barely got warm. Still, I installed the heat shield, even though I'm not so sure I need it - other than to pass inspection.

If you're specs aren't that far off from the Jotul recommendations and you have the heat shield in place, fire it up and see what happens. If you'd like, PM me and I can give you my measurements for comparison. I have the same stove - surround an all. Mine is installed as flush as it could go in order to meet hearth depth requirements.

 

[monkeyk]

My wife said that the inspector came by today and didn't seem to mind the clearance.

Of course, now I look at the plug in for the blower and see that it isn't fully tied in. I guess that the installers decided that it wasn't worth finishing after they realized there could be an issue with the clearance.

Oh well, one more call tomorrow should clear that up.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Glad to hear that the inspection went ok. Sounds like your dealer needs to throw you in some freebies for your troubles