Is a 20" box fan killing my draft?

[barnyardengineering]

There is a box fan hung at the ceiling just out of frame to the left, denoted by the red box, meant to circulate the warm air from the stove to the rest of the house. It pulls air, denoted by the blue arrows, directly along the horizontal run of the stove pipe.

A fan has been there as long as I can remember, 48 years, through multiple wood stoves. This is the only one that has had a horizontal run of pipe, and only because the door is on the wrong end of the firebox.

I think that fan is killing my draft by pulling too much heat off that section of pipe, especially when the stove is cold, and this may be a large part of the problems I've been having.

After 2-1/2 hours trying to get the fire burning again this afternoon, I had the bright idea to shoot the temp of the horizontal pipe with my IR gun. 120F. When I turned the fan off the temp on the pipe immediately rose, and the higher it got the better the fire burned. Within 15 minutes I had a nice roaring fire, and had to close the air intake down. The pipe was 170F.

I understand the horizontal run doesn't do the draft any good, and sucking the heat off it with the fan can't help.

Do I dare think that I may have solved a 20+ year old mystery?

 

[bholler]

View attachment 307888
There is a box fan hung at the ceiling just out of frame to the left, denoted by the red box, meant to circulate the warm air from the stove to the rest of the house. It pulls air, denoted by the blue arrows, directly along the horizontal run of the stove pipe.

A fan has been there as long as I can remember, 48 years, through multiple wood stoves. This is the only one that has had a horizontal run of pipe, and only because the door is on the wrong end of the firebox.

I think that fan is killing my draft by pulling too much heat off that section of pipe, especially when the stove is cold, and this may be a large part of the problems I've been having.

After 2-1/2 hours trying to get the fire burning again this afternoon, I had the bright idea to shoot the temp of the horizontal pipe with my IR gun. 120F. When I turned the fan off the temp on the pipe immediately rose, and the higher it got the better the fire burned. Within 15 minutes I had a nice roaring fire, and had to close the air intake down. The pipe was 170F.

I understand the horizontal run doesn't do the draft any good, and sucking the heat off it with the fan can't help.

Do I dare think that I may have solved a 20+ year old mystery?

The pipe at 170 is still really low

 

[bholler]

You have said the stove never worked right. Those stoves were actually pretty good for their day. How tall is your chimney?

 

[Highbeam]

View attachment 307888
There is a box fan hung at the ceiling just out of frame to the left, denoted by the red box, meant to circulate the warm air from the stove to the rest of the house. It pulls air, denoted by the blue arrows, directly along the horizontal run of the stove pipe.

A fan has been there as long as I can remember, 48 years, through multiple wood stoves. This is the only one that has had a horizontal run of pipe, and only because the door is on the wrong end of the firebox.

I think that fan is killing my draft by pulling too much heat off that section of pipe, especially when the stove is cold, and this may be a large part of the problems I've been having.

After 2-1/2 hours trying to get the fire burning again this afternoon, I had the bright idea to shoot the temp of the horizontal pipe with my IR gun. 120F. When I turned the fan off the temp on the pipe immediately rose, and the higher it got the better the fire burned. Within 15 minutes I had a nice roaring fire, and had to close the air intake down. The pipe was 170F.

I understand the horizontal run doesn't do the draft any good, and sucking the heat off it with the fan can't help.

Do I dare think that I may have solved a 20+ year old mystery?

I burn a stove in my large cold shop with 10’ of exposed single wall before the ceiling box where it hits the class a chimney. I have a ceiling fan near the stove. If it’s cold in the shop and that fan is on it can kill my draft.

It’s bad enough that I may upgrade to double wall inside pipe to help keep flue temps up for the sake of draft strength.

 

[barnyardengineering]

The pipe at 170 is still really low

Double wall pipe. I'm sure it's much hotter inside.

 

[bholler]

Double wall pipe. I'm sure it's much hotter inside.

Oh why are you bothering to measure surface temp of double wall? It's meaningless

 

[barnyardengineering]

You have said the stove never worked right. Those stoves were actually pretty good for their day. How tall is your chimney?

Some people say they're pretty good, others say they are no good.

Chimney is about 13-1/2' from where it goes through the wall to the top. Too short, I know, but there's nothing I can do about it.

 

[barnyardengineering]

Oh why are you bothering to measure surface temp of double wall? It's meaningless

Relative measurement. 50 degrees difference fan on to fan off.

 

[bholler]

Some people say they're pretty good, others say they are no good.

Chimney is about 13-1/2' from where it goes through the wall to the top. Too short, I know, but there's nothing I can do about it.

Double wall pipe is good. But measuring surface temps of it means nothing get a probe thermometer.

Why can't you do anything about the height? We add height to chimneys all the time

 

[barnyardengineering]

Double wall pipe is good. But measuring surface temps of it means nothing get a probe thermometer.

Why can't you do anything about the height? We add height to chimneys all the time

Real simple. I don't climb on the roof. Period.

Doesn't matter. As usual, my victory was short-lived. Since that load of wood burned down, I can't get the fire going again. No matter what I do it just won't burn.

Plus without that fan pushing the warm air around the rest of the house is FREEZING.

 

[bholler]

Real simple. I don't climb on the roof. Period.

Doesn't matter. As usual, my victory was short-lived. Since that load of wood burned down, I can't get the fire going again. No matter what I do it just won't burn.

