Jotul 500 draft problem

[ron45]

Hello to you all, I'm looking to figure out what's wrong with my Used Jotul I've been using for around a year or so. I'm to the point where I want to take the odd looking back part of the stove off to see it it's clogged. I'm not new to wood stoves, but I do not always burn the stove HOT. I use the sliding damper in the center of the ash shelf often to make a burn last longer. There is also a damper in the first section of chimney and try to use it when the big embers are present and only use it sparingly.

I try to do this when the is a large amount of larage embers in the burn chanber. I live in the high desert in New Mexico.
So I burn Juniper and Pinon... and mostly Juniper. Oak is not locally available at a price I can pay. Off Gridliving, and fixed income limit my choices. I try to burn wood I cut last year. I've had no problems till I tried to burn some of last year's wood. As an expiriment I cut up some very old oak scraps to about 8 or 9 inch lengths with good oak kindling.....

Same problem The smoke would rather go out the joints between the first two 6" chimney pipes. It also comes out around the front and side door to lesser extent. If I sneak the side door open Very Slowly the draft gets much better.

I began w/wood stoves in 1983. So I know when I'm handling un or partially seasoned wood, or sappy wood i.e, pinon.

Will it do any good to open up the back [ where the first chimney section leaves the stove?

Sorry this got long folks.

And thank you for your time and experience.

Ron

 

[Sawset]

The smoke would rather go out the joints between the first two 6" chimney pipes. It also comes out around the front and side door to lesser extent. If I sneak the side door open Very Slowly the draft gets much better.

Similar symptoms here when the chimney cap screen was plugged. Brushed the flue, and got the screen opened up, no problems before or since.

 

[Valhalla]

Similar symptoms here when the chimney cap screen was plugged. Brushed the flue, and got the screen opened up, no problems before or since.

I always use a Sooteater on my Jotul 500 from below twice a year. It works great to clean the 20 foot flue. Keep it clean and the secondary air control works normally.

 

[webby3650]

Check the cap and the flue first. Have you swept the ash and creosote off of the baffle and flue collar? If not, I bet if you pulled the pipe out of the flue collar you’ll find it’s clogged there.

 

[ron45]

I always use a Sooteater on my Jotul 500 from below twice a year. It works great to clean the 20 foot flue. Keep it clean and the secondary air control works normally.

Hi Valhala, thanks for the reply. I'll check out

I always use a Sooteater on my Jotul 500 from below twice a year. It works great to clean the 20 foot flue. Keep it clean and the secondary air control works normally.

Thanks I'll Check out the Soot Eater.

Check the cap and the flue first. Have you swept the ash and creosote off of the baffle and flue collar? If not, I bet if you pulled the pipe out of the flue collar you’ll find it’s clogged there.

This is on my list for today.First.... I have to figure out a way to support the flue pipe. It leaves the back of the flue collar at a 45 degree angle and it's rather long.
I know this is not ideal for many reasons, but thats how I had to do it to get to the triple wall penetration.

I can probably cut some blocks to support it right at the flue collar. It looks pretty substantial.

Also, I'm struggling with the fasteners used to hold that tube assembly to the underside of the stove top. I'm assuming some kind of metric bolts but I haven't found the right tool yet. The tubes could be clogged up also.
I can do much till I remove the four bolts.

P.S. I should have mentioned in my first post..... I've been diagnosed with Vascular Dementia. 10% of the people who have triple bybass procedures begin to show sines of this after four or more years.

So far so good, my short term memory is pretty bad and and it's hard to do math sometimes. And it's possible one could see some strange typing or thought organization. Just to keep things interesting..... I have Dyslexia.

But it could be lots worse. If I can get past this stove thing that will be a big Hot Damn !

`Hope you guys know how much you have been already!
Ron

 

[ron45]

Check the cap and the flue first. Have you swept the ash and creosote off of the baffle and flue collar? If not, I bet if you pulled the pipe out of the flue collar you’ll find it’s clogged there.

This is one the first things I'll do IF I can get the fasteners out of the bottom of the stove top.

Ron

 

[webby3650]

If you’ve got a long funky horizontal run off the stovetop then I bet it’s clogged up.

 

[begreen]

Ron, can you post some pictures of the whole flue system before you get started? Maybe we can make some suggestions to make this easier.

 

[ron45]

Hi Valhala, thanks for the reply. I'll check out

Thanks I'll Check out the Soot Eater.

This is on my list for today.First.... I have to figure out a way to support the flue pipe. It leaves the back of the flue collar at a 45 degree angle and it's rather long.
I know this is not ideal for many reasons, but thats how I had to do it to get to the triple wall penetration.

I can probably cut some blocks to support it right at the flue collar. It looks pretty substantial.

Also, I'm struggling with the fasteners used to hold that tube assembly to the underside of the stove top. I'm assuming some kind of metric bolts but I haven't found the right tool yet. The tubes could be clogged up also.
I can do much till I remove the four bolts.

P.S. I should have mentioned in my first post..... I've been diagnosed with Vascular Dementia. 10% of the people who have triple bybass procedures begin to show sines of this after four or more years.

