Interesting NYSERDA pellet stove question and answer

[Fsappo]

So, the $1000/$1500 NYSERDA pellet rebate is causing a lot of buzz in NY now that the chilly weather is here. The wording on the website states "Households with income less than 80% of county median may qualify for an incentive of $1,000 for the purchase of a new pellet stove in a primary residence and an additional $500 if an existing wood, pellet stove, or insert (with firebox) is recycled'

So of course, someone contacts us and asks if a prefab wood fireplace (builders box) would qualify as a "recycled" stove. I contacted a few folks at NYSERDA and after explaining what a prefab fireplace is, they agreed to allow them in trade.

Took some convincing them that even though you don't "see" as much smoke from an open fireplace as compared to a pre epa smoldering airtight, the particulates are still there.

It makes sense and made this customers day.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

good deal!

what folks fail to understand is that a unit like a ZC dumps a huge amount of air out the stack when compared to a modern EPA stove , this diffuses the particulates but does not reduce the amount , so the "appearance" of clean burning is actually not true. it just "hides" the particulates by dissipation of a larger quantity of air

 

[Jason845845]

It pisses me off that those of us that work our tails off to make a decent living never get in on these rebates. If the fact that I come home filthy dirty and with my lungs full off god knows what doesn't make me a "working family", this state has no hope.

 

[lagger]

is the income by agi or total gross before adjustments?

 

[Fsappo]

It pisses me off that those of us that work our tails off to make a decent living never get in on these rebates. If the fact that I come home filthy dirty and with my lungs full off god knows what doesn't make me a "working family", this state has no hope.

There are no income guidelines for the $1000 rebate. I'm not supposed to sound like I am selling here. Google NYSERDA pellet stove and read about it. Its a good program. There is a list of approved stoves and the installation needs to done by a BPI certified contractor.

 

[Fsappo]

good deal!

what folks fail to understand is that a unit like a ZC dumps a huge amount of air out the stack when compared to a modern EPA stove , this diffuses the particulates but does not reduce the amount , so the "appearance" of clean burning is actually not true. it just "hides" the particulates by dissipation of a larger quantity of air

I had to explain like this "If a log makes 10 grams of particulates in a camp fire, how much goes in the air? 10, right, if it is reduced by re burn in a stove to 1 gram, how much goes in the air? 1, very good. If that same log is burned in an air tight stove from 1972, how much can go in the air? 10? If that same log is burned in a prefab fireplace with no re burn, how much will go in the air?" Long pause..."10?" right! so shouldn't we get these prefabs out of the field as quickly as an old air tight stove? "yes" Thank you for your time!

 

[mepellet]

It pisses me off that those of us that work our tails off to make a decent living never get in on these rebates. If the fact that I come home filthy dirty and with my lungs full off god knows what doesn't make me a "working family", this state has no hope.

Amen.
There really isn't much incentive to work hard to earn a good income when the state will give handouts to you if you have a mediocre job.

 

[mepellet]

.... The wording on the website states "Households with income less than 80% of county median may qualify for an incentive of $1,000 for the purchase of a new pellet stove in a primary residence and an additional $500 if an existing wood, pellet stove, or insert (with firebox) is recycled'
......

If that is in fact a quote then there doors seem to be an income restriction.

 

[Fsappo]

If that is in fact a quote then there doors seem to be an income restriction.

You get $1000 if your just anyone or $1500 if income qualified. So yes, folks that make less get more, but anyone can get something

 

[CaptSpiff]

You get $1000 if your just anyone or $1500 if income qualified. So yes, folks that make less get more, but anyone can get something

Darn details! I can't qualify because I already have natural gas service:

http://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Ef...le-Heat-NY/Residential-Wood-Pellet-Stove.aspx

http://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Ef...-Wood-Pellet-Stove/Participation-Details.aspx

 

[Fsappo]

Darn details! I can't qualify because I already have natural gas service:

http://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Ef...le-Heat-NY/Residential-Wood-Pellet-Stove.aspx

http://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Ef...-Wood-Pellet-Stove/Participation-Details.aspx

I actually agree with that one. From the fuzzy math I have done, It seems that burning natural gas in a high efficiency gas stove or fireplace in CNY gives you close to the same net BTU/$ as burning pellets. I understand that some folks want to burn pellets for other reasons than to save net dollars, but I think the program should go to folks who are in the most need to save on heat. Gets chilly up our way once in a while.

 

[rdubs20]

Fsappo,
I am just looking into this NYSERTA pellet stove incentive myself. Would it really be worth it to get the rebate when you have to have a certified person install the stove anyway? I bet that cost a lot and would eat up your incentive. I have never installed a pellet stove but it doesn't look that hard for someone that is moderately inclined. What do you think? Would you really be saving that much money?

 

[Fsappo]

I guess it depends on if you qualify for the $1000 or $1500 rebate. The labor end of the installs we do locally ends up being $600 for a simple, set, vent, hearth pad, oak and fire up. But here is the thing, you can gt cheap qualifying pellet stoves and install it yourself , not get the rebate and still be cheaper than a qualifyingg stove.

For instance, thru us as a "Hearth Shop" $300 for hearth, $3400 for GF55 stove, $250 for vent, $600 labor =$4500. $3500 after rebate. Or go buy an Englander for $1500, build a hearth for $100, buy home depot pipe kit for $175 invest a day or so of your time and be done for under $2000. Its all about if you want a big box store stove or not. Lots o fways to look at it.