Plus without that fan pushing the warm air around the rest of the house is FREEZING.

What moisture content is your wood at? Wouldn't it be worth having the chimney extended so you could stop fighting the stove?

 

[barnyardengineering]

What moisture content is your wood at? Wouldn't it be worth having the chimney extended so you could stop fighting the stove?

No idea on the moisture content but the wood has been split and stacked and stored indoors for over a year. It was dead ash to start with.

Sure it would be worth having the chimney extended, if there were anyone reputable around to do it.

Pretty sure even if I could find someone, they would insist on rebuilding the chimney from the ground up.

 

[bholler]

No idea on the moisture content but the wood has been split and stacked and stored indoors for over a year. It was dead ash to start with.

Sure it would be worth having the chimney extended, if there were anyone reputable around to do it.

Pretty sure even if I could find someone, they would insist on rebuilding the chimney from the ground up.

Stored indoors for a year means nothing honestly it could easily still be way to wet.

And there are several reputable sweeps in the Rochester area. Check the NY chimney sweep guild

 

[barnyardengineering]

Stored indoors for a year means nothing honestly it could easily still be way to wet.

And there are several reputable sweeps in the Rochester area. Check the NY chimney sweep guild

The wood is way drier than anything I had to burn last year.

I'm 60 miles South of Rochester, actually. Nobody from Rochester will come out here, and there's nobody reputable local. All there are are a couple of wood stove dealers who just want to sell you the highest priced thing they have on the floor.

Believe me, I've asked around. Hardly anyone burns wood anymore, and those that do, do all their chimney work themselves. They can't recommend anyone and when I say I'm going with so-and-so, they say, "Don't go with so-and-so, he'll screw you over."

 

[bholler]

The wood is way drier than anything I had to burn last year.

I'm 60 miles South of Rochester, actually. Nobody from Rochester will come out here, and there's nobody reputable local. All there are are a couple of wood stove dealers who just want to sell you the highest priced thing they have on the floor.

Believe me, I've asked around. Hardly anyone burns wood anymore, and those that do, do all their chimney work themselves. They can't recommend anyone and when I say I'm going with so-and-so, they say, "Don't go with so-and-so, he'll screw you over."

Really no one in that area of upstate NY burns wood? I have been to several ny guild workshops up that way and it seemed like the local guys had plenty of customers.

I am sorry but without knowing actual pipe temps moisture content of wood etc etc we can't really offer much advice. The obvious things like the 90 and the long horizontal run combined with the chimney that isn't very tall have been suggested but they apparently can't be changed

 

[BillBurns]

When all else fails, crack the door a little. Usually works.

 

[bholler]

When all else fails, crack the door a little. Usually works.

It will also thermal shock his cat which will make it break down fast

 

[kborndale]

The fan would work better to circulate air if you had it on the floor blowing cold air towards the stove. Try getting a bag of wood from the supermarket and see if it burns better than what you have, if it does than your wood is too wet.

 

[barnyardengineering]

Really no one in that area of upstate NY burns wood? I have been to several ny guild workshops up that way and it seemed like the local guys had plenty of customers.

I am sorry but without knowing actual pipe temps moisture content of wood etc etc we can't really offer much advice. The obvious things like the 90 and the long horizontal run combined with the chimney that isn't very tall have been suggested but they apparently can't be changed

Very few people that I know burn wood anymore. They got windmill money and switched to propane.

The only ones that do are general contractors and do their own chimney work. I've tried to hire them for various jobs but they are too busy building migrant worker houses for the big dairy farms in the area. Forget getting something done on an emergency basis.

I just put the new cat, WITH gasket, in and am relighting the stove. The old cat had completely turned to dust. I vacuumed out and rodded the grate so all the holes are open. Here's hoping.

 

[barnyardengineering]

BY THE WAY... What good does a probe thermometer do me? There is no place to probe.

 

[Corey]

I doubt the fan 'sucking heat off the pipe' is causing any issue. Though if that fan is aimed at a doorway/hallway or other restricted opening , it could be causing a low pressure in the room. Draft is typically working in hundredths of an inch of water...eg.. 0.03 - 0.05". So a box fan could pretty easily overwhelm that.

The quick test would be to move the box fan to blow cold air at the stove. If there is a doorway, set the fan in or near that doorway blowing at the stove. You'll still be moving heat...actually probably getting a lot more heat...but blowing air at the stove will have a positive pressure effect for the room.

 

[vbu]

BY THE WAY... What good does a probe thermometer do me? There is no place to probe.

You drill a small hole in the pipe

 

[barnyardengineering]

Thanks, I'd already determined that last night was a FLUKE. It just happened to be in transition when I turned the fan off.

With the new cat in place the stove had a roaring fire in less than an hour, starting from a few red coals in the bottom of the firebox. Didn't even use a match. Just stirred up the coals, threw some floor sweepin's from the woodshed on top, and left the bypass open.

When I switched it over to the cat the draw seemed to increase. So, that's good.

It's given me false hope many many times before, so we will see if this apparent success lasts.

 

[barnyardengineering]

You drill a small hole in the pipe

Not supposed to drill double walled pipe, I thought?

 

[vbu]

Not supposed to drill double walled pipe, I thought?

This is what a bunch of guys here have. It says to drill a 1/8" hole

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