Installing a new Englander 30NC

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Yes I have thought about installing a half wall to the right side of the stove. I think we will get her in place first and evaluate whether we want the half wall. It would give some added protection for the kiddos running around. We do have the proper clearances as well to make the half wall work. At this point we are just trying to get the stove in place and maybe a few break in fires before the temps warm up too much.
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Day 5 & 6: Mon/Tues - Didn't get very far on these days due to some long hours at work and not very much sleep. In any event, progress was made. Now that the floor modification was complete, I took some time to make sure all of the squeeks were gone by adding screws to a few percarious areas. Just a side note: I HATE SQUEEKS! I want to walk through my house and not hear each step that I take. /End rant.

The next step was to cut and fit the Micore board. Based on some of the threads I read here, I figured that Micore would be very difficult to find. I researched it a bit online before trying for some local sources, just so I had an idea of the price. As luck would have it, the very first place I called had it in stock ready to pick up for $50 per 4'x8' sheet out the door price. For anyone in the Mid Michigan area looking for Micore 300, try Young Brothers and Daley on E Michigan in Lansing. They had it in stock and even cut it in half for me so I could transport it easier. Below is the Micore cut and fit to the opening.

Woodstove-17.jpg

The Micore I purchased was 1/2" thick. The old subfloor was 3/4". So I had a 1/4" gap to fill. Now the stove that I am installing (Englander 30 NC) requires an R 1.5 hearth. I am trying to keep the floor as shallow as possible so that the tile is roughly on the same plane as the carpet. I am not going to go into all the different ways I could acheive the R 1.5 rating. Here's what I chose to do... one 1/2" layer of Micore (R 1.03) and one 1/2" layer of cement board (R 0.26) puts me at R 1.29, 0.21 short of the goal. I decided to fill the 1/4" gap by compressing unfaced fiberglass insulation. Now I can't give you the exact R value of the insulation, but I did find a reference on the Owens Corning website with a chart for compressed fiberglass. http://www2.owenscorning.com/literature/pdfs/10017857 Building Insul Compressed R-Value Chart Tech Bulletin.pdf

Note the value in the bottom right corner of the chart. If you take 2.5 inches of fiberglass insulation and compress it to 3/4" you end up with R 3.3. The way I see it, as long as the insulation has at least an R value of 0.21 I have met the requirements of the manufacturer. This is precisely what I did. I took 2.5 inches of fiberglass insulation, but compressed it down to 1/4" to fill the gap underneath the Micore. By my math, it should be right around an R value of 0.70. If anyone knows more about this, I would be happy to know the true R value.

Woodstove-22.jpg Woodstove-23.jpg Woodstove-24.jpg

Once compressed, the Micore felt good and solid underneath and is flush with the subfloor. This sets me up nicely so that I can lay the cement board on top and have the floor flush all the way across. I also plan to add a piece of sheet metal as an added bonus between the Micore and the cement board. Had to go a bit screw crazy to keep the Micore from pushing up...

Woodstove-25.jpg

This last picture is just to show the location of the return air duct that I mentioned in an earlier post. It is high on the wall just around the corner from the wood stove location. I am not trying to move the "hot" air with it, but it will help to mix around the air throughout the house when things get too overwhelming.
Woodstove-26.jpg
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,098
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Fibergass? Did you not have the other half sheet of micore? Or even a second layer of durock would have done the job in a noncombustible way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PapaDave

Grisu

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2010
4,121
Chittenden, VT
Fibergass? Did you not have the other half sheet of micore? Or even a second layer of durock would have done the job in a noncombustible way.
But then it would not be flush with the carpet anymore...;lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPurvis

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,098
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
You can be flush with the carpet or flush with the subfloor or somwhere in between without creating a toe stub issue. I have removed carpet, set half inch durock, thinset, and tile while still not being above the surrounding carpet. Fiberglass is not an acceptable hearth material, something about it being combustible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PapaDave

M1sterM

Member
Aug 21, 2008
148
Northcountry
Fiberglass is not combustible.

