Installing Wood stove in currently existing wood burning fireplace

[Woody Stover]

Grisu, I don't have exact measurement but the chimney looks to be about 10ft high.

Is that from the top of the stove (this will be an approximation, I know) to the top of the clay chimney liner?

 

[Woody Stover]

If I get an insert with good size, would that make significant difference on my gas bill compared to smaller stoves like 1410?
The ones with blower, does it require plugged in?

I'd think you would be able to heat the entire home with the right size insert. If the doorway between the kitchen and living room is to scale, moving the heat to the entire first level shouldn't be too hard. But I'm unclear about the stairs to the second level...is that stairway open to the living room, i.e. can you see someone walking up the stairs from the living room? It looks from the drawing that the stairs are outside the wall of the house...
If you can spring for a new insert, I wouldn't mess around, I'd get enough stove to heat the home on its own, and get a style I liked. Then you don't have to upgrade later. Some blowers are quieter than others, that would be important to me. The Lopi blowers are quiet, the one on the Liberty is anyway...

 

[Grisu]

I have done some homework and leaning toward installing an insert and found a used Country C160 insert selling locally. Any thought on that one? do you think it is still too small for the house? Grisu, I don't have exact measurement but the chimney looks to be about 10ft high. I will try to get you the more details later. Still busy with moving other household stuffs and wife gives me mean look when I stay around the fireplace too long.

I am a bit hesitant to recommend an used insert to someone new. You really need to check it carefully that it has not been overfired. A lot will depend on the price. Plus, don't be disappointed when you have to start the fire from scratch again every morning. Unless it is a really good deal I would suggest waiting for a more appropriately sized unit about 2 cu ft. or buy a new one. However, it is certainly your money and home.

10 ft chimney is awfully short. You may need to add some stovepipe to it to get sufficient draft. What is the diameter? Can you drop a liner down there? Any way you can sneak by your wife and post some pictures?

 

[begreen]

Is that from the top of the stove (this will be an approximation, I know) to the top of the clay chimney liner?

That is going to be a critical measurement. Modern secondary burn stoves need enough draft to pull air through the secondary manifold. Most require at least 14 ft. This appears to be a 2 story home based on the side staircase. If so, does the chimney clear the second story roof?

 

[kennny]

/begreen, That's concerning to hear. is that because modern secondary burn doesn't make the pipe(vent) hot enough to create draft? what if I do the insulation? I didn't have time to measure it but here is the picture from outside.

 

[begreen]

Nice house and setting. Yep, that chimney will be a challenge, particularly in our mild climate. You might want to look for a PE Pacific or Super insert. They are a bit easier breathing in my experience. But it could be that a chimney extension will be needed to establish good draft. Insulation will be a necessity I think.

 

[mellow]

Need good draft when you are pulling air in for the secondary/primary air, you don't need as much draft for an old smoke dragon because you idle it, but then you are letting that wasted smoke energy turn into creosote. Height creates draft, the higher the chimney the more draft it creates, the warmer it is even more draft is created, that is why we recommend insulated liners.

You don't see much smoke when you inhale a cigarette, need that draft for a clean reburn.

 

[Kosmik]

With considering all the additional works, I agree the logical choice here would be an insert... but still couldn't give up the images I was thinking when I bought the house. I need your help to forget about the stand alone stove.

Well, take a big cardboard box and place it infront of the fireplace. There is your free standing.

As far as insert, Google it, hundreds of images to help you decide on less work.

I'd put an insert in before I'd go busting up that fireplace...Unless you hate it, but it looks nice to me. With the money you save, get a backup generator. Then you can still play video games when the power goes out.

Besides you'll spend plenty of time on other things like chopping, storing wood and watching it burn.

Also, is the horizontal distance from chimney top to nearest object level with it more than 10'? (the second floor?).

 

[kennny]

/Kosmik, do you know what was the model you attached in your original reply? i got it in from my email and it looked pretty , but pricey.
anyone have experience with Avalon Rainier? has the biggest firebox among the ones I have considered so far.

 

[begreen]

The Rainier is a classic woodstove and almost bullet-proof. However, it too is going to want more flue.

• Chimney height: 15' minimum; 33' maximum.
  

 

[Grisu]

/Kosmik, do you know what was the model you attached in your original reply? i got it in from my email and it looked pretty , but pricey.
anyone have experience with Avalon Rainier? has the biggest firebox among the ones I have considered so far.

Anything particular that you find appealing about the Rainier? It has only 1.8 cu ft of firebox which may cut its burn times a bit short.
If Kosmik does not get back to you, try posting his picture here (upload file under the comment box). I am sure someone will recognize the stove model. What kind of budget do you have in mind?

 

[begreen]

Assuming the first floor is the area that's going to be heated, this is a relatively small space in a mild climate. The Rainier has heated many a home in this area. It would be fine here except for the flue requirement.

 

[kennny]

begreen, if my chimney is too short for it, any way I can extend it? I saw some houses have stainless pipe extended out from their roof. Is it something hard/expensive to get? since I am thinking of installing the SS liner, I could connect it to the extension?
The picture Kosmik sent was this
http://www.doctorflue.com/gallery/wood-insert-4.jpg
It most likely to be at price range out of my budget anyway though.

