Is a pellet stove right for me? (Trying to heat whole house)

[Lunatics]

Hey guys, first off I apologize if this is not the place to post this but I am hoping to get some advice and knowledge/recommendations from people more versed in this.

I purchased a house last year, it is a small cape about 1100sqft, and is my first time living somewhere with oil and spent far more than I realized I would last year on oil. I know the house is old and drafty and I am looking into improving the insulation, however I am starting to look into alternatives for heating the house and some people had recommended pellet stoves.

I was thinking of trying to go down the route of installing a stove in my basement which is about 775 sqft, open and unfinished without insulated ceilings. My hope was if I oversized on a stove it would be able to run down in the basement and allow the heat to rise and be my primary heat source for the house and install vents if needed to help allow the air to move up into the rooms.

The first floor which is currently all I am using as living area has fairly small rooms and not much air flow through them and I really don't have much room in any of the rooms to actually put a pellet stove I feel. I typically keep my house around 65-68, maybe 70 max so I am not looking for or expecting the place to be boiling hot, but wondering if this would be sufficient to keep everything at a comfortable temperature. Even if I go through 2 or 3 tons of pellets, that's still only like one and a half tanks of oil lol.

I feel like with it being a fairly small house it doesn't seem unreasonable to think this would work but people have given me mixed reactions when I talked about this.

If people think this would work and is not crazy, I guess my next step or question would be what to look for as far as a unit goes and if I should consider looking for a used one?

I know Harman is the go to recommendation however it is out of my budget at the moment, especially a new one and since I am trying to save money on oil. I stopped by a fireplace store and the guy was recommending the Quadra Fire Outfitter 2 but after doing some research and reading it seems like it is the same thing as the PelPro PP130 which is $1000 cheaper and my store happens to have a unit on display with some scratches and rust on it that they are advertising for $999.

I am wondering if it's worth it to just start here and see if I can get a year or 2 out of the thing and if it actually does what I want it to and if I want to commit to the work/process involved going forward and if so, then I think about finding a Harman if I am going to stick with this route.

Sorry for the word salad, any help or advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I am hoping a stove like this may be a viable option for heating my home and saving me some money on other heating methods going forward.

 

[jackman]

You stated your case very well and welcome to the forum. Yes, this is a good place to get recommendations. Presumably you've worked some numbers and calculated that heating with pellets will save you money in your part of the country. Another thing for you to consider is the maintenance required to managing your pellet supply, feeding them into the hopper, and cleaning the stove. It's much more work than changing the thermostat setting on the oil burner. So if you're okay with that then at $999 I'd say, go for it, and try it out for at least a season or 2. Heating the downstairs is a good idea since you then won't have to listen to the blower noise.

Good luck and let us know how you decide.

 

[mtnbiker727]

The best location for a pellet stove is in the space that you're trying to heat. Many of the old crusty guys on here say that these stoves are nothing more than space heaters, so trying to heat your entire home with a pellet stove is crazy. I disagree, but I also bought a big stove and picked the location very carefully. We'll see what happens in our new poorly insulated house... but the stove location in our new house is much better than where it was in our current house.

I had a basement install for the last 6 years. It worked pretty well heating a single story house by blowing directly into an open stairwell and keeping the basement door open at the top of the stairs. I could close off half the basement, so it was only around 400 square feet of space to heat down there. The kitchen and living room are open upstairs, and I would have to open the kids' bedrooms at night to let the warm air in on really cold nights. The basement was regularly 85 to 90 degrees in order to make it 72 degrees immediately up the stairs in the kitchen in our well-insulated house.

To improve my success, I put a fan on top of the pellet hopper to blow across the top of the stove, and a fan in the stairwell to blow the warm air up the stairs better. My stove is a Harman P68, which is a 68,000 BTU stove, which easily handled the task. The stoves you're looking at are smaller, so they will have to work harder to accomplish the same thing. I always advocate for a bigger stove than you think you need, because you can slow a big stove down, but you can't get more heat out of a smaller stove.