Paper facing, on the other hand, is (not an issue here).
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPurvis

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Not much has been done over the last 2-3 days. I went ahead and cut and fit the cement board. (Pictures below are just showing the first couple of sheets, I have since done the whole floor and got it fastened down)

As I mentioned earlier, I also fit some sheet metal under the primary stove area. This doesn't add to the R-Value of the hearth, but I have been told it may help with reflecting radiant heat. Now on the web I found the hardware store had a 48" x 48" flat piece of sheet metal for around $10. When I got there it wasn't in stock, it turned out to be a "special order" item. Not wanting to waste a lot of time on this step, I settled for a sheet roughly 33" square for $7.48, not a bad deal for a little added piece of mind.

Woodstove-28.jpg Woodstove-27.jpg

More updates to come. Today I picked up a tile saw from a buddy of mine and will be getting the tile layed over the next week or so. Did I also mention that the stove was delivered as scheduled? I have it sitting in my garage right now while I get the tile layed. I may also do a break in fire before I bring her in the house. Feeling very lucky on the stove delivery as the banding/blocking that was holding it to the pallet shook loose in transit. Fortunately, the stove didn't suffer any cosmetic damage. Several fire bricks in the inside were cracked and loose. Will post some pictures of that later. Not sure what kind of policy Englander has on this kind of thing. Hoping I can get them replaced.
 

PapaDave

Minister of Fire
Feb 23, 2008
5,739
Northern MI - in the mitten
Yep, I'd give 'em a call.
I thought I had one broken, but turns out it was cut that way.
You need to call them anyway for the free hair dryer blower and to register the stove.
I got my blower within a couple days.
 

yooperdave

Minister of Fire
Oct 26, 2010
1,127
Michigan's U.P.
Dpurvis, Englander has an excellent service policy with their customers. I also had a few broken bricks and also some brass spring handles that were missing when I picked up my 13 from HD. Shipped them out right away and everything arrived just fine. I also had a couple welds that weren't quite complete and after snapping a couple pics of them, Englander authorized me to have them fixed by a welder locally and submit the bill for his charges. Again, no problems. Very satisfied with this company.

Wish they had the free blower offer when I had bought my 13, though...:(
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Going to give Englander a call today when I get home. Need to register stove, claim the blower fan, order side heat sheilds, and let them know about the cracked bricks. They are definately broken(in half), not just cut. I had 2 bricks that were completely dislodged letting everything shift around during transit. Probably 4-5 cracked bricks. (Not counting the brick in the front right corner that is intentionally cut) Will post some pictures soon. Still very satisfied with the stove and speed/ease of delivery. Shes a beaut and I can't wait to get it in the house.

Kind of suprised to see that the fire brick was pre-installed. I would have expected them to come packed in a box with a diagram of how they go in place.
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Just got off the phone with Englander customer service. Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! In short, its what customer service was intended to be!

Got the stove registered and claimed the free blower fan. I also told them about the cracked/chipped fire brick. They didn't bat an eye about replacing them for free as a warrenty item. They even threw in 1 extra just incase I miscounted! Wow. I also tried to order a can of stove paint, to which the guy asked why I needed it. I explained that one of the staples on the pallet had come loose and scratched up the edge of the pedestal and I was going to touch it up. No big deal. He also included the paint for a warrenty item. Fantastic!

Would I recommend this company to a friend? ABSOLUTELY!
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Sorry for the hiatus, a lot has been going on around the home so I haven't had a chance to post. I have received all of the goodies from Englander. There shipping was absolutely out-of-this-world fast. I called them April 2nd in the afternoon. All of my parts arrived on April 3rd...from Vermont...in less than 24 hours. They must have a FedEx truck sitting and waiting in their parking lot. Lol.

So on with the install! As I mentioned before, when I received the stove, some bricks had come unwedged and I had several bricks that were cracked and chipped. See pictures below. Englander was excellent in standing by their product and replaced them all free of charge.

Woodstove-063.jpg Woodstove-067.jpg

A few days after receiving the stove we had a break in the weather, and I decided to do the first fire outside to help burn off the smell. I transferred the stove to a dolly that I constructed with wheels to make moving the stove around a bit easier. Moving 450 pounds around on wheels is really easy and you forget just how heavy this sucker is.

