Jotul, PE, or Morso?

[5thhorseman]

Winter is slowly approaching and today for the first time I thought about turning on the heat when I found my fingers a bit too cold and stiff for writing. I have been researching for a while and really struggled to find the right stove for us, mainly because I really detest many of the stove designs out there. You know the ones that are made to look like furniture, have arches in their design, or just look like something my grandmother would have loved. Don't mind the modern ones so much except they look like tin cans. The old Rais Classic 106 really intrigued me, but I digress.

My first stove was a Morso Squirrel, which I absolutely loved because of the simple look, the squirrel motif on the side, but most of all the industrial look it had, with the two spinning dials for air control prominently displayed on the door.

I now live in a larger house (~2500 sq. ft.) and although I don't expect to heat more than 1500 of it, I do need something a bit bigger. Besides, my Morso isn't legal over here in Canada, but that's another story. The main problem is finding something I like. I'll buy something expensive if I really like it, but if I can't I'll just get something cheap. So my list right now is very diverse:

Jotul F118CB Black Bear
Pacific Energy True North
Morso 2110

So far I haven't been able to see a Morso in a store here. Seems hardly anyone sells Morso stoves around here anymore. Besides, it's very pricy at $3200+ (much more than in the US).

Between the remaining two I think the PE TN can do the job, and though it's a bit plain Jane I do like the basic look of the model with legs rather than pedestal.

The Jotul reminds me so much of my Morso Squirrel that I am tempted. I need to check whether it will fit my space (maybe I need to place it lengthwise against the wall), but does in real life (not BTU ratings), does it have the same output as the PE?

Sorry for the long post, but I've been too much in my thoughts for a while

 

[begreen]

Of the chosen stoves I think the TN19 will have the longest burn times, but why not look at 3 cu ft stoves? Is the area being heated closed off from the rest of the house?

 

[BrowningBAR]

I think you are under sizing your needs unless, like be green said, you are closing off a good portion of the house.

 

[5thhorseman]

Of the chosen stoves I think the TN19 will have the longest burn times, but why not look at 3 cu ft stoves? Is the area being heated closed off from the rest of the house?

Thanks for the comment re the burn times. I thought the same and mentioned it to my wife, who will be the one loading the stove most of the time. It's definitely a consideration.

Any thoughts on a good 3 cu. ft stove that might appeal to me?

Fyi, my house is a split-level, with the kitchen, dining, and living room on the middle level, and bedrooms upstairs. The stove would be at one end of the house in a rec room on the bottom level, connected to the (currently unheated) kitchen up an open stairway of three steps. There is another doorway to a hall that runs the length of the house on the bottom level, connected to another wide stairway to the foyer and living room.

Essentially I'm relying on heat to slowly filter throught the house, but because of the layout I don't think it will work too well, which is why I said 1500 sq. ft. max. I am wary of buying a larger stove and overheating the rec room.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Thanks for the comment re the burn times. I thought the same and mentioned it to my wife, who will be the one loading the stove most of the time. It's definitely a consideration.

Any thoughts on a good 3 cu. ft stove that might appeal to me?

Fyi, my house is a split-level, with the kitchen, dining, and living room on the middle level, and bedrooms upstairs. The stove would be at one end of the house in a rec room on the bottom level, connected to the (currently unheated) kitchen up an open stairway of three steps. There is another doorway to a hall that runs the length of the house on the bottom level, connected to another wide stairway to the foyer and living room.

Essentially I'm relying on heat to slowly filter throught the house, but because of the layout I don't think it will work too well, which is why I said 1500 sq. ft. max. I am wary of buying a larger stove and overheating the rec room.

Stoves that you might want to consider in the 3 cu ft range:

PE Summit (3 cu ft)

PE T6 (3 cu ft)

Jotul Firelight (3 cu ft)

Woodstock Progress Hybrid (2.75 cu ft stove, it has a lot of mass and size, so it may work. it is a newer stove and it's performance is undefined at this point)

VC Defiant (3.2 cu ft, it is a newer stove and it's performance is undefined at this point)

Englander 30NC (3.5 cu ft)

Lopi Liberty (3.1 cu ft)

Lopi Cape Cod (3 cu ft. it is a new stove that has just been released to the market and it's performance is undefined at this point)

Quadrafire Isle Royal (3 cu ft)

Hearthstone Mansfield (3.2 cu ft)

There are several other stoves in the 3 cu ft range like Osburn and Napoleon, to name a few, but this is a starting point, at least.

 

[5thhorseman]

Okay, thanks for that! Will check them out.

 

[5thhorseman]

Decision made! Will be going for the PE Summit Classic, with legs! Looks like a beauty of a stove, plenty big, and that EBT mechanism I read about on (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hoebt.htm) looks pretty slick. Nothing but good reviews for this one, and I think the wife will be pleased that she doesn't have to load it as often as with a smaller stove, plus relighting in the morning should hopefully be a breeze too. It's also nice to be able to buy from a local manufacturer.