The lack of insulation makes me wonder if this will work for you. Your stove will have to work hard and your basement will have to get pretty hot to keep the first floor warm, especially if it's a closed floorplan. If your basement does not have insulation in the walls, then you might be disappointed. There was someone on here a few years ago talking about getting a big Harman like mine, which would burn up a whole hopper of pellets just to take the chill off their uninsulated basement.

Feel free to ask more questions, there are a bunch of great people on here that helped me tremendously.

Good luck, and keep us updated!

 

[Lunatics]

The best location for a pellet stove is in the space that you're trying to heat. Many of the old crusty guys on here say that these stoves are nothing more than space heaters, so trying to heat your entire home with a pellet stove is crazy. I disagree, but I also bought a big stove and picked the location very carefully. We'll see what happens in our new poorly insulated house... but the stove location in our new house is much better than where it was in our current house.

I had a basement install for the last 6 years. It worked pretty well heating a single story house by blowing directly into an open stairwell and keeping the basement door open at the top of the stairs. I could close off half the basement, so it was only around 400 square feet of space to heat down there. The kitchen and living room are open upstairs, and I would have to open the kids' bedrooms at night to let the warm air in on really cold nights. The basement was regularly 85 to 90 degrees in order to make it 72 degrees immediately up the stairs in the kitchen in our well-insulated house.

To improve my success, I put a fan on top of the pellet hopper to blow across the top of the stove, and a fan in the stairwell to blow the warm air up the stairs better. My stove is a Harman P68, which is a 68,000 BTU stove, which easily handled the task. The stoves you're looking at are smaller, so they will have to work harder to accomplish the same thing. I always advocate for a bigger stove than you think you need, because you can slow a big stove down, but you can't get more heat out of a smaller stove.

The lack of insulation makes me wonder if this will work for you. Your stove will have to work hard and your basement will have to get pretty hot to keep the first floor warm, especially if it's a closed floorplan. If your basement does not have insulation in the walls, then you might be disappointed. There was someone on here a few years ago talking about getting a big Harman like mine, which would burn up a whole hopper of pellets just to take the chill off their uninsulated basement.

Feel free to ask more questions, there are a bunch of great people on here that helped me tremendously.

Good luck, and keep us updated!

I would love to go with something like you have or any Harman but I think it is too far out of my price range at the moment unless I try to get something used which may come with other issues and I would lose the tax credit which would help a bit with the costs.

I completely agree on bigger than what you need is better which is why I thought something rated "up to 2500 sqft" would be enough to handle my measly place but maybe I'm severely under estimating how much heat I would lose etc.

With the rooms being so small on the first floor and it being fairly closed my concern was that air would not flow around and would get confined to whatever room the unit was in vs letting it blow through the basement and rise through registers in the rooms upstairs but maybe it just simply won't work as well as I think it will. Hearing so many people say they're able to heat their bigger homes on only or primarily only a pellet stove makes me hopeful though that there may be a solution that would work for me. Even if I burn pellets not the most efficiently I feel like it would still probably be cheaper than oil. I would just hate to spend the money on a unit and go through installing it and the venting etc and have it not really do much for me the way I wanted it to lol.

 

[Washed-Up]

It is possible I believe…but more info would be great, basement construction, location of stairwell etc…and as said above mtnbiker727, had his big boy(mines only a P61) pointed at the stairwell and installed a fan to help blow the heat as well. You’ll also need to look at where the exhaust and oak(outside air kit) can be located. With it being a bit drafty and insulated poorly you’ll need an OAK. Tons of experience here by most and willing to help…welcome to the forum.

 

[Lunatics]

It is possible I believe…but more info would be great, basement construction, location of stairwell etc…and as said above mtnbiker727, had his big boy(mines only a P61) pointed at the stairwell and installed a fan to help blow the heat as well. You’ll also need to look at where the exhaust and oak(outside air kit) can be located. With it being a bit drafty and insulated poorly you’ll need an OAK. Tons of experience here by most and willing to help…welcome to the forum.

