Large ICF Ranch Insert - It's Decision Time!

[BsFire]

Starting a fresh new post - hoping to narrow it down and finally make a decision. This ended up getting pretty lengthy (sorry). There's just a lot to consider, Of course, any input is greatly appreciated!

Our house was built using Insulated Concrete Forms (ICF). It's a large ranch (main floor is 2,800sq ft, so say 5,000ish with finished basement). After a year or so of research and living in the house longer, I am definitely going with an insert on the main level. It will go in our open living room that measures 19' x 22', with vaulted ceilings. I've attached a pic of the living room and a rough drawing of the floor plan.

Main Goal: Reduce propane use as much as possible. We go thru about 700g Sept – Feb. (200g a mth when it's REALLY cold) of propane. Another member originally mentioned that those kind of numbers would call for a medium sized firebox, something in the 2 - 2.5 cu ft range. *However, everyone always says to go larger if you can. Whataya' guys think? Should, or could we go with a large (3+ cu ft) firebox and not get burned out of the main living area.

Also looking for...

A nice show (after checking with my better half again - this is pretty much at the top of the list). A cat stove was my original plan so that we can go low and slow when needed - but a boring fire isn't an option (yeah, she trumped me). I understand the quality of the Blaze King Princess can't be beat - but I'm afraid it's going to be too boring. Correct me if I'm wrong.

A high quality and reputable insert. I don't want problems!! (and don't worry - I've had lots of wood split and stacked for over a year+ and I have a moisture meter).

Would prefer something with an ash lip to prevent ash from getting sucked up into the blower. I'm thinking a semi-flush might be a good choice since they're supposed to be a little better at putting off radiant heat, which should help if we lose power. One question in regards to power... We have an outlet on a wall to the left of the hearth - is it ok to run cord to the left if it's on the right side of the insert? How long are the power cords?

A quiet blower and clean glass are important - along with long burn times (of course).

I've read through a lot of posts and found so many different opinions) in regard to OAKs. If I don't go with an OAK to start, is it a big deal to have it ran later if needed? We do have an ash dump, but would rather not put a hole in the outside hearth if possible. The chimney is just 14' and some change. I'll have them add an extension to get to 15' since it's required. There is a small air vent in the current fireplace. Should I have that sealed up? Pic is attached.

Planning on a block off plate. Also going to look into a custom surround - something that will match the shape of the arch shaped stone. Will just need to find someone that can fab both.

In terms of specific inserts - what would you suggest? We like the looks of the Osburn 2400 - but I don't think it has an ash lip and not sure if it has the option for an OAK? Those probably aren't deal breakers however.

Fireplace Measurements:
Back Width: 30.5" • Depth: 24" • Front Width" 36" • Height" 27.5" (at top of arch)

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts - thanks in advance!!

 

[begreen]

2.2 Outside combustion air

Provision has been made on the 2400 Insert to accept fresh air for combustion purposes. A 4"
(102 mm) hole has been punched-out on the bottom air jacket, and the hole center line is
located 11" (279 mm) forward of the rear air jacket and 6" (152 mm) in from the right hand air
jacket.

Go large if there's room. Fireplace dimensions needed. Previous discussion here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-insert-for-icf-large-ranch-what-would-you-buy.142417/

 

[BsFire]

Sounds like an OAK is an option for the 2400. Good to know!

Do you know if it has an ash lip?

Fireplace measurements are listed at the end of my post.

Thanks!


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[Highbeam]

It won't burn you out of the room. With an insert especially, go as big as you can. Not even a question. 3+ c.f..

 

[blades]

and if you do not already have ceiling fans in that vaulted area , a pair would help tremendously.

 

[BsFire]

and if you do not already have ceiling fans in that vaulted area , a pair would help tremendously.

We have one in the main living area along with a ceiling fan in each room. Air flow seems to be pretty good throughout the main floor. Getting the heat to the master may be the biggest challenge.

 

[Highbeam]

We have one in the main living area along with a ceiling fan in each room. Air flow seems to be pretty good throughout the main floor. Getting the heat to the master may be the biggest challenge.

Embrace that lack of heat in the master. We love that 10 degree drop from the stoveroom/living/room family room to the sleeping quarters. In all cases, the room with the stove will be warmer than the remote rooms. Sometimes by a few degrees but sometimes more. It's one of the benefits of non-ducted heat.

 

[BsFire]

Embrace that lack of heat in the master. We love that 10 degree drop from the stoveroom/living/room family room to the sleeping quarters. In all cases, the room with the stove will be warmer than the remote rooms. Sometimes by a few degrees but sometimes more. It's one of the benefits of non-ducted heat.

Yes - Great point!! Thanks!

 

[BsFire]

Meeting with an Osburn dealer/installer later today at our house. Any suggestions on specific questions to ask?

