Keystone flue collar

[Russ1053]

Hi folks, a quick question. I'm in the process of installing a new Keystone stove. I noticed that the cast iron flue collar has only two screw holes tapped into it to secure, in my case, the 7" to 6" reducer. This seems to allow for a fair bit of play (side to side rocking, etc) especially when the weight of the double-wall pipe sections are added. I called Woodstock about it, specifically whether or not I should tap one or two more screw holes into the flue for more stability. They said that its not really necessary. Wondering if any other Keystone owners had come up against this and whether or not you left the flue collar as is or added one or two additional screw holes. Thanks much.

Russ Waldron

 

[DAKSY]

Generally speaking, you don't need to fasten the connector pipe at that location. If you secure all the pipe above it, it's not gonna go anywhere, without moving the stove. Most installs will include an adjustable (slip) section somewhere in the system & that only needs to be screwed together in the middle.

 

[Highbeam]

Are you running vertical with your double wall? If so, omit the screws at the flue. Note also that you can't screw the double wall into the ceiling support box if you have one. The only screws I can install are the ones that hold the sections together and the screws to hole the slip joint open.

 

[Russ1053]

Generally speaking, you don't need to fasten the connector pipe at that location. If you secure all the pipe above it, it's not gonna go anywhere, without moving the stove. Most installs will include an adjustable (slip) section somewhere in the system & that only needs to be screwed together in the middle.

Thanks Bob. I'd rather not drill any more holes than necessary. I'm using the Ventis stove pipe and Class A chimney from Olympia. I have a single wall 7" to 6" reducer at the collar with a vertical 12" double wall section to a 45 directly above. I then have a telescoping middle section pitching up to a 90 and then another horizontal 12" straight section to the universal adapter at the thimble so there isn't a lot of weight bearing straight down on the flue collar. I'll see how stable it is once its all attached.

Russ

 

[Russ1053]

Are you running vertical with your double wall? If so, omit the screws at the flue. Note also that you can't screw the double wall into the ceiling support box if you have one. The only screws I can install are the ones that hold the sections together and the screws to hole the slip joint open.

Thanks Highbeam. The 7" to 6" reducer is what gets screwed into the pre-drilled collar. I'm coming up 12" vertical from the collar with the double wall to a 45 and then using about 30" or so of telescoping section to a 90. From there I have another horizontal 12" section that attaches to the universal adapter at the interior end of the Class A thimble. The tricky part looks likes its going to be screwing the last 12" section onto the universal adapter. Woodstock provided longer sheet metal screws but I still have to drill through both walls of the double wall and the adapter. I'm coming up shorter off the top of the stove and using the 45 to maintain a good pitch up to the thimble. That way I only have the one shorter horizontal run going out the wall.

Russ

 

[Highbeam]

Must you use double wall? With all those bends and non-vertical sections, I'd sure like to restrain the pipe from walking away on you. With single wall you have better screwing options.

 

[Russ1053]

Must you use double wall? With all those bends and non-vertical sections, I'd sure like to restrain the pipe from walking away on you. With single wall you have better screwing options.

Yep, I need the double wall for clearances. All of the pipe sections are pre-drilled for four screws at the joints. Its all pretty heavy stuff, especially the telescoping section, which is why I was considering a couple of extra screws at the flue collar to hold the 7" to 6" reducer and first 12" vertical section plumb. I can always go back to my original plan of coming up 36" vert. from the collar to a 90, to an 18" horizontal, and finally to a 45 that would attach to the universal adapter at the thimble. That gives me two 18" horizontal runs instead of one.

 

[Highbeam]

That would be a less desirable flue setup from the performance end.

 

[rideau]

Trying to picture this install. Do you mean a second 45 rather than a 90, to complete the 90 degree turn to the thimble?

I'd run the install past the pipe manufacturer. I have ICC, but it is double wall right from the stove (no adapter), and ICC specifically says to screw the (adjustable) pipe to the collar with three screws, to the box with three screws, and at the slip joint with two screws. Your pipe manufacturer likely has specific instructions, and I'd follow their advice.

Edit: So, from your last post I guess the thimble is on an angled wall or ceiling? Or am I being dense? Anyway, I'd check with the manufaturer. Sure sounds like they want a four screw attachment if they have four predrilled holes.

 

[Russ1053]

That would be a less desirable flue setup from the performance end.

Most definitely. If using the 45 pitch for the telescoping section puts too much side strain at the collar then I might have to consider another configuration or maybe supporting the middle section from the ceiling. It is a corner install and where I had to go out the wall to clear the upstairs bedroom window (Cape with the window in the gable end center) results in the pipe angling toward the wall and thimble. Thus the need for the two angles.

 

[Russ1053]

Trying to picture this install. Do you mean a second 45 rather than a 90, to complete the 90 degree turn to the thimble?

I'd run the install past the pipe manufacturer. I have ICC, but it is double wall right from the stove (no adapter), and ICC specifically says to screw the (adjustable) pipe to the collar with three screws, to the box with three screws, and at the slip joint with two screws. Your pipe manufacturer likely has specific instructions, and I'd follow their advice.

Edit: So, from your last post I guess the thimble is on an angled wall or ceiling? Or am I being dense? Anyway, I'd check with the manufaturer. Sure sounds like they want a four screw attachment if they have four predrilled holes.

