Large Stove Comparison

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,412
central pa
Well that is the different. How you are going to keep hot and steady when you has no control over secondary burn? tell me how you control them? tell me how you going to extend the burn when you only have control over primary air and not 100%? you just burn the stove when is real cold outside? there is no fall and spring for you? times that you don't need all that heat? What, i have to load just a few pieces every two hrs and become an slave of that stove? better, let me mix my dry wood with the high MC wood or green one to avoid it takes off?
We have been through that we know how to use our stove to heat our houses. We adjust with load sizes and wood species it really is not that hard.
 

Squisher

Minister of Fire
Nov 1, 2015
1,623
vernon BC, Canada
What can't you get about it? I heat with wood through the winter. I have a natural gas furnace that would kick in if my home ever got cold enough or I wasn't going to be home. That doesn't change what I demand out of a wood heater as my furnace rarely to never kicks in during the winter. In a climate where winter is cold it doesn't make sense to only have one heat source.
 

lsucet

Minister of Fire
May 14, 2015
1,577
San Ysidro, New Mexico
Yes I know the differences very well and for some cat stoves are right and for some tube stoves are. Some like down drafts and there are some who are very happy with their old pre epa stoves. I am just pointing out that you are applying your very limited experiences to every one else. And as I said your comarisone is not fair due to the fact that your tube stove was an entry level stove running with to much draft. To use your car analogy that is like saying all imported cars are better because your new BMW is much better than your old geo metro with a stuck throttle.[/QUO


the way it works is the same and the same technology. they need the approval from the EPA and pass certain test and the epa is more forgiving with tube stoves, we all know that. What is the control you have on yours over mine? The ones that i mentioned before?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,412
central pa
Well englanders are known for having issues with over firing to start with and then you had it on a chimney that had to much draft by your own description. Just because a stove can pass a test under certain circumstances does not mean they are all equal. And please tell me how the epa test which is the same for cats and non cats is more forgiving to non cats.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,412
central pa
"the way it works is the same and the same technology."

Does that mean that there is absolutely no difference between the Milwaukee m18 tools I use and the 18vlithium ion porter cable tools you can buy at lowes for 1/3 the price? No there is allot more that goes into it than just the basic mode of operation and basic tech.
 

lsucet

Minister of Fire
May 14, 2015
1,577
San Ysidro, New Mexico
What can't you get about it? I heat with wood through the winter. I have a natural gas furnace that would kick in if my home ever got cold enough or I wasn't going to be home. That doesn't change what I demand out of a wood heater as my furnace rarely to never kicks in during the winter. In a climate where winter is cold it doesn't make sense to only have one heat source.
I also have plenty of heating s
Well englanders are known for having issues with over firing to start with and then you had it on a chimney that had to much draft by your own description. Just because a stove can pass a test under certain circumstances does not mean they are all equal. And please tell me how the epa test which is the same for cats and non cats is more forgiving to non cats.
You work with stoves all day. come on, you should know better than me how that works. it is nothing new
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,412
central pa
You work with stoves all day. come on, you should know better than me how that works. it is nothing new
Yes I know how it works I have seen the testing have you? I have talked to engineers from quite a few stove manufacturers. And all of the stoves pass the same tests. Yes bk does their own testing which without a doubt is better and more representative of real world results but that has nothing to do with the epa. So can you back up your claim with any facts?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,412
central pa
And to be clear to all of the englander fans out there I am not bashing englanders at all they make very good stoves for the money without question. But they are prone to running hot especially with extra draft.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,475
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Ok what other cat stove were you referring to then? What other cat stove has burn times that long? What are the efficiency rating of those other cat stoves? You claim to be talking about the technology but are only referencing the bk numbers.


Yes what stove in what size house? I know people use cats stoves and bks in all climates I never said otherwise. And if they work well for them and they are happy with them fine good for them I am not going to tell them they are using the wrong stove. Because it is the right stove for them.


None of es ever said anything even remotely resembling that.


You do realize I work on all types of stoves every day. I have burnt many different stoves of all types. No we don't have a ton of bks here but we see enough.


