Jotul 300 DV IPI / Nest Thermostat question

[Rht]

Folks,

I have a new Jotul 300 Allagash with the Proflame 2/SIT valve and remote system. We use this as a primary heat source for a small cabin in the mountains. My goal is to control the stove with a Nest learning thermostat and I have mostly achieved that goal. Ideally, when I head the mountains, I'd like to pre-heat the cabin. We also use the Nest to remote monitor temperature.

The setup works like this. The Jotul/SIT system nominally has provision for manual mode and offer the ability to tie in a millivolt thermostat. The Jotul manual illustrates this option. I have employed the UK version of the Nest Learning Thermostat, which, unlike the US version, offers relay device that can handle the millivolt switching when there's a call for heat. If you are curious, the links below illustrate what I'm doing.

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http://www.scottshapiro.com/hacking-nest-uk-san-francisco-heater/

Here is the issue: When I put the stove into what I call manual mode using the proflame remote and switch the stove into T-STAT mode (I leave the stove in CPI), the Nest works like a champ. Until it doesn't.

When there's a call for heat, it fires. When target temp is reached, the burner shuts down. However, after about 24 hours or so, something happens that the main burner refuses to light on a call for heat. Pilot stays on. If I press the rocker button on the Proflame remote, the stove immediately fires and then we're back in the game.

I've run continuity checks on the Nest relay -- everything seems to check out. My wire connections seem tight and complete. When the stove is running using the Proflame remote, it's rock solid.

Obviously, this is not great when I'm 100 miles away.

My questions are these:

Does the Proflame system have a "rules" in its programming that would lead it to "time-out" if the remote is not used in a certain period of time? If so, is there a way to over rule such programming?

What else am I missing?

The retailer and other pros I've spoken with are flummoxed at the initial concept I'm attempting to achieve, that troubleshooting my specific issue has been difficult.

Thank you so much in advance.

Bob

 

[Sunypaz]

I am attempting to do the same thing with my Jotul GF 300 DV gas stove but do not have the proflame remote. Is that important to getting it to work? Have you had any more success or discovered how to keep it working without the hiccups?

Chad

Folks,

I have a new Jotul 300 Allagash with the Proflame 2/SIT valve and remote system. We use this as a primary heat source for a small cabin in the mountains. My goal is to control the stove with a Nest learning thermostat and I have mostly achieved that goal. Ideally, when I head the mountains, I'd like to pre-heat the cabin. We also use the Nest to remote monitor temperature.

The setup works like this. The Jotul/SIT system nominally has provision for manual mode and offer the ability to tie in a millivolt thermostat. The Jotul manual illustrates this option. I have employed the UK version of the Nest Learning Thermostat, which, unlike the US version, offers relay device that can handle the millivolt switching when there's a call for heat. If you are curious, the links below illustrate what I'm doing.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

http://www.scottshapiro.com/hacking-nest-uk-san-francisco-heater/

Here is the issue: When I put the stove into what I call manual mode using the proflame remote and switch the stove into T-STAT mode (I leave the stove in CPI), the Nest works like a champ. Until it doesn't.

When there's a call for heat, it fires. When target temp is reached, the burner shuts down. However, after about 24 hours or so, something happens that the main burner refuses to light on a call for heat. Pilot stays on. If I press the rocker button on the Proflame remote, the stove immediately fires and then we're back in the game.

I've run continuity checks on the Nest relay -- everything seems to check out. My wire connections seem tight and complete. When the stove is running using the Proflame remote, it's rock solid.

Obviously, this is not great when I'm 100 miles away.

My questions are these:

Does the Proflame system have a "rules" in its programming that would lead it to "time-out" if the remote is not used in a certain period of time? If so, is there a way to over rule such programming?

What else am I missing?

The retailer and other pros I've spoken with are flummoxed at the initial concept I'm attempting to achieve, that troubleshooting my specific issue has been difficult.

Thank you so much in advance.

Bob

 

[rover67]

I am having the exact same issue with out Jotul GF 400 DV IPI stove. We also have the proflame remote setup. Set it up with a relay to control the stove on the external thermostat inputs on the stove and it works great with our nest for a while, then it doesn't. Did you find a solution ever?