Woodstove-074.jpg

I got the fire rolling with some nice dry cord wood. I didn't pack the firebox this time since I am just learning the stove and I had somewhere to go that evening. After getting things going I realized just how difficult it is to establish any kind of a draft when there is no chimney and you have 5-10 mile/hour wind. With the door even slightly cracked the smoke would poor out of the door from back drafting...enter some hillbilly ingenuity. I know this is probably not kosher, but I used the blower fan to force air in to the air intake port. This kept the draft moving in the right direction and once it was stable the fire really took off well. The break in fire burned for probably 4-5 hours with the wood you see pictured. I was pushing it the whole time to burn hot and fast as I needed the fire to be out completely before putting the stove away for the night. Oh, and you may have noticed in the last picture that I went ahead and installed the side heat shields before the first burn.

Woodstove-076.jpg Woodstove-077.jpg Woodstove-080.jpg

More to come on the indoor flooring setup!
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
78,037
South Puget Sound, WA
You need to put some pipe on the stove for an outdoor burn. Otherwise there is no draft. At least put 4 ft of cheap galvanized vent pipe on it. Then you can close the door most of the way and get the stove body up to temp.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PapaDave

PapaDave

Minister of Fire
Feb 23, 2008
5,739
Northern MI - in the mitten
D, I'll be curious to hear how you like the side shields and what effect they have.
Probably won't happen this year, eh?
 

stoveguy2esw

Minister of Fire
Wish they had the free blower offer when I had bought my 13, though...

the blower was added as a stock item to our stoves a couple years back (I think it was 2012 but could have been 2013 cant remember)

the reason for the "coupon" is because we had a back order from the blower company which caused us to have to ship without the blowers in them. (if you look at the crates with posters on current stock it shows the blower as included) since we had to ship the orders without blowers we came up with the voucher idea as we wanted our customers to get what they actually paid for. as an added plus it encouraged folks to register their stoves with us. from the numbers I was seeing it appears that most of the stoves we shipped without blowers have been provided them was just a few hundred of each model. it wasn't a "sales gimmick" as there was nothing on the outside of the box to suggest this, but if anyone has had to deal with supply issues with mass production will tell you sometimes you get your arse in a crack when you have orders and buyers screaming they want the product now, we decided this was the best way to get the product out there in a harsh winter and still provide a usable unit which would only be without the blower for a couple days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Owen1508

stoveguy2esw

Minister of Fire
Just got off the phone with Englander customer service. Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! In short, its what customer service was intended to be!

Got the stove registered and claimed the free blower fan. I also told them about the cracked/chipped fire brick. They didn't bat an eye about replacing them for free as a warrenty item. They even threw in 1 extra just incase I miscounted! Wow. I also tried to order a can of stove paint, to which the guy asked why I needed it. I explained that one of the staples on the pallet had come loose and scratched up the edge of the pedestal and I was going to touch it up. No big deal. He also included the paint for a warrenty item. Fantastic!

Would I recommend this company to a friend? ABSOLUTELY!

happy to see you had a good experience with my CS department. our Customer Support department is MY BABY, and reading a post such as this always makes my day. I truly appreciate the kind words, and I welcome you to the ESW family. you're gonna love love love this stove! and should you run into any issues you know you have us on the other end of the line to help.
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Without further adieu! Sorry for the long delay in getting the rest of the pictures uploaded. Life has been very crazy the last few months. However, I wanted to make sure that I returned to finish out this thread with some pictures of the final install. I am not going to be writing as much this time, I will just let the pictures speak for themselves.
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
So after the break in fire in my drive way, I had to finish up the tile install.

Woodstove-34.jpg

Dry fitting the tile to make sure I had the pattern figured out.

Woodstove-35.jpg Woodstove-36.jpg

Tile being layed. I LOVE our decision to use a bull nose edge tile and also the 45 degree corner. Side note: Keeping 3 children off of freshly layed tile in the main entry of the home can be extremely tricky. Notice the vent pipe boxes...they were there to keep the kids off of the wet tile underneath.

Woodstove-37.jpg Woodstove-38.jpg Woodstove-39.jpg

Tile work finished and grouted. The middle picture is to show the "flush" install. When walking around bare foot through the house you can notice a very slight step up onto the tile from the carpet. Maybe 1/4" inch. Not bad at all.
 