So far so good, my short term memory is pretty bad and and it's hard to do math sometimes. And it's possible one could see some strange typing or thought organization. Just to keep things interesting..... I have Dyslexia.

But it could be lots worse. If I can get past this stove thing that will be a big Hot Damn !

`Hope you guys know how much help you have been already!
Ron

Sorry for all the traffic, I don't always organize my thoughts well.... How flexible are the white nylon rods that come with the Soot Eater. And do they really expect us to buy another drill we don't need?
I have two 45's in my flue run and it's nearly 11 feet.

Ron

Ron, can you post some pictures of the whole flue system before you get started? Maybe we can make some suggestions to make this easier.

I'll see what I can come up with,

 

[ron45]

Ron, can you post some pictures of the whole flue system before you get started? Maybe we can make some suggestions to make this easier.

I apologize for the clunky computer chops. I took about a half hour for me to figure out/remember how to attach files or for that matter get them into my computer to begin with. I've been moving away from the computer because there is so much frustration to deal with concerning passwords and all the changes in the software I can't begin to keep up with.
Thank you all for your patience in this matter.
Ron
ps I hope the pics made it into this thread

 

[webby3650]

That is one crazy pipe run!

 

[bholler]

I am 90% sure your problem is that long sideways run of pipe. I also see lots of potentially dangerous clearance issues

 

[ron45]

Hi Valhala, thanks for the reply. I'll check out

Thanks I'll Check out the Soot Eater.

This is on my list for today.First.... I have to figure out a way to support the flue pipe. It leaves the back of the flue collar at a 45 degree angle and it's rather long.
I know this is not ideal for many reasons, but thats how I had to do it to get to the triple wall penetration.

I can probably cut some blocks to support it right at the flue collar. It looks pretty substantial.

Also, I'm struggling with the fasteners used to hold that tube assembly to the underside of the stove top. I'm assuming some kind of metric bolts but I haven't found the right tool yet. The tubes could be clogged up also.
I can do much till I remove the four bolts.

P.S. I should have mentioned in my first post..... I've been diagnosed with Vascular Dementia. 10% of the people who have triple bybass procedures begin to show sines of this after four or more years.

So far so good, my short term memory is pretty bad and and it's hard to do math sometimes. And it's possible one could see some strange typing or thought organization. Just to keep things interesting..... I have Dyslexia.

But it could be lots worse. If I can get past this stove thing that will be a big Hot Damn !

`Hope you guys know how much help you have been already!
Ron

Sorry for all the traffic, I don't always organize my thoughts well.... How flexible are the white nylon rods that come with the Soot Eater. And do they really expect us to buy another drill we don't need?
I have two 45's in my flue run and it's nearly 11 feet.

Ron

Ron, can you post some pictures of the whole flue system before you get started? Maybe we can make some suggestions to make this easier.

I'll see what I can come up with,

That is one crazy pipe run!

It's a function of existing opportunities. The 400 plus pound stove was not going to move again. Same the the penetration and the triple wall. The triple wall was isolated from any near by wood with fiber Kiln insulation, good for up to 5K or better according to the commercial potery guy I got it from about 30 years ago.

My roof is flat with a parapet, bad idea. But I had professional help installing the membrane which is still keeping me and my two cats dry. Why tempt fate.
We are alone up here for quite some time now and I get company often enough to keep me going to the next chore. But I'm getting very lazy these days.

If the people from`Better Homes Than Gardens' ever show up they'll probably try to get me commited

Ron

 

[bholler]

Sorry for all the traffic, I don't always organize my thoughts well.... How flexible are the white nylon rods that come with the Soot Eater. And do they really expect us to buy another drill we don't need?
I have two 45's in my flue run and it's nearly 11 feet.

Ron

I'll see what I can come up with,

It's a function of existing opportunities. The 400 plus pound stove was not going to move again. Same the the penetration and the triple wall. The triple wall was isolated from any near by wood with fiber Kiln insulation, good for up to 5K or better according to the commercial potery guy I got it from about 30 years ago.

My roof is flat with a parapet, bad idea. But I had professional help installing the membrane which is still keeping me and my two cats dry. Why tempt fate.
We are alone up here for quite some time now and I get company often enough to keep me going to the next chore. But I'm getting very lazy these days.

If the people from`Better Homes Than Gardens' ever show up they'll probably try to get me commited

Ron

Is that 11' total including that long 45 degree run?

 

[semipro]

@ron45 it may help to keep in mind that the flue and the suction it creates when heated is what drives the stove (i.e. the stack effect). The stove does not push smoke up the chimney. It operates under a slight vacuum created by the flue. If you have smoke leaking out of the flue joints you either have a restriction above or a poorly operating flue that is not creating enough draft. I suspect the latter.

And, like @bholler i'd bet that horizontal section is the problem. Being horizontal it provides no draft while adding restriction - a bad combination.

 

[Woody Stover]

Being horizontal it provides no draft while adding restriction - a bad combination.

Plus, creosote will fall and clog the first 45 under the roof.

