Insulation and vapor barriers Tank room?

[goosegunner]

Have a few questions before I insulate my Tank room.

I have a steel sided building that has bubble wrap over the outside of wood framing before steel was put on. It is meant to be a thermal break to reduce condensation.

I have taped the seams with foil tape before I insulate to reduce air infiltration into the wall cavity.

Questios;

Do you have to be concerned about sealing cavity too much?

Will vapor barrier now on the inside framing cause moisture problems in the cavity?

I am going to put up OSB on the inside of the outside wall so I can hang unistrut where I want it.

Can I put 1" foil foam up first over insulated walls and tape the joints then put up OSB?


Or should I keep the foil foam facing the Tank?

gg

 

[Frozen Canuck]

IIRC you have a standard 2x_ wood frame, if that is correct you should first fill the cavity (after all mech & elec in the cavity are done) with fiberglass batt, or foam if you prefer.

Yes...... you absolutely need to be concerned about sealing the cavity, moisture present in higher amounts inside any building will always seek out the dry cavity of your walls, when it gets in the biology experiment starts, mold & other really neat things will begin to grow exponentially, their good at it, they have been doing it for millions of years & have really streamlined their system in that time, productive little buggers to say the least. :bug:

6 mil is standard code req here prob where you are too. Use vapor barrier hats on all elec boxes. Seal all laps in the plastic with acoustic seal, tuck tape or both.

No need for foil foam on inside if you insulate the cavity well, as it will be behind the OSB it would reflect little to no heat back in as you will have covered the reflective surface (foil).

IIRC I did a post called "the value of insulation" quite awhile ago it should be about 15 or so pages back by now. If you can find it I cant think of anything in it that would not help as it is a short story about a shop we did for a customer last year & the results that being careful, taking your time & doing it right can yield. BTW we are supposed to get another week long -30C here soon & I intend to get back out to his shop & check on the bunny power :lol:. You will understand when you have read the post. ;-) .

Hope this helps.

 

[goosegunner]

IIRC you have a standard 2x_ wood frame, if that is correct you should first fill the cavity (after all mech & elec in the cavity are done) with fiberglass batt, or foam if you prefer.

Yes...... you absolutely need to be concerned about sealing the cavity, moisture present in higher amounts inside any building will always seek out the dry cavity of your walls, when it gets in the biology experiment starts, mold & other really neat things will begin to grow exponentially, their good at it, they have been doing it for millions of years & have really streamlined their system in that time, productive little buggers to say the least. :bug:

6 mil is standard code req here prob where you are too. Use vapor barrier hats on all elec boxes. Seal all laps in the plastic with acoustic seal, tuck tape or both.

No need for foil foam on inside if you insulate the cavity well, as it will be behind the OSB it would reflect little to no heat back in as you will have covered the reflective surface (foil).

IIRC I did a post called "the value of insulation" quite awhile ago it should be about 15 or so pages back by now. If you can find it I cant think of anything in it that would not help as it is a short story about a shop we did for a customer last year & the results that being careful, taking your time & doing it right can yield. BTW we are supposed to get another week long -30C here soon & I intend to get back out to his shop & check on the bunny power :lol:. You will understand when you have read the post. ;-) .

Hope this helps.

Thanks, I will search for the post. I do remember reading it. That is why I want to be careful about sealing for air infiltration.

Would it help to put Foil foam between OSB and the Tank in the enclosure?

gg

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Foil foam....or any reflective insulation for that matter is only beneficial if the reflective surface is exposed to the radiant surface.

In your case the foil would need to be exposed to the tank with nothing in betweeen to damper the reflection of the foil.

IMO..... in this case it would not be a worthwhile use of a product. You would be further ahead in terms of R value & ROI to use other types of insul for your tank, as well as wall cavities; fiberglass, cellulose or sprayed on foam.

Foil wraps of various types are some of the most misused products in the insul industry......Too bad as they can help alot when used in the right circumstance (situation).