 

[acammer]

Fsappo,
I am just looking into this NYSERTA pellet stove incentive myself. Would it really be worth it to get the rebate when you have to have a certified person install the stove anyway? I bet that cost a lot and would eat up your incentive. I have never installed a pellet stove but it doesn't look that hard for someone that is moderately inclined. What do you think? Would you really be saving that much money?

That's where I landed - by the time I paid retail for the stove and installation buying a factory second from AMFM and installing it myself was cheaper. Much cheaper. And now I can resell my old stove instead of giving it up. I'm in that working two jobs to just barely scrap by, but still don't meet the income guidelines for the better credit. Why is it I'm working so hard? Oh yes, it must be to get taxed half to death to fund the other half's paid vacations.

 

[Fsappo]

That's where I landed - by the time I paid retail for the stove and installation buying a factory second from AMFM and installing it myself was cheaper. Much cheaper. And now I can resell my old stove instead of giving it up. I'm in that working two jobs to just barely scrap by, but still don't meet the income guidelines for the better credit. Why is it I'm working so hard? Oh yes, it must be to get taxed half to death to fund the other half's paid vacations.

When I promoted this program on CL, I had to be VERY clear that this program will only help a handful of people. The people that cant flat out afford a pellet stove but need one, cant afford the $3000-$4000 outlay on their end to buy one that qualifies and to have it installed by a BPI Certified tech.

Or, people will do it themselves and be cheaper.. or

Someone will already have their heart set on a qualifying stove, not want to install it themselves, not have a tight budget, happen to have a stove to recycle and this just helps them save money.

I think the goal was to help folks looking to buy or upgrade go for something more efficient. Any veteran of these boards has already figured the huge mistake here. They are paying to replace ANY pellet stove over 2.0 grams per hour with one under 2 grams. So, $1500 in tax money for someone to go from a perfectly fine pellet stove, to one only slightly better. Thank goodness this is only a pilot program. $1500 to go from 2.8 GPH to 1.9? criminy. I'm all for replace dragons. This is the first time NYS developed a program without consulting a soul in the associated industry. They are normally so thorough

 

[rdubs20]

I am planning on either the m55 cast or quad mt vernon e2 and recycling my out wood fireplace. I qualify for the $1500, so I am happy for that. Sorry everyone else. I am a full time teacher and my wife is a stay at home mom with our 2 kids. So if I can get a break from the gov. I'll take it. Just wanted to know if it was really worth going through the whole process.

M55 is on the list of stoves for the incentive. The mt vernon e2 is not. I am trying to figure out numbers so that I can get out the cheapest that I can. I am thinking the incentive probably be the way to go if I can find someone that can install near me.

 

[acammer]

Agreed - it's kinda of a program that's gonna connect with only a small niche of folks. I guess that's ok, but not so well thought out. Good old NYS.

I agree if they're gonna give a break you gotta take it, nothing wrong with that.

 

[rdubs20]

haha....ya thats what I am hoping for

 

[rdubs20]

Fsappo,
I am a few hours from your shop. Can you pm me a few price quotes for the m55 cast fs and the the quad mt vernon e2? And which one you would recommend.
thanks,
Bob

 

[3650]

If they can't afford a pellet stove, how will they afford pellets? Chances are their home won't be properly insulated so they'll need twice as many pellets. Will taxpayers foot the bill for insulating and weatherproofing their home? Then you have to ask will they have what it takes to make a pellet stove work for them? I can see CL being flooded with used pellet stoves soon.

 

[Fsappo]

If they can't afford a pellet stove, how will they afford pellets? Chances are their home won't be properly insulated so they'll need twice as many pellets. Will taxpayers foot the bill for insulating and weatherproofing their home? Then you have to ask will they have what it takes to make a pellet stove work for them? I can see CL being flooded with used pellet stoves soon.

Depending on qualifications, yes..they can also get their home insulated. this is funded by that little line item on your electric bill. Forgot what it says, but its there. This always includes the stove being replaced being recycled. Can you imagine hauling a perfectly working 5 year old Mt Vernon AE to the scrapper simply because it wasn't listed on NYSERDAs site?

 

[rdubs20]

I guess the NYS gov. has low interest loans for anybody that needs a more energy effecient house. For example new windows, doors, insulation.

 

[rdubs20]

Thats crazy! Why isn't the mt vernon e2 on that list? It's supposed to be 87 percent effecient

 

[Fsappo]

based on "published" emissions. Here is a list of stoves that qualify
http://www.nyserda.ny.gov/Energy-Ef...le-Heat-NY/Residential-Wood-Pellet-Stove.aspx
Just click at the bottom where it says "New stove requirements"
Maybe that one is on the list, I don't recall. But any stove NOT on that list would need to be recycled INCLUDING ANY Wood stove. So how about scrapping a 2 year old BK, Jotul, Woodstock, etc wood stove? Now this probably wont happen, because instead of taking a $1000 rebate, you could just sell your existing stove for more. But it just goes to show how well thought out this plan is. I know its a pilot program, but I hope that means they will consult with someone who has actually seen a wood pellet before going into full launch mode.

Hah, who will make out is the guys at the scrap yard. Take it off your truck, pay you $50 bucks, clean it up and throw it on CL for 10 times that much.

 

[lagger]

There are no income guidelines for the $1000 rebate. I'm not supposed to sound like I am selling here. Google NYSERDA pellet stove and read about it. Its a good program. There is a list of approved stoves and the installation needs to done by a BPI certified contractor.

yes there is it is 80% of the median in your County, the cut off is about 55 K in mine, and I am past that so NO SOUP FOR YOU