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So this is a basic drawing of the layout, its just a simple square about 25 by 30 feet, my thought was to put the pellet stove where I marked in red with it blowing across the basement towards the stairwell. The black lines are the stairwell and the direction to go up the stairs from the basement.

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The second picture is a really basic scan of the layout of my first floor from my robot vacuum. The location of where I was thinking about putting the stove would essentially be below the closets in my "bedroom" and "office" as those are the 2 main rooms I spend time in and figured if I had to I could put registers in the floor to help allow the heat to rise into these rooms and the living room if needed.

As far as construction of the basement I do not have a ton of other information about it. I had insulation around the edges of the foundation and recently had a weatherization audit thing where they pulled out the insulation, sealed up any gaps or whatever behind it in the foundation and put the insulation back. I honestly feel like the basement stays warmer than the upstairs typically unless its extremely cold but usually by that point my heat would be on and running so it's hard to say for sure, but even this past weekend my thermostat would say 50-54 in my living room but going downstairs would feel quite a bit warmer.

The basement ceiling does not have any insulation which I figured would be helpful if I wanted heat to rise the way I was thinking about.

Let me know if there is any other information I could provide to help think about whether or not this would be a viable solution to even consider. Thanks for any help!

 

[zrock]

Best spot to put your stove is directly across from the stairs so the blower will push the air up the stairs. Have you looked around for a Used stove, i have a old breckwell that is not pretty but pushes out the heat. In the last 5 years i have had to replace every component in the stove but thats fine as i was expecting that and actually had everything already except for the main board. I would recommend a ceiling fan or 2 in your upstairs to help circulate the air.

 

[johneh]

What you want to do may or may not work.
The thing to remember is that a stove is a space heater, not a furnace
So your expectations may be a little high
Also, cutting vents into floors may move the heat, but also
Act like a chimney in a fire, so check your local code or Fire service
It could also affect your insurance

 

[Dataman]

I know it's out of your Price Range, but I would go Cold Temp Heat Pump. I put in replacement for our 24 year old unit. Madiea G3 Evox. So far very cheap to run. Cold temps ahead. Worse power usage so far for Whole House (2 Shops and Heated Garage) is 90kw. You could get by with Mini Split I bet.

Pellets are getting even more expensive now. I have Harmon XXV also. Plan on using it when temps get -10f at night. I make sure Surge Protecter was part of package for new HVAC. Also ordered washable filters. Merv8. Also put in Humidifier and Remy LED for Dust Control (No dust in Sunlight now). (Use Couple of Box fans to move air down the hallway)

I have Battery Backup for Pellet Stove for 24 hours (need to replace batteries next year). Small Generator for after that. Have yet to experience more than 10 hours without power.

Note lots of Financing for Heat Pumps and Tax Advantage if you can get it before end of year.

 

[Tonyray]

If your cellar or basement is un-insulated most of the P68 Heat will get absorbed by cement or brick..
been there/done that. 'moved my P61A to 1st floor........ heating 2 floors now...

 

[EbS-P]

how many heating zones do you have?

For an un-insulated basement install you can estimate you loose 30% of you heat out the walls.

Remember solid fuel heaters are space heaters. We try to push them to run as whole house heaters but unfortunately it rarely works out that way unless you have a very open floor plan.

unless you insulate the basement I vote upstairs. Air sealing is relatively cheap. Caulk and can foam. An IR camera will help you find the leaks. Do that no matter what else you do.

 

[Lunatics]

I currently only have one heating zone, just the singular thermostat in the living room going back to the oil furnace in the basement for the whole house.

While I understand pellets are increasing in price etc, when I thought about it and was doing the math it seemed like even if I was cranking through them and went through 3 tons a winter or whatever, it would still come out to the price of one and a half tanks of oil or so in the winter (275) and I feel like I went through 3-4 last year.

Insulating the basement walls is a good point and as I mentioned maybe I am misunderstanding or under estimating just how much heat I would actually lose to the walls.

I could always think about a heat pump or mini split etc, but I was always under the impression they may not be the best solution or most efficient thing for cold environments. I also did not think a mini split would properly get the heat everywhere on my first floor with how closed off it is, but I will consider these options more. I was afraid with the price of electricity and if the system cannot run as efficiently in the cold, it may defeat the purpose of looking into it.

