Jotul F 500 for my Basement?

[CSPStopThat]

First, let me just say thanks in advance to the moderators and all the contributors to this forum. This site and forum is probably the best resource.

So I have, the same basic question: Advice on a New Stove. With a couple of additional questions.

I started my research alittle over two years ago when I was designing my house. After living in it for 11 months I am just getting around to actually purchasing a stove and my research has been more intense and like every newbie my head is hurting with information overload. So in the last couple weeks I have visited several dealers. The brands of stoves that are in the running are the Jotul F 500, Lopi Liberty (or perhaps smaller) and from this forum the Pacific Summit. I have settled on the Jotul F 500 primarily from an aesthetic perspective. It is going to be the focul point when you first walk downstairs and overall So basically, is this a good choice from an operational stove for my basement? With these considerations:

I live in the Midwest
Average Temps (High) in cold months is 28-58 degrees F.
Average Temps (Low) in cold months is 14-40 degree F.
My house is new and very tight and well insulated (6 inch insulated walls, 12 inch batt, 38 inch blown in attic), Mostly Brick
Temp in basement is typically 64 degree and furnace never even turns on
Basement is unfinished at ~2100 Sq Feet. The picture has a "design" but it is not finished right now. I expect it to be 1200-1600 sq ft of finished living space.
The chimney (brick) is a metal (6 inch) and is about 38 feet long up the back of the house
It (the chimney) has two 90 degree turns and a couple of 30 degrees been
This wood stove would not be a 24/7 stove (although from reading this forum it sounds like you get hooked and use it more than you think). Supplemental heat for the basement and I viewing of the fire is what we want.

The advice I got from a dealer is that the Lopi Liberty is easier to operate (gets hot quick and easy damper control) and will prime the heat the flue better. That got me questioning my Jotul decision. Is the Jotul 500 that much harder to tame? For a newbie? Even if it is just going to be used when we are downstairs or at night? The price I got for the Jotul and Lopi Liberty is the same. The dealer indicated that the Jotul requires more maintenance but I cannot validate claim either.

Here are my other questions:
I have had my wood seasoning since last April (Mostly Cherry) is that long enough? Not sure if I should buy wood for this season.
I have a negative air flow mechanism on my furnace. I have read about outside air kits here. Would I need it?
Can I install the stove myself? Besides the weight of the darn thing the the installation looks pretty straight forward.
Aside: I really like the side loading feature of the Jotul. Is that as important as I am perceiving it?

Any other newbie advice would be appreciated.

 

[firefighterjake]

First, let me just say thanks in advance to the moderators and all the contributors to this forum. This site and forum is probably the best resource. I agree . . . I learned . . . and continue to learn a lot from veterans and newbies alike.

So I have, the same basic question: Advice on a New Stove. With a couple of additional questions.

I started my research alittle over two years ago when I was designing my house. After living in it for 11 months I am just getting around to actually purchasing a stove and my research has been more intense and like every newbie my head is hurting with information overload. Ah yes, a common symptom . . . especially if you're like most of us and do all the research -- I mean there is the soapstone vs. cast iron vs. steel debate, the cat or non-cat debate, Simpson vs. Excel debate and so on and so forth. So in the last couple weeks I have visited several dealers. The brands of stoves that are in the running are the Jotul F 500, Lopi Liberty (or perhaps smaller) and from this forum the Pacific Summit. All excellent stove choices in my opinion. I have settled on the Jotul F 500 primarily from an aesthetic perspective. It is going to be the focal point when you first walk downstairs and overall So basically, is this a good choice from an operational stove for my basement? I'm a bit biased. I like the Oslo for its looks and more importantly its performance. A word to the wise though . . . go with the blue black enamel finish . . . one of the most common Oslo buyer remorse issues (myself included.) With these considerations:

I live in the Midwest
Average Temps (High) in cold months is 28-58 degrees F.
Average Temps (Low) in cold months is 14-40 degree F.
My house is new and very tight and well insulated (6 inch insulated walls, 12 inch batt, 38 inch blown in attic), Mostly Brick
Temp in basement is typically 64 degree and furnace never even turns on
Basement is unfinished at ~2100 Sq Feet. The picture has a "design" but it is not finished right now. I expect it to be 1200-1600 sq ft of finished living space. The Oslo could handle 1200-1600 square feet . . . assuming the basement is or will be insulated and finished. I do think the Oslo would not be able to handle all 2100 square feet . . . or at least it would tax it.The chimney (brick) is a metal (6 inch) and is about 38 feet long up the back of the house
It (the chimney) has two 90 degree turns and a couple of 30 degrees been Usually fewer bends is better for draft . . . then again a 38 foot long chimney is pretty darned long. Normally I think dampers are not necessary with new stoves . . . in this case . . . you might consider a damper.
This wood stove would not be a 24/7 stove (although from reading this forum it sounds like you get hooked and use it more than you think). Supplemental heat for the basement and I viewing of the fire is what we want.

