Installation tips for dummies - liner, inspections, etc.

[tickbitty]

OK so now that I have a stove lined up (Used EPA Englander 24 JC hearth-sitting cat insert) the next thing I need to do is get it out of the former owner's dang fireplace and moved here to my house. And THEN the next fun part starts. And I am even more clueless at this point than I was for the first part.

I was concerned that my husband and I couldn't handle the install and have everything be safe and tidy so I was heavily considering having a professional do the job. Our first sweep doesn't do installs. The second one I called does, and sounds very knowledgeable. BUT he raised several points of concern to me plus this would be way expensive (to my pocket) going by his ballpark figures. Like, probably expensive enough not to have a woodstove, really.

$150 for the permit and associated paperwork
$1032 for a half day's labor for the crew
$600-$800 or so if they provide the liner and etc that they will be installing.

So that's nearly $2000 right there which is way beyond what I was expecting.

Plus: He said he's not at all sure that the 8" flue collar can be reduced to 6" legally (or maybe the word isn't legally - but anyway to make the stove draft right and to pass inspection.) I am not sure but I THINK my chimney could accomodate an 8" liner if that's what I have to use. The former sweep said it was 13" X 13" on the paperwork. But is 8" liner a lot more expensive, or something? I thought everyone here said it was fine to reduce to a 6".

And he said that all liner manufacturers he is aware of will require that the liner be insulated as part of the install. I thought that only some (exterior chimneys and etc) needed insulated liners, I didn't realize it applied to nearly all of them? Hmmm.

And finally, who is it that inspects installs and declares them safe? Someone from the county, or the fire dept? And is this required or just recommended? And do most people get this done? If I am doing this I am doing it right, I don't want to mess around with the safety of my family. But I am getting some conflicting info now!

 

[Fsappo]

Dont reduce from 8" to 6"
Find an installer who will sell you a 6" liner for 500 bucks or so and will charge you 6-700 in labor, who is also NFI Certified and buy a stove that has a 6" flue exhaust....unless you already paid for the 8" one.

If you need to buy an 8" stove, it should be fine to line a 13x13 tile with an 8" liner. You may spend 600-800 on an 8" liner...still no biggie.

 

[mellow]

Get a quote from magnaflex on his insulated 8" liners. But first you NEED to have someone or you go up on the roof and measure your chimney height and flue size so your are certain what to order.

And btw as per the Englander manual for that stove it is legal to install a 8" to 6" adapter, BUT you will need to find out your chimney height first to make sure that will work for you.

 

[BrotherBart]

The manual for that stove specifically states that if you have a six inch liner in that chimney then it is fine. That is all the inspector wants to know about that subject. And it should be all the installer needs to know about it too. They don't get to write the rules, the manufacturer does.

"Exception: If you reline the flue and direct connect this unit, a six inch (6”) flue liner is acceptable." It is on the second page of the manual.

Call the building permit office and ask them what needs to be done about permitting and inspections. They will be glad to tell you.

 

[theheatelement]

Easy install

I don't see why they would need a crew, here is from your last post, it should be a very easy install....

 

[tickbitty]

Thanks all.

Franks - Guess I need to make more calls on the installer but it's not looking real good to get somebody for that price. Right now we're pretty committed to this stove at this point, (handshake agreement - plus I am not sure the board can continue to see me through my soul-(and craigslist) searching on this one anymore now that I finally decided on one!
Mellow - you're so right. As soon as we have an evening when we get home early enough to beat the dark (dang time change!) We will be up on that roof!
Bart, thanks, I thought I saw that it was OK to reduce but I wasn't sure if I saw it in the official paperwork or if I just saw from you guys on here that you felt it was OK. Glad to see it was both.

So here's another question though - let's say I can fit an 8" insulated liner, and if it's not prohibitively more expensive than the 6", I suppose I would consider that. Would it be unwise to put in an 8", because any future new fabulous stoves I might buy in a few more years would then need a 6" liner and I would have to change the whole thing out again? Or is going from 8" down to a 6" flue collar (opposite of my problem) done much?

 

[mellow]

8" to 6" is done all the time.

The reason you need to get your chimney height is for determining if you need to stick with 8" or can do 6". If you chimney is only 14 ft tall then your limited to an 8" liner, and that possibly might not work, you might have to get a flue extension to make it atleast 15ft in height so you have proper draft.

 

[tickbitty]

Thanks Magnaflex and thanks Mellow. Sorry, you wrote about the draft before and I guess I wasn't quite getting it but now I do. Thanks much, sorry I am being a little obtuse, no time to stop for coffee this morning, synapses not all connecting!

 

[tickbitty]

So after I get the chimney measured and figure out the liner size and draft issues, I plan to get a quote on a liner or a couple different options (from our friend here on the board) and I also want to make sure there's not one in the seller's chimney - he's already said if there's anything in there we're welcome to it, and since the stove looks barely used perhaps if there's a liner it's in good shape too. Have not idea if there is a liner or what kind, but at least might get the appropriate connectors out of it or something I figure.)

But in the meantime, does this Craigslist (unused) liner sound like anything good? I thought that price was pretty similar to what I would expect to pay for my own new liner with shipping, but if I am wrong and this seems like some kind of great deal, someone can correct me.)
(broken link removed to http://richmond.craigslist.org/for/1456641757.html)
Just wondering.

 

[knotdodger]

First thing I did was call my insurance company. Got the o.k.
Went to the mechanical inspector and paid 45 dollars for a permit.
Bought my flex liner from the local Amish hardware.
Worked 3 weekends cutting and sawing the heatform so I could get the
liner down it. It took me a while because when I was about to snap, hehe...
I would quit for the day.
Dropped the liner down and capped it, and tee'd it by myself.
I ripped up the old slate 5 ft. by 10 ft. in front of the fireplace.
Replaced it with some good porcalain tile. 70 bucks for the saw. ( cheap one).
Built a nice hearth pad. Durock--Micore--Durock--Porcalain.--
Bought the stove.
Called over 3 strong backs.
Inspector inspected it.
Insurance o.k. ' d it.
Light fire.
It was a bit harder than what it sounds though...

 

[tickbitty]

Awesome rundown!

 

[mellow]

I thought that price was pretty similar to what I would expect to pay for my own new liner with shipping, but if I am wrong and this seems like some kind of great deal, someone can correct me.)
(broken link removed to http://richmond.craigslist.org/for/1456641757.html)
Just wondering.

That is what you would pay for just the liner with shipping, not the insulation, it is a very good price. But again you NEED to measure your chimney to make sure.

 

[tickbitty]

Yup, thank you, your good counsel is not forgotten!
(But it was PITCH dark when I got home at 6 last night - so still no answers there!)

 

[BrotherBart]

A one story house is not going to have near a twenty foot chimney. And that is a not to be passed by deal on that liner kit.

 

[tickbitty]

Really, Hmmmm! Thanks for letting me know. I didn't know that they generally cost that much.

But Mellow was actually referring to whether my chimney is tall enough to draft a 6" liner without an extension, or whether I would have to stick with the 8". I guess after we measure chimney, get stove (and determine that seller does not have a nice FREE liner) I can see if these CL folks still have this kit! I am however also quite appreciative of Magna's advice on this stuff and aware he's done real well by folks here, so I wouldn't mind sending some business his way if that's how it works out either.