Again I appreciate all of the information and advice and suggestions and have more things to think about and consider to try and make an informed decision.

 

[Dataman]

Been heating with Heat Pump since we got this house (2011). Used to switch at 30f to Wood Stove/Pellet Stove. New Cold Weather Heat Pump. So far Electrical use has min. We run Four 5k Shop Heaters in 2 Buildings. Last year Nov power bill was $230, looks like this year for Nov (Oct Usage) will be less. Lots of variables to consider. Too little numbers for now. New Heat Pump is very quiet and more efficient for AC. Heating seems better but only have been down to 24f so far. Current estimate for Nov Bill will be $140.

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[Lunatics]

Been heating with Heat Pump since we got this house (2011). Used to switch at 30f to Wood Stove/Pellet Stove. New Cold Weather Heat Pump. So far Electrical use has min. We run Four 5k Shop Heaters in 2 Buildings. Last year Nov power bill was $230, looks like this year for Nov (Oct Usage) will be less. Lots of variables to consider. Too little numbers for now. New Heat Pump is very quiet and more efficient for AC. Heating seems better but only have been down to 24f so far. Current estimate for Nov Bill will be $140.

Thanks for this info. I will say based on a quick Google search it seems like the average electricity rates in Washington are around 1/3 to 1/2 of what they are in Connecticut which is why I dread so much about relying too much on electric for heating. While I know a stove would still use some, I figured it would be less than something like a heat pump in the winter or even less than my big furnace blower motor turning on and off 24/7 having a smaller fan and auger motor going in a stove.

My heat pump water heater was a life saver for my electrical bill, also likely that my old one was having issues and not running efficiently due to age but I did not expect to see as drastic results as I ended up seeing so I definitely know they can be beneficial but this is indoors in the basement compared to having the equipment outside and needing to heat a house etc but it is something to at least consider or think about.

I know someone through work last year who had a geothermal heat pump installed to heat and cool their house and I remember it being a nightmare for them and had so many issues with it not working properly after install.

I guess even with a stove that could have comparable BTU output to my furnace is going to have that issues with not actually pumping the heat into the rooms directly so it's hard for me to gauge how it might feel and the comfortability, especially without having somewhere doing something similar to try and experience he way it would actually feel or act.

 

[Dataman]

Rates pretty low here. .0660 cents or such. Plus $35 dollar fee. https://popud.org/top-links/about-your-pud/our-rates

 

[EbS-P]

Rates pretty low here. .0660 cents or such. Plus $35 dollar fee. https://popud.org/top-links/about-your-pud/our-rates

I don’t know if they get any lower in the US!

 

[Fred B. NJ]

I have a 2 story bi-level house. I heat with a wood stove on the first floor with the stove against the far side wall. The stairs are in the middle, pretty much like the drawing posted. I have two 12" x 24" vents in the ceiling of the stove room. I maintain the same temp downstairs and in the rooms above, a little cooler in the far end of the upstairs, which are the bedrooms. No fans just natural raising heat and the stairwell acts as a cold air return to the downstairs. This system has worked perfectly for 45 years. The key is the vents.

 

[mtnbiker727]

I would love to go with something like you have or any Harman but I think it is too far out of my price range at the moment unless I try to get something used which may come with other issues and I would lose the tax credit which would help a bit with the costs.

I completely agree on bigger than what you need is better which is why I thought something rated "up to 2500 sqft" would be enough to handle my measly place but maybe I'm severely under estimating how much heat I would lose etc.

With the rooms being so small on the first floor and it being fairly closed my concern was that air would not flow around and would get confined to whatever room the unit was in vs letting it blow through the basement and rise through registers in the rooms upstairs but maybe it just simply won't work as well as I think it will. Hearing so many people say they're able to heat their bigger homes on only or primarily only a pellet stove makes me hopeful though that there may be a solution that would work for me. Even if I burn pellets not the most efficiently I feel like it would still probably be cheaper than oil. I would just hate to spend the money on a unit and go through installing it and the venting etc and have it not really do much for me the way I wanted it to lol.