 

[begreen]

If the stove and chimney locations are not movable then the main thing that could be improved would be to switch out the stovepipe to double-wall stovepipe. That will keep the flue gases hotter which will improve draft and keep the pipe cleaner.

 

[Woody Stover]

I have two 45's in my flue run and it's nearly 11 feet

You say the stove has been in there a year...when was the last time the chimney was swept?
How far out of the roof does the chimney extend? If you can get on the roof with a shop vac and drop a hose down the flue, I bet a bunch of creosote has fallen to the first elbow, and that is where the clog is.
Or you can separate it where the vertical pipe meets the top elbow and clean it out. You could wrap some baling wire around the pipe to support the long section, then wrap it around a nail driven into a roof beam. Actually, you could clean the entire pipe pretty well taking off that top elbow. You can get by with just a chimney brush and a rod or two, if you don't wanna buy a SootEater.
You would remove the elbow, tape a plastic bag securely to the bottom of the vertical pipe, then go on the roof with the chimney brush and a rod, and brush down into the plastic bag. Then brush the other section, from the first elbow to the second.
Then, as webby said, pull the pipe out of the flue collar and clean off the top of the baffle..a big pile there could block your draft.

As begreen mentioned, if you can move the stove over closer to where the pipe exits the roof, the rest of the pipe will go more straight up, and it will draft a lot better than the gradual slope that you have now..

Another question, what is that stone "bookcase" next to the stove? I thought it was a fireplace at first but I don't see a chimney above it..?
And what is that arched brick opening in the wall behind the "bookcase," some kind of old cooking alcove or something?

By the way, my sister lives in Socorro. Last time I visited, we went to a couple places east of I-25, out there a good ways...we mighta drove right past your place! There's another guy on here that lives north of Albuque, around Jemez.

 

[ron45]

Is that 11' total including that long 45 degree run?

There is a 3' section out of the back of the stove. There is a 5' section coming out of the triple wall. It's kind of difficult to get it real accurate if there isn't someone around to manage one of the tape ends.

What I'd like to know more about is the bolts or whatever they are that hold the tube assy to the btm of the stove top.
`Soon as I can get someone up here to help support the chimney I can get a look into the back of the stove.... I hope. I live by my self and for the next few days my road is 4WD only and quite sloppy till it dries out some. We got about 10 inches more than a week ago but it's been cold so the melt water is soaking much of my mile and a half access road.

Ron

 

[bholler]

There is a 3' section out of the back of the stove. There is a 5' section coming out of the triple wall. It's kind of difficult to get it real accurate if there isn't someone around to manage one of the tape ends.

What I'd like to know more about is the bolts or whatever they are that hold the tube assy to the btm of the stove top.
`Soon as I can get someone up here to help support the chimney I can get a look into the back of the stove.... I hope. I live by my self and for the next few days my road is 4WD only and quite sloppy till it dries out some. We got about 10 inches more than a week ago but it's been cold so the melt water is soaking much of my mile and a half access road.

Ron

The stove isn't your problem your chimney is to short and you have to long of a horizontal run. Don't screw with a perfectly good stove move it under the chimney

 

[semipro]

What I'd like to know more about is the bolts or whatever they are that hold the tube assy to the btm of the stove top.

Is this so you can disconnect the flue pipe for inspection or whatever?
If you can get that connection loose you may be able to tap on your pipe to see what comes out the bottom.

 

[ron45]

Is this so you can disconnect the flue pipe for inspection or whatever?
If you can get that connection loose you may be able to tap on your pipe to see what comes out the bottom.

Hi, yes, I'd like to get a look inside that area behind the stove where the flue exits. Sorry I don't remember the name of that part of the stove. And also the assembly under the top of the stove. Checking the chimney cap the other day there are virtually no deposits there. There are the beginnings of tiny little flakes. I intend to tape a bag around the bottom of the flue to do as you suggest.

Can someone please give me an idea of how flexible the nylon rods are that come with the Soot Arester? I'd Like to know if those rods will go thru a 45 degree section of pipe.

Thank you to all of you for your advise.

Ron

 

[firefighterjake]

What I would do first and foremost.

1) Check and clean the chimney and flue pipe if needed.
2) Remove the top oval plate and check to see if any fly ash has clogged up the area where the stove exit the flue
3) Consider re-working the flue pipe at some point

There really should be no reason to strip down the stove, short of moving the oval plate at the top . . . or if you really want to go crazy you can remove the entire top. If memory serves me right there are two 10 mm nuts holding down the oval plate . . . a few other 10 mm nuts holding down the entire top.

 

[webby3650]

If memory serves me right there are two 10 mm nuts holding down the oval plate

That’s correct. The bolts don’t need to come all the way out either, just loosen them and move the keepers around out of the way.

 

[semipro]

If memory serves me right there are two 10 mm nuts holding down the oval plate . . . a few other 10 mm nuts holding down the entire top.

This is correct. Also, IIRC you can remove on the front nut/bolt on the oval plate and then slide the plate forward to remove it without having to remove the rear nut/bolt though you may need to loosen it a bit.

Edit: apparently I was typing this during Webby3650's response. His response is more accurate.