 

[begreen]

Yes, it can be extended with additional masonry, or an anchor plate installed and then a stainless steel extension added, or a clay or aluminum flue extender added.

www.extendaflue.com

How many square feet are there in the first floor? If this the only area the stove will heat? Another options would be to put a hearth mounted catalytic stove in like a Woodstock Keystone. Being a cat stove, it does not have a secondary burn system and may work better with the shorter chimney. You could call Woodstock and see what they think. They have a 6 month return policy if it doesn't work well.

 

[Woody Stover]

Another options would be to put a hearth mounted catalytic stove in like a Woodstock Keystone. Being a cat stove, it does not have a secondary burn system and may work better with the shorter chimney. You could call Woodstock and see what they think.

Both the Fireview and Keystone say 14' in the manual. BIL has 13.5 and Dennis has 13 with no problems. Could OP just run the liner 3' up out of the chimney, no bracing, and call it a day? If there's no problem with downdrafting off the higher main roof, it could work. Kennny, where does the prevailing wind come from in relation to the roof?

 

[begreen]

I believe the liner is supposed to terminate at the top of the chimney though I have seen setups where they switched to rigid liner at the top and extended it a couple feet more.

 

[Woody Stover]

Yeah, I was assuming rigid but I don't think he's said weather it's a straight chimney. Looks like it's gotta be, though.

 

[Grisu]

The picture Kosmik sent was this
http://www.doctorflue.com/gallery/wood-insert-4.jpg
It most likely to be at price range out of my budget anyway though.

That is a Bodart and Gonay fireplace. I think from their Optifire line. Since it is an European brand you may be right about the cost.

If you like modern-looking, flush inserts then the following may be of interest to you:

Pacific Energy Neo 1.6 or 2.5
Regency CI1250 or CI2600
Lopi Small Flush Wood Hybrid-Fyre or Declaration
Osburn Matrix
Morso 5660

Some of those are smaller inserts with burn times of about 5 to 6 hours. The others are medium sized and should give you 8 to 10 hours. Flush inserts also rely more on the blower to get the heat out than inserts that protrude onto the hearth.

 

[Kosmik]

begreen, if my chimney is too short for it, any way I can extend it? I saw some houses have stainless pipe extended out from their roof. Is it something hard/expensive to get? since I am thinking of installing the SS liner, I could connect it to the extension?
The picture Kosmik sent was this
http://www.doctorflue.com/gallery/wood-insert-4.jpg
It most likely to be at price range out of my budget anyway though.

No idea, just a random google pic that looked closer than others to your brickwork.
I googled 'masonry fireplace insert', I think.

 

[alex14]

From my point of view I think you need to go with Multi fuel burning stoves.

 

[kennny]

Sorry for not responding for a while. Had a certificate exam(job related) last weekend.

So here are few developments on this fireplace conversion project. I did get the used Avalon Rainier. It was being sold locally in my area with very clean condition and the sale included 12'+ solid piping(one rigid section of 5+ pipe plus a flexible(not liner) pipe of 7+). I will try to put up pictures of these later.

About my fireplace, there were few new findings over the weekend.
The baffle in the throat is not usable at all and falling apart from years of corrosion.(not just the baffle plate, but the whole assembly as well). It was surprising because only thing my inspector told me was that the baffle was not closing well. I guess he never stick his head into the opening.
Last weekend, I tried to force the baffle to open and it separated one corner of the assembly and half of baffle plate fell off. I probably need to take the whole thing out of the way before the insert installation. If you have any suggestion how to remove the whole baffle assembly, please let me know. I could not find much information regarding it on internet.

Good news is that my chimney actually was 13+ feet tall. I still need to measure the exact height accounting the stove height but I was glad that my initial guess was wrong. I will keep you updated.

/begreen, do you know any good chimney sweep in Bellevue/Issaquah area?

Thank you guys and have a good week.

Ken

 

[begreen]

Good to see that you are making some progress kennny. The flex pipe is most likely flex liner. It's used for the final connection through the damper area. I'm surprised that your damper is falling apart. The house doesn't look that old. Look to see if there are bolted pivot bearings on either end of the damper. If so, these pivot blocks can be unbolted and removed. Then the damper can also be pulled out. If not, a sawzall with a metal blade or a cut off grinder can cut through the axles on either end.

I don't know good sweeps in your area. Maybe give Sutter Home in Woodenville a call and see if they have a recommended list? A search of these sites shows Seattle certified sweeps and one in Redmond.
http://seattlebrickmaster.com/
http://www.csia.org/
http://www.ncsg.org/

 

[Grisu]

Not that it really matters but maybe someone burnt driftwood in there which killed the damper? Certainly not something that should go into the stove.

 

[kennny]

Hello Grisu, while I was organizing the garage, I found few boxes of pressed logs which looked very old.. .maybe that was the culprit?

begreen, thanks for the suggestion, I will start cleaning the firebox today and will look for any pivots/joints. Hope I do not have to buy another power tool

 

[begreen]

Unlikely that pressed logs did this and it would be a long haul to bring salty driftwood to your place. Hard to believe that with so much timber and clearing work happening nearby, but anything is possible. Or it could be that it was just a cheap damper assembly.