Thanks,
Marco

 

[wooduser]

. If I press the rocker button on the Proflame remote, the stove immediately fires and then we're back in the game.

Very likely the switch on the control has an excessive loss of millivolts across that switch.

The gas valve needs a certain amount of millivolts to have enough power to open the gas valve ----or keep it open. A poor switch can allow the millivolt loss to increase until the gas valve will no longer stay open.


Use a multimeter that measures millivolts and connect it across the switch/remote control circuits and measure the millivolts where the circuit begins at TH/TP to the gas valve connection for the main burner--- TH.

Also, measure the millivolts actually being applied to the main burner electrical connection. The specifications for the gas valve list the minimum that should be necessary to operate the main burner gas valve reliably.

 

[Sunypaz]

I am having the exact same issue with out Jotul GF 400 DV IPI stove. Set it up with a relay to control the stove on the external thermostat inputs on the stove and it works great with our nest for a while, then it doesn't. Did you find a solution ever?

Thanks,
Marco

I did find a solution and it works flawlessly. I bought a Nest from the UK through Ebay and it comes with a HeatLink that acts as both a power source and low voltage transformer. You just need a 120V power source for the Heat Link and then connect the heat link to the nest while also connecting the two thermostat wires from the stove to the heat link. I'll include some photos below. Let me know if you have any questions. Chad

 

[rover67]

awesome, thanks for the info you guys. I'll dig deeper, maybe replace my relay with a heat link or try a different relay! I bet there is too much loss across my relay as suggested above.

 

[rover67]

Well, since I already have the US spec Nest thermostat I ordered one of these. It looks to be designed for the application. Not as cheap as a homebrew setup but I like it comes all in one box and has relays rated for the low voltage use. I was going to have to box my creation anyways...

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywe...ching-Relay-w-Internal-Transformer-11013000-p

 

[Millbilly]

Neat idea but just to give you guys a heads up these are not rated to be used with a nest. Unlike a central heat unit that is generally located in a secluded room in your home, the possibility exists that a combustible could be left on or too close to your stove. Unlike you setting your tstat while in the room looking at it, the nest could become dangerous. So I'd be careful because I'm sure there could be ramifications with regards to your insurance should this cause a problem. This is information I obtained first hand from the manufacturer since I get asked about it frequently.

 

[wooduser]

! I bet there is too much loss across my relay as suggested above.

Don't bet ----measure, using a voltmeter to measure the millivolts going into a switch and coming out. Why guess when you can know?

 

[rover67]

It was more a figure of speech, but you are right i should confirm. Good call, I will measure tonight!

 

[Sir John Eh MacDonald]

Bob, you are running two thermostats in line. One on the Nest and one on the remote. This gives you four modes, three off and one on, leading to confusion.

Run the remote in thermostat mode off. You can also disable the thermostat function on the remote by holding down both the thermostat and mode buttons while installing the last battery.

 

[Sir John Eh MacDonald]

Neat idea but just to give you guys a heads up these are not rated to be used with a nest. Unlike a central heat unit that is generally located in a secluded room in your home, the possibility exists that a combustible could be left on or too close to your stove. Unlike you setting your tstat while in the room looking at it, the nest could become dangerous. So I'd be careful because I'm sure there could be ramifications with regards to your insurance should this cause a problem. This is information I obtained first hand from the manufacturer since I get asked about it frequently.

Millbilly,

The Proflame2 equipped fireplace as shipped is already capable of running in thermostat mode indefinitely. Nobody needs to be home. It would make no safety difference which thermostat activated the unit.

 

[Millbilly]

Millbilly,

The Proflame2 equipped fireplace as shipped is already capable of running in thermostat mode indefinitely. Nobody needs to be home. It would make no safety difference which thermostat activated the unit.

Correct. But you have to be give or take 25' from the unit when you set your desired temp. The other units come from the factory ready for tstats as well. I will look more into this

 

[rover67]

I hate old threads that just go to die with no resolution, so when I talked to Jotul North America today I remembered the thread and thought I'd give an update.