The advice I got from a dealer is that the Lopi Liberty is easier to operate (gets hot quick and easy damper control) and will prime the heat the flue better. That got me questioning my Jotul decision. Is the Jotul 500 that much harder to tame? The Oslo is a very easy and forgiving stove. No worries. Like any EPA stove it likes well seasoned wood. For a newbie? Even if it is just going to be used when we are downstairs or at night? The price I got for the Jotul and Lopi Liberty is the same. The dealer indicated that the Jotul requires more maintenance but I cannot validate claim either.

Here are my other questions:
I have had my wood seasoning since last April (Mostly Cherry) is that long enough? Cherry seasons relatively fast . . . if by "seasoned" you mean this is when you cut, split and stacked the wood . . . my answer would be maybe . . . the only real way to tell would be with a moisture meter or burn a piece or two in the stove. Not sure if I should buy wood for this season.
I have a negative air flow mechanism on my furnace. I have read about outside air kits here. Would I need it? Hmmm . . . not sure. Perhaps, especially with a well insulated and tight house.Can I install the stove myself? Maybe . . . installs are relatively easy if you're good with tools, but sometimes the insurance company will require a professional install (as in my case.) Besides the weight of the darn thing the the installation looks pretty straight forward.
Aside: I really like the side loading feature of the Jotul. Is that as important as I am perceiving it? For some folks the answer would be yes . . . they love the side loading feature. Other folks would say no, it's not a big deal . . . it really depends on folks and what they're used to or like . . . some folks say the only stove for them would be a top loader.
Any other newbie advice would be appreciated. Yes . . . if you have questions about woodstoves you're in the right place so ask away.

 

[begreen]

This is a big area in a big house. Assuming that a lot of heat will travel up the large staircase, I'd be looking at a 3 cu ft stove here. If cast iron look is desired then my choices would be a Jotul F600 (agree that the blue-black enamel is a great finish), a Quadrafire Isle Royale, a Pacific Energy Alderlea T6 or perhaps a Hearthstone Mansfield? The Alderlea may be the easiest stove to operate with just a single door and air control.

As for the design, if this is going to be a freestanding stove, lose the bump out and bring the stove into the room on a nice hearth. That will eliminate alcove issues and will help the stove heat the room a bit better.

 

[CSPStopThat]

Thanks for the reply.

I will look into those larger stoves. Somewhere I read that most specs that the manufacturer touts in terms of square footage, burn time, etc. are high. The advice, was to take 2/3 of those specs and that is more realistic. Is that consistent with your opinion?

Re: "Normally I think dampers are not necessary with new stoves . . . in this case . . . you might consider a damper."

Jake, where do I install that damper on the horizontal run or the vertical run of the stove pipe? Is there a specific brand or type of damper that I should be searching for?

Again thanks for your comments and replies.

 

[begreen]

I ignore specs for the most part. The sq ftg heated varies too much with the installation location, house tightness, insulation and glass area, wood burned, wood quality, owner experience, etc. Firebox size and efficiency are better guides to the potential of the stove.

I agree with the concern about the flue damper. That is a tall stack. However, seeing this is a basement install in a tight house, it may need a stiff draft. And not one from the nearby bar. :coolsmile:

 

[firefighterjake]

Yes . . . definitely take the specs given with a grain of salt. As BeGreen mentioned the figures mentioned in the brochures do not take into account your home's insulation, the climate, etc.

As for the flue . . . usually mounted on the vertical portion of the chimney. However, that said, what I would do is install the stove first if you are bound, set and determined to have a basement install and see how well it drafts . . . if there is too much draft you should be able to put in a damper relatively easy after the fact.