Some of those "right circumstances" are between floor joists after the tubing is in for radiant heat (please note that most installers will insist on an air space between the foil & tubes) radiation takes space. As well as one everyone should be familiar with.... the large steel frame, steel skined building that has foil faced fiberglass for insulation (once again note the space available for the foil to radiate the heat back into the structure).

Hope this helps.

 

[goosegunner]

Foil foam....or any reflective insulation for that matter is only beneficial if the reflective surface is exposed to the radiant surface.

In your case the foil would need to be exposed to the tank with nothing in betweeen to damper the reflection of the foil.

IMO..... in this case it would not be a worthwhile use of a product. You would be further ahead in terms of R value & ROI to use other types of insul for your tank, as well as wall cavities; fiberglass, cellulose or sprayed on foam.

Foil wraps of various types are some of the most misused products in the insul industry......Too bad as they can help alot when used in the right circumstance (situation).

Some of those "right circumstances" are between floor joists after the tubing is in for radiant heat (please note that most installers will insist on an air space between the foil & tubes) radiation takes space. As well as one everyone should be familiar with.... the large steel frame, steel skined building that has foil faced fiberglass for insulation (once again note the space available for the foil to radiate the heat back into the structure).

Hope this helps.

Yeah it helps and thanks for your time.

My original thoughts were if I had an inch of foam in the box between the tank and the OSB I would get any additional R 6 in the space. I planned on putting in Fiberglass batts all around the tank also. I like Cellulose but if I ever need to get to the Tank I thought it would be easier to remove batts.

I will spend the money on fiberglass instead of foam board. The 6 inch wall plus 10 inch cavity on sides should get a pretty good R value.

gg

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Yes Goose 16" of fiberglass should yield about an R50 or so. Sorry I cant recall your particular setup but if you have the room you should slide some high density foam under your tank, between the concrete floor & the tank to try & limit the amount of BTU's the concrete floor can draw & radiate from your tanks. Foam is far better for this application than fiberglass or cellulose as it is far lees subject to infiltration. Kind of like what heaterman has posted for his Garn installs, entire unit sits on foam then a highly insulated enclosure is built around the unit. Helps to keep as many BTU's as possible in the system ready for distribution to where you want them.

 

[goosegunner]

Here is some pictures of my setup. I just centered the tank today for its final position. Legs are elevated on 6 stacked 2X12's so I can get foam on the floor + fiberglass under the tank.

It is 14" from the studs on the exterior wall. that will give me 20" to the exterior.

The shed side of the tank is 11"+6" stud space so I will have 17" inches of space for insulation.

The exterior is 13"+6" stud space for 19"

Boiler room end is more like 12" total but the Delta T will be less because boiler room is always warm.

I have Bubble wrap between wood and metal siding. I have sealed the bubble wrap seems with combination of Caulk, tape and foam.

Next is the fiberglass and plastic vapor barrier. No outlets or penetrations in the exterior walls in tank room. I want minimum air infiltration into tank area.

gg

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Thanks for the pics Goose. I remember your setup now. Your mindset is absolutely correct. Be totally anal about the Q.C. on insulation/air & vapor barriers. No downside whatsoever. BTW setup looks great, should serve you well for decades while you sit back & enjoy all the benefits to not comprimising during the construction phase. Sometime in the future if you are so inclined, do a graphical comparison of the time/effort/money spent to do it right v/s the time/effort/money you would have spent in the future to redo it right, my guess is your ROI on doing it right the first time with as much quality as your buget allows will be around 4 -7 years, after that all the years you sit back & enjoy....well there all gravy....pure profit in every sense. As well as all of cords of wood that you didnt have to process, because you did it right. Again congrats.

 

[goosegunner]

Thanks for the compliments.

Yes it is taking me some more time today. As I look at the room I have found other areas to seal from the main building that won't be finished inside for a while. Not only would air infiltrate but I want to keep critters out also.

I am really enjoying the indoor part so far this year. It sure beats going out in the dark, wind, and snow that I had to do with my outdoor boiler.

gg