Installed Lennox Canyon C310

[DKranger22]

After much research, indecision and more research, I finally decided to pull the trigger on a Lennox Canyon C310 and had it installed yesterday. Needless to say, I'm pretty excited! This insert is a beast weighing in at 550 lbs, so for that reason alone, I'm very happy having paid the extra $450 for install (my back is thanking me already).

The liner is an 8" Olympia Forever-Flex 316 / titanium alloy, about 14 feet tall. The plan was to wrap the liner with insulation, but we ran into some clearance problems that prohibited this due to mis-aligned chimney tiles. We did insulate above the insert and below the cap. Also, this is an interior fireplace, so I'm trying to convince myself that the lack of insulated liner is not going to be detrimental. I suppose I could always consider the pour-down mix type. I'm going to be researching this further. This was disappointing to say the least, but nothing that we could control.

So enough babble, here are the pics:

Old setup:

Doors removed:

Liner pulled and adjustable elbow installed:

Un-crating the beast (the shipping pallet cracked in half, making removal from the truck difficult):

Installed:

So a few lose ends to tie up. Firstly, I don't want to run the blower via extension cord, so I will be installing an outet box near the stove. I'm brainstorming the best way to conceal the cord. More on that later. Secondly, Carpet needs to be removed directly in front of the insert and replaced with non-combustible material. I won't be burning until I get that figured out. I need to make sure that I understand the requirements fully (my first pass in the manual left me a little confused, so I may create a separate post on that). Lastly, you'll notice the soot on the first few bricks above the insert. I did my best to remove this with a wire brush, but it almost seems as if the bricks are discolored. Any tips on trying to get them cleaned? Here's a close up:

The surround trim was back ordered, but should be here second week of April. The heavy lifting is complete. Just some fine tuning left, and I'll be joining the burning ranks soon!

 

[dougand3]

Good deal! You (and the cat) will love the warmth.

 

[gerry100]

we've had the free standing version of your insert for 4 years and it's working great, spend some time learning how to drive it and you'll enjoy excellent efficiency.

 

[begreen]

The Country Canyon is a serious heater. You will be a lot warmer next season. Try TSP on the bricks, wear protective gloves. If that doesn't work, paint them.

They make hearth extensions that will work for you there. Or you could build your own to the stove required spec.
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Wood-Stove-and-Accessories/Hearth-Extensions

 

[DKranger22]

Begreen - Peraps this is a dumb question, but are those per-fabricated hearth extensions designed to go right over the carpet, or must it still be cutout?

Thanks for the recommendation on the TSP. I will be giving this a try.

 

[begreen]

Yes, you can put it on the carpet as long as the R value meets or exceeds the stove requirements. It will need to be permanently (or at least seasonally) anchored with a couple screws. Here are some other choices.

http://www.diamondhearths.com/ http://www.hearthclassics.com/

 

[DKranger22]

Begreen - Thanks for passing along the links. I will be researching these extensions in detail this week. One quick question to make sure I understand what my stove requires:

So based on the requirements per my manual, I need 24" of hearth protection from the front of the stove door, and 8" on either side of the unit. The hearth protection needs to have a K-Value of .84 @ 3/4" thick.

Most of the hearth extensions are listed in R-value, so I need to convert this to a K-value. One of the extensions that I liked had an R-value of .84 @ 1.25" thick. So converting this to K, I would take the thickness of the hearth extension in inches and divide by the R-value? So this would be 1.25 divided by .84, which gives me a K-value of 1.488 @ 1.25" thickness, thus meeting the requirements set fourth by Lennox?

Sorry for what might be a simple question. I just want to make sure that the extension meets my requirements before I lay out the cash. Thanks again for all of your help!

 

[KaptJaq]

I like to work in "R" values. To convert k to R where k=.84 and it is 3/4 inch thick:

R=(1/k)*Thickness
R=(1/.84)*(3/4)
R=.90

So any hearth pad with an R value greater than .90 should meet your requirements.

I'm sure BGreene will confirm my number shortly...