Now, to find a good deal. Checked two places and the price is identical ... CAD 2730 before the $300 rebate that PE are currently offering. Will check a third shop next week ... just wondering how much haggling can actually be done. Any idea how much margin dealers make on these stoves.

 

[BrowningBAR]

just wondering how much haggling can actually be done. Any idea how much margin dealers make on these stoves.

Not much, from what I understand. Sometimes I see here people getting deals on showroom models that are a years or more old. But, for the most part, it's not like car shopping. Usually not much wiggle room from the sticker price from what I have read here.

I've bought 5 of my stoves used from private sellers and the new stove I bought was online which is a little different and not really applicable in regards to the Summit.

 

[begreen]

At this time of year finding a bargain is rare. Dealers only have a few months to make top dollar and now is it. After January prices get more flexible and by April many are trying to clear out remaining inventory.

 

[5thhorseman]

Went to take a last look before buying. Although I'd seen the Summit Classic before, I wasn't seriously considering it at the time, so didn't look at it that closely. For me this stove is a choice of function over form, but I still need to be okay with the looks.

Anyways, the shop owner mentioned that some customers complained that that the porcelain steel jacket reduced the radiant heat, to the extent that some of them were removing the jacket from the stove to improve it. Wondering if anyone has a similar experience.

Also, I noticed that the ash system is an option !? Is it worth it, or do you just shovel the ash straight out of the stove?

 

[begreen]

If someone is removing the jacket they didn't understand their heating needs and/or were sold the wrong stove. There is a place and need for both convective and radiant stoves in the market. The ash removal system is optional on the Summit (pedestal) and standard on the Summit Classic and Alderlea T6. Personally, I don't use it and prefer to shovel right out of the stove. It has a nice deep firebox so this is not a big deal for me.

 

[5thhorseman]

Thanks! Although I had a rough idea of the difference between radiant and convective heat, chimneysweepsonline crystallised it for me. For my needs convective is probably the best choice, since I am trying to move heat out of that room (which is not too large and I'd still like to be comfortable in it), and because one of the main entryways is only six feet from the stove (I don't want to roast my visitors on entry!).

 

[begreen]

If the room gets too warm you can temper it by using a fan outside of the room blowing cooler house air into the room. This will greatly assist heat convection to the rest of the house.

For more even heat in the house put a table or box fan outside the room (need a floorplan to say where), placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove. Run it on low speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the fan location temp after about 30 minutes running.

 

[5thhorseman]

Anyone know how strong the radiant heat is on a Summit, i.e. when you really open 'er up, how close can you (comfortably) stand to the stove?

 

[Wood Duck]

Why not look at a Blaze King? You said you didn't want anything pretty and it has great, long burn times.

 

[5thhorseman]

He he, yeah, those Blaze Kings are pretty unique. That slightly angled front window makes the firebox look cavernous!

 

[weatherguy]

My friend has a PE Summit, really throws some serious heat, he heats 2500sf two story home no problem, yeah, the room with the stove is warm but didnt blow me away, as BG says the fan will move air around.

 

[begreen]

Anyone know how strong the radiant heat is on a Summit, i.e. when you really open 'er up, how close can you (comfortably) stand to the stove?

Yes, the Summit is jacketed. It will radiate strongly from the front and a lot of heat will be convecting off the stove, but the side jackets keep it quite comfortable on the sides. It's a good heater and you will get a nice fire view instead of a dull glow thru blackened glass .

 

[Mr. Kelly]

My 4 year old daughter and I sit right against the hearth of our Summit and play games all winter long! During a slow long burn, the room our stove is in, which is a medium-sized room, longer but narrow, gets in the high 70s, low 80s. No one complains! In fact, most of us gravitate toward the stove whenever we're home.

Our house is an older house, with plenty of leakage, so we have to take that into consideration. It is a 250 yr. old saltbox farmhouse with s somewhat conventional "circular" floor plan. The Summit heats most of the two floors comfortably, minus the two add-on rooms, which have their own zones off of our oil-fired boiler. Upstairs, it's chilly at night, but above 60 degrees. Works for us!

 

[Ashful]

I'd second the Blaze King, if you're looking for function over form, and a less ornate stove. They set the bar on long burn times, if you can stand to look at them.

Reading your first post, I was going to suggest Buck, and to a lesser degree Appalachian and Sierra... all less fancy looking catalyst stoves. If you want long burn times, and low and steady heat output, a catalyst stove will typically outperform a non-cat. Trouble with the cat stoves, for most folks, is that they're mostly firebrick lined steel boxes. There aren't many "pretty" cat stoves on the market today.