Job creation from a 1%er

[begreen]

This was a thoughtful TED talk by Nick Hanauer. He's a successful multi-millionaire that challenges the notion that the very wealthy create jobs. A local boy, he is pushing for $15 minimum wage here.



http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2022920936_hanauerprofilexml.html

 

[razerface]

He did not convince me of anything. He misses the definition of "consumer" and "job creator". If someone who makes money spends it on "stuff",,,they are consumers. If you take your money and start a company, you are a "job creator".

Someone making $15 hr, does not go out and start companies. It takes more money then that,,,so if you take away that larger amount of money some people have,,,jobs will not be created. A group of hourly workers will not start a company and create jobs.

If you raise wages, the price of the product has to also be raised, so will you again raise wages? . It is all simple math,,,


I started and own my own company. I make more money then my employees, and always will. If my company goes bankrupt and in debt,,the employees will not assume any of that debt,,,just me. The employees risk nothing,, I risk it all.

My employees make $15 hr, but I know other less skilled jobs that cannot pay that or they will go out of business. It is wrong to think everyone should make the same wage. The cost of supplies and raw materials and other things would quickly rise as a result of the min wage increase, since it is a cost for business to be added in,,,,quickly cancelling any short term benefit of raising of min wage.

In short,, I believe "middle out" is wrong,, middle class consumers do not CREATE jobs,,,they SUPPORT them after someone with money created them.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Thanks BG. This fellow & many more like him "get it". Demand drives it all. Who creates demand? A healthy middle class with money in their pockets that want "stuff".

 

[razerface]

Thanks BG. This fellow & many more like him "get it". Demand drives it all. Who creates demand? A healthy middle class with money in their pockets that want "stuff".

That is exactly why he is wrong! They create DEMAND,,,,not jobs! They want the "stuff" ,,,, but do not create the way to "make" the stuff.

 

[begreen]

It's said locally that every Boeing job creates 10 others. That's because a worker there buys things like cars, a home, insurance, tvs, haircuts, plumbing, landscaping, furniture, etc. 200 Boeing workers are going to buy a ton more stuff and services than one CEO in spite of the CEO making the same amount as those 200 workers.
The more a worker is paid the more likely that person will upgrade their life with more things and services. That means more jobs for bakers and bankers, waitresses and welders.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Jobs are a byproduct of demand. No demand = no jobs. Like someone said simple math.

BTW engineers & other science types who are largely employees create the way to "make" stuff. Not business owners.

A business owner sees a demand & seeks to satisfy it in hopes of a profit, simple capitalism.

Just like the video stated creating a job is among the last things a business owner wants to do, it is not a goal of capitalism, rather it is done as a last resort when all non job creating methods of satisfying a demand have failed.

Really do you think I hire people to sit out on the pipelines in hope of there being something for them to do? Thereby creating jobs. Or do I respond to the demand & employ only as many people as necessary?

BTW this all goes in the ditch when robotics gets several more generations under it's belt. Then I & many others can satisfy demand while only needing a small fraction of current employees. Will I then go out & create jobs where no need for them is present? I am not a job creator! I am a demand satisfier, hopefully at a profit.

 

[razerface]

It's said locally that every Boeing job creates 10 others.

and who created Boeing,,, an hourly worker?

That old wifes tale is untrue anyway.
If it was true, 1 Boeing worker is spending enough to support 10 other people, unless they only make 1/10 of what the Boeing worker makes,,,,,,

The more a worker is paid the more likely that person will upgrade their life with more things and services.

yes, and as soon as enough workers want to buy the same object (demand),,,,,,,some rich guy will start a business to produce the object,(create jobs)

 

[ChipTam]

Ah, the trickle down effect. Just love that fairy tale. It's promoted to justify the existence of the 1%.

 

[bassJAM]

BTW this all goes in the ditch when robotics gets several more generations under it's belt. Then I & many others can satisfy demand while only needing a small fraction of current employees. Will I then go out & create jobs where no need for them is present? I am not a job creator! I am a demand satisfier, hopefully at a profit.

The place I co-oped during college had a lady complaining that the $17/hour she was making wasn't enough. It was an unskilled job where she picked up an item at the end of an assembly line and packed it in a box. She only made that much because she was able to do it very quickly, thereby allowing the whole line to speed up. The complaining became too much and she was replaced by an $80k machine that will never complain. RTI was like 2 years, so now that machine is bringing pure profit to the company. Unskilled workers seem to forget how cheaply robotics can replace their unskilled jobs. If they push too hard for an unreasonable high minimum wage, they may find themselves jobless.

 

[razerface]

Jobs are a byproduct of demand. No demand = no jobs. Like someone said simple math.

that is correct,,,but the wealthy are the ones who create the jobs to satisfy the demand!

BTW engineers & other science types who are largely employees create the way to "make" stuff. Not business owners.

really? Who created the engineers job? Who hired the engineer? Without the job, the engineer is unemployed.

A business owner sees a demand & seeks to satisfy it in hopes of a profit, simple capitalism.

you are making my point beautifully

I am not a job creator! I am a demand satisfier, hopefully at a profit.

that is a play on words,,,if you hire someone,,you created the job

 

[Frozen Canuck]

but the wealthy are the ones who create the jobs to satisfy the demand!

Majority of businesses are started by average Jane's & Joe's. Trust me the wealthy are far more interested in stock earnings & the power of compounding interest, oh & avoiding all tax, all the time, as well as having the average Jane & Joe pickup all of the tab, all of the time….don't tax my yacht, don't tax my overseas accounts or any of the many other ways the 1% avoids paying anything. Heck farming the tax codes looking for revenue, never mind tax avoidance happens on both sides of the 49th, how screwed up is that?