My most recent attempt at debugging the setup included installing a Honeywell R8845U1003 Relay Switch instead of my homebrew relay with 24v transformer. This relay switch is marketed as being intended for uses specifically such as this with the a specific relay to operate in place of a millivolt type thermostat.

Anyways, it didn't change anything.


So, after a pretty frustrating winter of continuing to "reset" the proflame with the remote by turning it on and off again I finally decided to work my way through the phones/chain of technical support available to me. First call was to my dealer. they were not helpful. Second thing I did was search for the Jotul North America Number. I found it and called them. My only option was to leave a message. I did just that and today (I called yesterday) they called back. The gentleman that I got a hold of was very helpful and hypothesized that the proflame remote still being synced to the Stove's internal board/controller was causing issues. He mentioned that the conflicting signals from the remote and external t-stat could cause problems. Anyhow, he instructed me to un-sync the remote by pressing the button on the board that as you look at the stove is at the front right, almost behind the burner switch. It's a small micro switch about the size of a pencil eraser. He instructed me to press it once and that I should hear some beeps, then press again and hear more beeps. I had to do if a few times before I heard beeps both times but after a few attempts my remote was no longer synced.

We'll see if it works. Either way I'm excited at the prospect of trying something new.

FYI I did try what was mentioned in post #11 above and it didn't work for me...

Thanks,
Marco

 

[rover67]

Welp folks, it's fixed. That was a long road.

 

[TorontoTim]

Welp folks, it's fixed. That was a long road.

I know this is from a while back, but can you confirm what you did to resolve? Did de-coupling the Jotul remote from the stove allow the Nest thermostat to control the stove reliably?

I have a Jotul 305 up at my cabin and am looking at putting a Nest on it. I'll probably go the UK Heatlink route unless you found that Honeywell product did the same thing and works just fine? Might be easier than sourcing a Nest from the UK.

 

[Byro7]

I've found that the ProFlame2 remote will always interrupt the Google Nests functions when the Nest calls for heat. You must part with your Remote completely. To do this, locate the tiny red button on the electronic control module under your gas stove. It's on the front right side. Press it a few times without holding, press over and over as if your frustrated, and it will unpair with your remote. You're good to go! You'll never miss your remote, now you can use your nest app to control your stove, or even tell your Google Home or Alexa from your couch workout lifting a finger. Enjoy!

 

[Byro7]

My Google Nest is from the US, no quarrels or special gadgets, just a $15 2pin 24v power transformer / thermostat C-Wire adapter to power the Nest.

 

[TorontoTim]

Appreciate the follow-ups on this, even if they're years apart . I just opened my cabin up for the season here in Canada and I'm going to give the Nest a try again making sure to decouple the remote control completely. Would be nice to turn up the heat remotely in advance of making the trip up here.

 

[TorontoTim]

So I have succeeded in connecting my Nest thermostat to my Jotul 305 gas stove and it has been working reliably in its remote location for the last week. I have a Nest camera trained on the thermostat and stove and have been experimenting with turning it on / off etc. It's scheduled to turn on at 5AM tomorrow morning in anticipation of me driving up there later in the day.

One trick related to the decoupling of the Jotul remote is to turn on the Nest while the light is flashing. I found that if I just decoupled the remote and then connected the Nest after, it wouldn't turn the stove on.

But enabling the Nest while the light is flashing seemed to work. Probably has nothing to do with anything, but that's what worked for me.

Switches on the Jotul are set to T-Stat and CPI, although the manual suggests it will work with IPI as well. This time of year I run the pilot continuously to reduce condensation inside the stove and chimney. I'll experiment with IPI when I'm up there for the long haul and take the time to run the wires for the thermostat to be mounted.

Right now it's a jumble of wires spilling out of the stove sitting on the floor.

 

[TorontoTim]

My Google Nest is from the US, no quarrels or special gadgets, just a $15 2pin 24v power transformer / thermostat C-Wire adapter to power the Nest.

So you didn't use a relay at all between the Nest and stove?