One 45 at 12" above the flue collar and one 90 at the end of the telescoping section to make the turn to the thimble. I'm using double wall all the way from the stove top to the Class A thimble. The only single wall is the 7" to 6" reducer that sits in the flue collar and the universal adapter that came with the Class A chimney pipe. Both get contained inside the double wall once it is in place.

I've always understood that everything gets at least three screws. Olympia pre-drills their double wall for four screws and provides the four screws for each joint so that is the way that I'll do it. Woodstock provides two screw holes in the flue collar, which didn't seem too secure to me. I'll probably just go ahead and drill two more holes in the cast flue collar just to be safe. I've got a drill press so it shouldn't be too difficult. Just gotta go slow and keep everything plumb. I could always take a run up to Woodstock Soapstone and have them do it for me.

The thimble comes straight in through the living room wall square to the wall, no angles. The stove position relative to the thimble location is what necessitates the 45 and 90. I'll see if I can post a photo. Its pretty clear cut once you see it. A chimney sweep friend was helping me do the install so I could save some money but then he bailed and left me to figure out the interior pipe configuration myself. I was originally using single wall but realized that I didn't have the correct clearances to the living room wall. I like the double wall better anyway.

 

[rideau]

One 45 at 12" above the flue collar and one 90 at the end of the telescoping section to make the turn to the thimble. I'm using double wall all the way from the stove top to the Class A thimble. The only single wall is the 7" to 6" reducer that sits in the flue collar and the universal adapter that came with the Class A chimney pipe. Both get contained inside the double wall once it is in place.

I've always understood that everything gets at least three screws. Olympia pre-drills their double wall for four screws and provides the four screws for each joint so that is the way that I'll do it. Woodstock provides two screw holes in the flue collar, which didn't seem too secure to me. I'll probably just go ahead and drill two more holes in the cast flue collar just to be safe. I've got a drill press so it shouldn't be too difficult. Just gotta go slow and keep everything plumb. I could always take a run up to Woodstock Soapstone and have them do it for me.

The thimble comes straight in through the living room wall square to the wall, no angles. The stove position relative to the thimble location is what necessitates the 45 and 90. I'll see if I can post a photo. Its pretty clear cut once you see it. A chimney sweep friend was helping me do the install so I could save some money but then he bailed and left me to figure out the interior pipe configuration myself. I was originally using single wall but realized that I didn't have the correct clearances to the living room wall. I like the double wall better anyway.

Thanks, I get the install now.

 

[Highbeam]

Double wall is a superior product. It is heavier though and the inner wall is tougher to access for screwing. You need at least three screws to prevent motion of the joined pipes. Otherwise they can rock. If you only add a single additional screw hole to the collar, that would be enough.

 

[Russ1053]

Double wall is a superior product. It is heavier though and the inner wall is tougher to access for screwing. You need at least three screws to prevent motion of the joined pipes. Otherwise they can rock. If you only add a single additional screw hole to the collar, that would be enough.

Yep, I agree all the way around. Here's a few photos. You have to envision the short section with the 90 attached to the end of the thimble and the telescoping section attached between the 45 and 90. Hmmm, pretty big photos. Maybe thumbnails next time.




Different angle of view.


Thimble with universal adapter attached. As far as I can tell, the end of the 12" horizontal section attaches directly to the adapter. Lots of hole drilling involved for that.


Thimble with cover. Haven't screwed the trim collar to the wall yet.


The inner wall of the double wall section fits inside the reducer. The outer wall covers it and sits flush to the top of the collar.

 

[Highbeam]

That is a nice stove.

So I recall the rear clearances on this stove being very large. You've got that thing cozied right into the corner. Are you certain that you are able to do that? You also need 16" in front of the loading door on the side right? You'll be ducking your head under that flue when you move in to load.

 

[Russ1053]

That is a nice stove.

So I recall the rear clearances on this stove being very large. You've got that thing cozied right into the corner. Are you certain that you are able to do that? You also need 16" in front of the loading door on the side right? You'll be ducking your head under that flue when you move in to load.

I'm looking forward to firing it up for the first time.

You recall correct. For a corner instal without the rear heat shield you need 18" from the back corners to any combustibles. I put the heat shield on so that allows me to reduce the clearances to combustibles to 12" from the rear corners. I'm at right around 12.75". Woodstock recommends 16" of hearth pad on the door side for embers and 8" for the front and other side. Since I'm reducing down to 6" pipe, I needed at least 10" to the front of the hearth pad. I've got 18" to 28" back to front on both sides and 18.5" on the front. The hearth pad is 54" X 54". The photos are deceiving. The middle pipe section pitches up pretty quickly. Plus the top is out from the wall the length of the Class A (10"), the 12" horizontal section, and the 90 so there should be plenty of room to load, adjust the air, and engage/disengage the cat. I'll be careful none-the-less. Coming up vertically off the stove 36" and using the two 90's and two horizontal sections to get to the thimble is more visually pleasing but, like you said, less desirable on the performance end of things. I'm thinking I might be a little short with the vertical 12" section possibly leaving me a bit low at the thimble. If so, I might need to add a 6" slip section to gain the last few inches of rise. Olympia doesn't make adjustable elbows like DuraVent. Had I known ahead of time I probably would have gone with the DuraVent but my friend got me the pipe and Class A for his cost. Adjustable elbows are pure genius.