 

[CSPStopThat]

BeGreen, thanks for the stove recs. it will probably slow down my decision a bit because I need to deliberate more. but I feel like I cannot make a bad choice right now. all great stoves from what I read.

my mistake now is that I had the builder prep the area. will most like have some drywall repair to install the damper. last newbie question: how will I know I need a damper? too quick of burn? stove not getting hot?

ok I lied I have another question: do you use the stove as a cooktop? why would I want the retartactable shelves on the pe or quadrafire. seems like a non-differentiator for my use.

jotul blue-black enamel. thanks for letting me learn from your regret. I think it looks great.

take care. I found a couple dealers for the quadrafire and the isle royal I will be visiting over the next week. I will probably be back with more questions.

regards-

posted from my Phone

 

[begreen]

Not sure why the drywall change at this point to accommodate a flue damper. If you can post a photo of the actual stove area that would help. We also may be able to spot other issues.

So far we haven't done a lot of cooking on the stove, but that's because my wife loves her kitchen. Some folks cook on their stoves and some do not. Some dry out their wet mittens or raise bread dough on side trivets.

 

[firefighterjake]

BeGreen, thanks for the stove recs. it will probably slow down my decision a bit because I need to deliberate more. but I feel like I cannot make a bad choice right now. all great stoves from what I read.

my mistake now is that I had the builder prep the area. will most like have some drywall repair to install the damper. last newbie question: how will I know I need a damper? too quick of burn? stove not getting hot?

ok I lied I have another question: do you use the stove as a cooktop? why would I want the retartactable shelves on the pe or quadrafire. seems like a non-differentiator for my use.

jotul blue-black enamel. thanks for letting me learn from your regret. I think it looks great.

take care. I found a couple dealers for the quadrafire and the isle royal I will be visiting over the next week. I will probably be back with more questions.

regards-

posted from my Phone

Well I'm not BeGreen . . . but I figured I would jump in here with some comments and questions.

I'm curious as well . . . why the need to have the drywall repaired with the installation of a damper. Typically, dampers are installed on exposed pipe. . . .

I suspect the decision to use a damper or not will be based on how fast the fire burns . . . if it seems as though the burn time is way too short (and you can ask folks here for their opinions on what would be too short, their definition of burn time, etc.) then you might need a damper.

Cooking . . . lots of folks here cook in or on their stove . . . I haven't yet.

 

[CSPStopThat]

Pic of Area Right Now.

I do not have direct access to the veritcal pipe. So My comment was I am going to get the stove, run it and determine if I need a damper.

If I do I will make the modification ("drywall repair") then get the stone/tile/mantel for the hearth.

Hope this helps.

 

[begreen]

It looks like there will be room for a damper on the vertical section of pipe off the stove. I don't see a need for any drywall alteration.

 

[CSPStopThat]

Got ya. Thanks for all your help. I thought the damper would be in the vertical pipe in the chimney. just put it on the vertical stove pipe.

K. back to checking out stove. Have a great weekend.

 

[cycloxer]

I'd go with at least an F 500 Oslo for that location. The stove will be well positioned so it will throw a lot of heat. You have a lot of space for a good sized stove, so definitely take advantage of that. Also, you have good access for a side loader stove so make sure you keep that in mind when comparing other stoves.

 

[firefighterjake]

Pic of Area Right Now.

I do not have direct access to the veritcal pipe. So My comment was I am going to get the stove, run it and determine if I need a damper.

If I do I will make the modification ("drywall repair") then get the stone/tile/mantel for the hearth.

Hope this helps.

Yup . . . you got it figured out right . . . damper is on the stove pipe inside the house, not on the "chimney" itself so to speak.

Incidentally, I can't quite make it out . . . but is that a partial chalk outline of a crime scene body shown in the second photo?

 

[CSPStopThat]

Nice. It is a Vacuum cord not a police chalk line. I think the only chalk line right now is around my head because I am brain dead. Who knew there was this much to learn about stoves, wood, etc.

-------
No Wood Stove - yet just an
8lb Splitting Maul

 

[firefighterjake]

Nice. It is a Vacuum cord not a police chalk line. I think the only chalk line right now is around my head because I am brain dead. Who knew there was this much to learn about stoves, wood, etc.

-------
No Wood Stove - yet just an
8lb Splitting Maul

Don't worry about the brain . . . you're in the right place to ask questions and learn about woodstoves.