KaptJaq

 

[DKranger22]

I like to work in "R" values. To convert k to R where k=.84 and it is 3/4 inch thick:

R=(1/k)*Thickness
R=(1/.84)*(3/4)
R=.90

So any hearth pad with an R value greater than .90 should meet your requirements.

I'm sure BGreene will confirm my number shortly...

KaptJaq

KaptJaq: Your figure is based on a 3/4" thick extension, correct? So an extension that is 1.25" thick with an R-value of .84 would still meet my requirement, correct? (as expressed above: 1.25 /.84R = 1.488 K value)

 

[KaptJaq]

KaptJaq: Your figure is based on a 3/4" thick extension, correct? So an extension that is 1.25" thick with an R-value of .84 would still meet my requirement, correct?

My figure is converting the k value and thickness from the Lennox manual to an R value. An R value is the total thermal resistance of the pad. Each component of the pad has a specific R value based on the materials and thicknesses. Adding them together gives the total R value.

A simplified example is if I wanted 1" slate over 1/2" Durrock nextgen. 1" of slate has an R value of .1, the 1/2" Durrock has R of .39. The total R for my pad would be .49. The R=.49 is less than the R=.90 your stove requires so I need to add more thermal resistance.

Since it is better to exceed the R value I am going to remove the Durrock and use 1/2" Micor 300 in its place. The 1/2" Micor 300 has an R value of 1.03, the 1" slate has an R value of .1 for a total R = 1.13 which exceeds the R = .90 that your stove requires.

You can view a list of R values here: (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/horvalue.htm)

Since most pads are rated in thermal resistance work with the R value. Any pad that has an R value that exceeds .90 should be acceptable for your stove. It should not matter how thick it is, the total R value is important. If you are nor sure you can check with your dealer or manufacturer.

KaptJaq

 

[DKranger22]

Kapt: Thanks for setting me straight. This is confusing at first, but I now understand the correlation between K & R value.

So essentially, with a requirement for .90R or greater (thus .84K or LOWER), I will need a hearth extension with Type II ember protection. This is what I wanted to verify.

Thanks again for your help! This forum is fantastic.

 

[DKranger22]

Now that I have R/K values squared away, I have one more question as it relates to the hearth extension... let's see if I can knock them all out of the way in one thread!

The Lennox manual requires 24" of minimum depth "extended 24" in front of the heater". It's pretty specific about where to take the side measurements from (measured from door opening), but the frontal measurement seems pretty generic. Would I measure the 24" from the door, as I would the side measurement, or would I need to include the ash lip that extends out another 5"?

The ash lip hangs over the edge of my hearth, so if this measurement is the benchmark, this would require a deeper than usual extension (most are either 12" or 18" deep from what I can tell).

Once again, I'd rather have "too much than too little", so I want to make sure I'm covered.

 

[KaptJaq]

I will need a hearth extension with Type II ember protection.

Type II hearth pads have ember protection and thermal resistance. There is an R value assigned to that hearth pad's thermal resistance. The pad for your stove must have an R value that exceeds R =.90. Check the pad specifications before you buy.

 

[mellow]

Wow that does sit out on the hearth a lot, you must have that elbow right up against the lintel. Nice looking insert, that is quite a huge window, you will get some nice IR heat out of that.

I can't say for 100% but I thought the requirement is from the door.

 

[DKranger22]

Type II hearth pads have ember protection and thermal resistance. There is an R value assigned to that hearth pad's thermal resistance. The pad for your stove must have an R value that exceeds R =.90. Check the pad specifications before you buy.

The extension that I have an eye on can be sold in either Type I (.84 R) or Type II (1.40R) thermal protection. I know these values will differ from extension to extension (based on thickness, materials used for construction, etc.). But for this particular extension, I will need a Type II.

However, it is only 18" deep, so I think I will need to explore a custom depth.

 

[DKranger22]

Wow that does sit out on the hearth a lot, you must have that elbow right up against the lintel. Nice looking insert, that is quite a huge window, you will get some nice IR heat out of that.