Who created the engineers job? Who hired the engineer? Without the job, the engineer is unemployed.

The people who demanded the "stuff" that the engineer had the skills & knowledge/creativity to make…..Someone who wanted to satisfy demand for a profit, only after they realized that the demand could not be satisfied without hiring the engineer….Or the engineer becomes self employed & satisfies that demand using their own skills. Those with skills, knowledge & creativity really have little to no need for the 1%. It's the other way around, the 1% needs these folks to maintain/improve their station in the capitalist model.

if you hire someone,,you created the job

I don't hire people unless a demand exists & only after trying to fill that demand without hiring anyone. I don't seek to hire employees, I seek to satisfy demand hopefully for a profit, if I feel there is no profit in satisfying a demand then I hire no one & abandon seeking to satisfy that particular demand. One is a byproduct (sometimes) of the other. No matter how much you try, the cart will always be best placed behind the horse, not in front.

Like I said above, demand drives it all & a healthy middle class with money in their pockets largely drives demand. The 1% already has all the stuff they can use & unless they can find a way for the rest to pay for it they won't go out & buy more stuff to "create" jobs.

 

[BrotherBart]

Who is the job creator. The pimp or the john?

 

[razerface]

Trust me the wealthy are far more interested in stock earnings & the power of compounding interest, oh & avoiding all tax,

trust me,, so are the Jane's & Joe's. It is called retirement

Those with skills, knowledge & creativity really have little to no need for the 1%.

hmmm, wonder why banks exist. Must be a demand for loans,,,so they create jobs for loan officers. I wonder if the 1% put big money in the banks to be loaned out to Jane and Joe,,,,nawwww,,,,,i bet it's under their mattress.

The 1% already has all the stuff they can use & unless they can find a way for the rest to pay for it they won't go out & buy more stuff to "create" jobs.

LOL,, why do they need someone else to pay for it? They have money!

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Wage stagnation means expendable income stagnation. If you don't see that the "gozinta" and the "gozoutta" are connected (dems enginnerin' turms), then the whole thing slowly sinks.

A related topic: The evolution of our economy seems to have been just plain ignored by a large segment of society. Too many people are hanging their hats on some amorphous thing they call "manufacturing". Nobody owes anyone else the opportunity to pull a lever for a living wage- companies start up to do a lot more than make widgets now. The idea that we are going to solve employment/wage issues with "more manufacturing" is a fantasy.

 

[razerface]

I suppose the only way to prove middle class demand DOES NOT create jobs is,,,,,,

Right now there is a large demand from middle class for more jobs,,,,,,is that working?

Who will satisfy that demand?

Someone with money.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I suppose the only way to prove middle class demand DOES NOT create jobs is,,,,,,

Right now there is a large demand from middle class for more jobs,,,,,,is that working?

 

[razerface]

Who is the job creator. The pimp or the john?

the pimp,,, the john is wanting it,,but cannot buy it till someone sells it.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Supply side economics. I didn't think there were any of you guys left

 

[razerface]

Supply side economics. I didn't think there were any of you guys left

look up at the big front office wherever you work,,,,you'll see more of us!

 

[Adios Pantalones]

look up at the big front office wherever you work,,,,you'll see more of us!

Uhhh- not at my day job.

I am 1/2 time a small business owner as well. No matter how much stuff I make, it doesn't sell more.

Don't customers see that there's more stuff to buy with their relative shrinking income? Are they too stupid to spend their money on my increasing pile of wares?

nyuck, nyuck

 

[Jags]

Who is the job creator. The pimp or the john?

 

[jharkin]

That is exactly why he is wrong! They create DEMAND,,,,not jobs! They want the "stuff" ,,,, but do not create the way to "make" the stuff.

You cant make a profit "making stuff" if there is nobody around to buy that "stuff"

 

[razerface]

You cant make a profit "making stuff" if there is nobody around to buy that "stuff"

did someone say you could?

 

[ironpony]

He did not convince me of anything. He misses the definition of "consumer" and "job creator". If someone who makes money spends it on "stuff",,,they are consumers. If you take your money and start a company, you are a "job creator".

Someone making $15 hr, does not go out and start companies. It takes more money then that,,,so if you take away that larger amount of money some people have,,,jobs will not be created. A group of hourly workers will not start a company and create jobs.

If you raise wages, the price of the product has to also be raised, so will you again raise wages? . It is all simple math,,,


I started and own my own company. I make more money then my employees, and always will. If my company goes bankrupt and in debt,,the employees will not assume any of that debt,,,just me. The employees risk nothing,, I risk it all.

My employees make $15 hr, but I know other less skilled jobs that cannot pay that or they will go out of business. It is wrong to think everyone should make the same wage. The cost of supplies and raw materials and other things would quickly rise as a result of the min wage increase, since it is a cost for business to be added in,,,,quickly cancelling any short term benefit of raising of min wage.

In short,, I believe "middle out" is wrong,, middle class consumers do not CREATE jobs,,,they SUPPORT them after someone with money created them.

my thoughts
I barely have a high school diploma
I had no money, back then
I had a drive to succeed
I now employee 28 people full time, avg 40,000+ a year
I am the employee that started the company that employees 28 people


sounds like you did the same, kinda debunks your theory of employees not starting the company, or were you the rich kid with the silver spoon?

your choice, go

 

[ironpony]

oh and if you want a good example the guy that now owns Gulfstream, was a mechanic there before he bought the company.