The "up to 2,500 square feet" is a bit misleading... they are assuming you're trying to heat one giant insulated room.

Your floor plan picture didn't load for me.

You have to figure out how to move air around the inside of the house and from the basement up to the first floor and back down. You will likely have to use fans.

I disconnected the air ducts in my kids' bedrooms, hoping that the heat would go up through them and warm the kids' rooms. What I found was warm air went up the stairwell and cold air fell down the stairwell, and the air ducts did very little. It's a weird feeling walking up the stairs when your head is warm and your feet are getting chilled... but that's what we learned in elementary school.

You're right that pellets are cheaper than oil. I have a little slider chart that compares price per BTU of different fuels. I paid $290 per ton for my pellets. According to my chart, oil would have to be $2.50 per gallon to match that.

 

[ADK8258*]

had same experience running oil furnace here in Adirondacks , bought uninsulated 1700sq' home built 1900 . 1st winter here $3k+ in oil . bought & installed a pp 130 & 5 ton pellets , heats whole house installed 1st floor , use 4 ton per winter up till now . point being the stove pellets & piping paid for them selves the 1st winter . this year I had ins blown in finally & am stoked to see savings if any from ins . good luck

 

[Lunatics]

Thanks everyone for your advice and helpful information.

I am getting close to a decision and if the price is right for this "scratch and dent" type model which has minimal scratches and some rust on it etc, it seems like it may be worth it to give it a shot without as massive of an investment and if things work out, then when this thing craps the bed I can think about a longer term solution and maybe the tax credits will come back at that point. I know the PP130 is not the most recommended or reliable machine but if I can get a deal on one that's "new" (tag on back says it was built in March of 2023) and still get the tax credit, it may not be the worst decision. Worst case if it does not do what I need or hope it will, I have a massive space heater I can use to help keep my basement warm and maybe start doing more things down there lol.

Going to get some information about insurance and permits or inspections etc and what I need to think about in that regard and what costs might come with it but I'm leaning towards taking the jump to give it a try....I will keep everyone updated if I do and how it works out and any other advice or info is always appreciated, Thanks!

 

[Whitenuckler]

Thanks everyone for your advice and helpful information.

I am getting close to a decision and if the price is right for this "scratch and dent" type model which has minimal scratches and some rust on it etc, it seems like it may be worth it to give it a shot without as massive of an investment and if things work out, then when this thing craps the bed I can think about a longer term solution and maybe the tax credits will come back at that point. I know the PP130 is not the most recommended or reliable machine but if I can get a deal on one that's "new" (tag on back says it was built in March of 2023) and still get the tax credit, it may not be the worst decision. Worst case if it does not do what I need or hope it will, I have a massive space heater I can use to help keep my basement warm and maybe start doing more things down there lol.

Going to get some information about insurance and permits or inspections etc and what I need to think about in that regard and what costs might come with it but I'm leaning towards taking the jump to give it a try....I will keep everyone updated if I do and how it works out and any other advice or info is always appreciated, Thanks!

Check out the different models available:

PelPro Pellet Stoves

Our pellet stoves provide practical high-efficiency heating for your home. Use a PelPro pellet burning stove to heat your home through winter this year!

forgenflame.com

I am not sure if the PP130 is a current production model?
However if the price is right, that would make a difference if you can continue to get parts and have a warranty

 

[Dataman]

What works best for you. When I upgraded from Wood Stove to Pellet had to do permit. Just a Tax Really. No Permit for HVAC replacement.

 

[Lunatics]

Check out the different models available:

PelPro Pellet Stoves

Our pellet stoves provide practical high-efficiency heating for your home. Use a PelPro pellet burning stove to heat your home through winter this year!

forgenflame.com

I am not sure if the PP130 is a current production model?
However if the price is right, that would make a difference if you can continue to get parts and have a warranty

It's a 130-B it's the current model they sell at tractor supply.