I can't say for 100% but I thought the requirement is from the door.

Yes, the elbow is pretty close to the lintel. I can't imagine trying to get this insert installed without the elbow. That made life much easier.

The Canyon definitely has a massive window for an insert. I'm also hoping for some pretty nice views from this bad boy once fired up.

 

[KaptJaq]

In the States the measurement is from the door opening unless specifically stated otherwise in the installation manual.

Enjoy your stove...

KaptJaq

 

[begreen]

Wow that does sit out on the hearth a lot, you must have that elbow right up against the lintel. Nice looking insert, that is quite a huge window, you will get some nice IR heat out of that.


I can't say for 100% but I thought the requirement is from the door.

Measurement is from the door. The 24" requirement is unusual, but an indication of how strongly radiant the stove is. With the projection onto the hearth you will find this heater works pretty well even when the power goes out.

I've stayed out of the K v R question because I am likely to mess it up. I know they are reciprocals and I go by web's calcs thickness/K value = R value.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/k_values_what_does_it_all_mean

 

[DKranger22]

Begreen: That's the primary reason why I went with the Canyon. This thing projects onto the hearth further than any other insert that would fit into my fireplace (that I am aware of). I was without power for 2 weeks when the remnants of Hurricane Sandy tore through Cleveland in late October. Had that happened during January or February, I would have been in big trouble. Now, I'll be prepared with plenty of radiant heat available if needed in a similiar scenario.

Thanks for confirming the point of measurement. I should be fine with an 18" hearth extension when measured from the door. I found a quality, inexpensive line of hearth extensions made by American Panel Hearth Products. Two local dealers carry their line, and they run about $200 cheaper than the extensions offered by Woodland Direct. I'm going to run the ones that I like by "headquarters", and given her blessing, I'm hoping to place an order this week. The website is as follows:

http://americanpanelhearth.com/

 

[TheStoveStore]

Begreen: That's the primary reason why I went with the Canyon. This thing projects onto the hearth further than any other insert that would fit into my fireplace (that I am aware of). I was without power for 2 weeks when the remnants of Hurricane Sandy tore through Cleveland in late October. Had that happened during January or February, I would have been in big trouble. Now, I'll be prepared with plenty of radiant heat available if needed in a similiar scenario.

Thanks for confirming the point of measurement. I should be fine with an 18" hearth extension when measured from the door. I found a quality, inexpensive line of hearth extensions made by American Panel Hearth Products. Two local dealers carry their line, and they run about $200 cheaper than the extensions offered by Woodland Direct. I'm going to run the ones that I like by "headquarters", and given her blessing, I'm hoping to place an order this week. The website is as follows:

http://americanpanelhearth.com/

You do not need 24". If you look at Note (1) in the manual (pictured below) you can reduce the front clearance by 2" for every 2" your hearth is raised above the floor, minimum of 16". From your picture I would guess your hearth is about 6" off the floor. So you would need 18" of hearth in front of the door. Also in the manual it shows a picture of "F", where you measure from the door opening on the insert.

It is a great insert, I have sold lots of the over the years and love them. Just make sure you get the fire hot enough before you damper it down. You can get a dirty chimney really fast with such a large stove and burning cool fires. A stove top thermometer is a really good idea, helps you stay in the "burn zone"

Good Luck!

 

[stovelark]

Hi DK- yes very nice insert, just super heavy. Have installed a few myself. Lennox bought Country stoves a number of years ago,I thought they had sold that line off... maybe not. Anyway, Huge heater, huge burn times and a big firebox. Enjoy, lots of warmth coming your way.

 

[Dillier23]

Have you had a chance to burn your Lennox? I'm looking at one myself and was curious as to output and burn times.

 

[begreen]

The current owner of the Country line is IronStrike, an IHP company.

 

[BrotherBart]

Good grief, Lennnox strikes again. Buy'em. Sell'em. Buy'em. Sell'em.

 

[Dillier23]

Have you had a chance to burn your Lennox? I'm looking at one myself and was curious as to output and burn times.