 

[blades]

Everything related to the install and flue system

 

[BsFire]

So I built a rough "replica" of the Osburn 2400 out of black foam core to get a better idea of what the stove would look like. We're not fans of how it looks extended onto the hearth - so we're going flush instead of semi-flush. The Mrs wants a larger viewing area also. She likes the Large Flush Hybrid Insert. I'm not familiar with the Hybrid technology. Looks like I'll be searching the forums a little more.

 

[begreen]

Flush units are popular. They provide a cleaner, fireplace look. Some caveats to ponder. Are there frequent power outages in the area? A flush insert will need the blower running to put out decent heat. Also, they have a tendency to suck ash into the blower intake so one needs to be sure to turn off the blower if ash drops onto the hearth and clean it up. These aren't show stoppers but worth considering.

 

[BsFire]

Flush units are more popular. They provide a cleaner, fireplace look. Some caveats to ponder. Are there frequent power outages in the area? A flush insert will need the blower running to put out decent heat. Also, they have a tendency to suck ash into the blower intake so one needs to be sure to turn off the blower if ash drops onto the hearth and clean it up. These aren't show stoppers but worth considering.

We actually talked about the power outage issue. We don't really lose power - so not too worried about it. I would prefer something with an ash lip, but it won't be a major deciding factor. Will just have to be careful with the mess. Thanks!!

 

[begreen]

Also worth looking at are the Hearthstone Clydesdale and the Enviro 1700 Boston/Venice/Cabello (facade variations).

 

[BsFire]

I've always liked the looks of the Enviro Boston and Venice, so will look into those a little more closely also - thanks!

*Quick question on heat output... Hopefully this doesn't sound completely stupid... Is there an easy way to look at the insert specs to gauge just how much heat the insert puts out into a given area? I guess what I'm asking is, do the BTUs listed (83,200 for the Large Flush Hybrid • 74,000 for the 1700) directly relate to how much heat you feel, say 5' away from the insert? Are you really going to notice a heating difference between the two if they were placed in the same room?

 

[begreen]

Heat output figures can get into a marketing game for some stove companies. I would ignore maximum output figures unless you intend to stoke the fireplace continually. Go by the firebox size for a better approximation and stove efficiency. The LFI has a slightly larger firebox and with the cat it can be a bit more efficient so it may deliver more heat at normal burning temps. The EPA stove certification list is sometimes more helpful for real world results. It lists the output when testing with a control amount of doug fir. The Enviro 1700 series have an output of 9400-31800 btus/hr, The LFI has a rating of 11900-42900 btus/hr. The Hearthstone Clydesdale has a 11900-33100 btus/hr rating.

(broken link removed to https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-wood-stoves)

 

[BsFire]

Heat output figures can get into a marketing game for some stove companies. I would ignore maximum output figures unless you intend to stoke the fireplace continually. Go by the firebox size for a better approximation and stove efficiency. The LFI has a slightly larger firebox and with the cat it can be a bit more efficient so it may deliver more heat at normal burning temps. The EPA stove certification list is sometimes more helpful for real world results. It lists the output when testing with a control amount of doug fir. The Enviro 1700 series have an output of 9400-31800 btus/hr, The LFI has a rating of 11900-42900 btus/hr. The Hearthstone Clydesdale has a 11900-33100 btus/hr rating.

(broken link removed to https://www.epa.gov/compliance/list-epa-certified-wood-stoves)

All great to know - and a great reference to have! Thanks!!

 

[BsFire]

Need a little help on what it would take to get the LFI to fit (if it will at all)...

Setup another foam core replica (pic attached). It's kind of hard to see in the pic, but there are three pieces. The largest/outer black piece represents the Metropolitan face with beveled edges (35 3/8"w x 26 1/4" h), the inner black piece represents the insert (31"w x 22" h) and the white piece is the glass.

Our Fireplace Measurements:
Front Width: 36"
Height: 27.5" (at top of arch)
Back Width: 30.5"
Depth: 24"

The LFI Minimum Fireplace Requirements Are:
Front Width: 33"
Height: 23.5"
Back Width: 20.75""
Depth: 19"

Comparing numbers, it's look like it would fit no problem. But with the way the arch width tapers, I think we might need to chip away some of the stone to get it to fit. There's no going back if we do that. Is that normal - or better yet, a big deal?

 

[BsFire]

Holy sh&$! Just saw the Big Bad Equinox in person - whoa! Almost has me forgetting about the main floor setup. About to jack my own thread and switch back to the basement setup ... Hmmmm


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[begreen]

That is a gorgeous piece of rock.

 

[BsFire]

begreen - just sent you a message about an Equinox. Check it out - thx!


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[BsFire]

Got some bids on the LFI - pushing 7K! We've decided to leave the main floor fireplace as is for now. After really looking into this, It's going to be WAY easier to go with a freestanding stove in the basement. Going to keep an eye out for deals and put something down there for now, to see how much of an impact it makes. We'll upgrade down the road.

Awesome forum! Thanks again for all of the advice!!