Grisu

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2010
4,121
Chittenden, VT
Looks nice and has the added advantage you have now a "mud area" at the front door. Looking forward to see the stove there with a fire in it. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPurvis

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Woodstove-40.jpg

After a few days to allow the tile to dry and also to apply grout sealer, I had some family come by the house to help me move the stove into place.
PLEASE NOTE: Before any fires were lit in the stove, we removed the coat racks and coats from the wall behind the stove. Only thing that we have note relocated yet is the door bell.

Woodstove-41.jpg

Went ahead and connected the outside air vent and dropped it down into the basement to be completed later.

Woodstove-42.jpg

Time to install the venting. Here is my greatest contribution to this thread... When trying to find center of the stove opening, use a lid from a Maxwell House coffee container. It fits precisely inside the opening and even has a little dimple dead center on the lid for you to drop your plumb bob! An added benefit is that it keeps construction debris from falling inside the stove.

Woodstove-43.jpg Woodstove-44.jpg Woodstove-45.jpg

Hole cut in ceiling, attic framing installed and support mounted.
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Woodstove-46.jpg

Hole cut through the roof.

Woodstove-47.jpg

Attic insulation shield in place. View is looking straight down the pipe into the homes interior.

Woodstove-48.jpg Woodstove-49.jpg Woodstove-50.jpg

Venting completed. You may notice in the first picture that the pipe has a rather large dent in it. There were two big dents on the pipe when we opened the package. Possibly from the banding straps used. We needed the pipe to fit and install the roof flashing. However, we ended up pulling the dented pipe and returning it to the store for a new one.

Not pictured: I came back and added stove pipe clamps/straps which tie each section of pipe together and keep them from coming apart. Also, on our first heavy rain we had some drips come in on top of the wood stove. Based on some advice found on the hearth forums, I ended up going back up on the roof and sealing every joint/seam. Including the vertical seam on the vent pipe. Leak fixed.
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Now the moment you have been waiting for!

Woodstove-51.jpg

First fire! Woohoo! It is a great feeling to finally have the stove in place and pumping out nice warm heat. We were able to burn 5 or 6 days this year before the temps warmed up too much. We are ready for winter 2014/2015!

Looking back through the pictures, I realized I hadn't taken any "pull back" shots to show the whole entry. I snapped a few today. Please ignore the mess!

Woodstove-53.jpg Woodstove-54.jpg

Pull back shots to show the final install and entryway. The pictures make it look smaller than it is; however, the entry doesn't feel crowded when you enter the home. The benefit of having the stove near the door is little to no mess carrying wood through the home. We have a covered porch just outside of the door where we can store 3-4 days of wood.



A few little mods to share... stoveguy2esw, if you are reading this, close your eyes. :)

Woodstove-52.jpg

We made 2 mods to the blower. First, I shortened the cord from the stock 6' length down to about 14 inches as we have a plug in right behind the stove. This keeps the cord nice and neat and away from the heat. Secondly, we removed the High/Off/Low switch and installed a rheostat in its place. We like the blower fan for the stove; however, we wanted to have a bit more control over the fan speed as the fan can be rather noisy at times. To accomplish this, we wired the rheostat into the "high" side of the motor. Now we can run the fan from a very low purr, all the way up to the tornado-ish high speed.
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
So that's it! I hope you enjoyed following along with my install. We are looking forward to the upcoming winter so that we can stay toasty warm!

One bit of advice for anyone looking to install this stove. Despite the fact that we have 21" of tile beyond the ash lip on the front of the stove, the carpet directly in front of the window still gets quite warm. Not warm enough to worry me, but I am glad we did not go with the minimum requirement. Go bigger if you can! As Mike Holmes would say, remember that the minimums are just that...the minimum!
 

DPurvis

New Member
Mar 25, 2014
49
Leslie, MI
Just for kicks. Here are a few pictures of wood gathering this year. Largest round was 24" Thank God for friendly neighbors with tractors!

Saw was borrowed from my father-in-law. Stihl MS 361 with a 20" bar. Sure knows how to eat wood!

IMAG1769.jpg IMAG1770.jpg IMAG1898.jpg
IMAG1899.jpg IMAG1932.jpg