Yes at national conventions I get to talk to sweeps from all over the country and some outside the country amount what they burn what their customers burn ect.


Yes and I learned the differences by working on the stoves talking to my customers ect. I have not burnt a cat stove in my house yet. If I come across one that would work here at a decent price I will pick it up and see how it works for me. But I am not going out and spending all the money on a king then installing an 8" stack for it just so I can load a little less often. You comparison is not exactly fair either you are comparing an entry level tube stove that was on an over drafting chimney to a top of the line cat stove with the over drafting issue fixed.


I have absolutely nothing against good cat stoves and bk is one of if not the best cat stove out there. But they are not the best fit for every situation why cant you see that?
The only other brand of cat stove capable of almost the same performance specifications is Woodstock with their one ideal steel model. If bk went bankrupt I would be happy with the IS.

I would not recommend the bk because of efficiency but the efficiency does pay for the cats, an important point. I do recommend bk stoves for the wide range of output from barely any heat at all to 90,000 btu with thermostatic control. If you just need full power, that is fine but even where you live there is a shoulder season that requires less output. You can always match stove output to your needs for maximum burn time without overheating the room. People heat their houses with all kinds of heat sources, none of us would freeze even if we had to use a barrel stove.
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,475
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
We have been through that we know how to use our stove to heat our houses. We adjust with load sizes and wood species it really is not that hard.
That's a huge hassle. What if you only have one species? A small load would have a small burntime, then the house cools and you burn another. Repeat repeat repeat. Imagine just turning down the thermostat on a load of anything.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,412
central pa
The only other brand of cat stove capable of almost the same performance specifications is Woodstock with their one ideal steel model. If bk went bankrupt I would be happy with the IS.
Yes I know that And the big regency is getting close not there yet though. I was just tring to point out that whether he said bk or not he was still talking about bk stoves not all cat stoves. But thanks anyway.

I would not recommend the bk because of efficiency but the efficiency does pay for the cats, an important point. I do recommend bk stoves for the wide range of output from barely any heat at all to 90,000 btu with thermostatic control. If you just need full power, that is fine but even where you live there is a shoulder season that requires less output. You can always match stove output to your needs for maximum burn time without overheating the room. People heat their houses with all kinds of heat sources, none of us would freeze even if we had to use a barrel stove.
Well said and I have never criticized bk stoves they are great stoves without question. Well that is not true I have criticized the looks of the king and princess but they are still great stoves. Just not ones I personally would put in my living room. And like I have said if I find one at the right price I would gladly try it.
 

lsucet

Minister of Fire
May 14, 2015
1,577
San Ysidro, New Mexico
Hey there is a lot of people doing the job with less expensive tools and can do a good job too cause they take pride. that example with all respect don't mean anything to me. i am hanging in here cause like is obvious i have nothing else to do. I am bored and it is fun to hang here and go thru all this. at the end of the day i care less about what you have , you do, etc . I am saying this in a good way, don't get me wrong. we all do what we have to do and that is it. wrong or right. you know i work for Chrysler. i am a master tech i work in anything but i stay busy all year around with transmissions and diesels. there is no need to tell you that i know about quality tools.lol but it is what it is and to finish this my stove is the best.lol
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,412
central pa
That's a huge hassle. What if you only have one species? A small load would have a small burntime, then the house cools and you burn another. Repeat repeat repeat. Imagine just turning down the thermostat on a load of anything.
No really not a hassle. And the area I live no one has only one species. We live in the middle of a great hardwood forest. And no in the shoulder season I will start a fire in the evening when it gets cool it will burn into the night. And the house will be warm in the morning. Start another fire the next evening if need be. Or if I get lazy I just turn on the furnace. But I really dont do that often.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,412
central pa
Hey there is a lot of people doing the job with less expensive tools and can do a good job too cause they take pride. that example with all respect don't mean anything to me.
Yes the cheaper tools do work just like the cheaper stoves work but that does not mean they work as well. Or will work as long or as hard. And yes your stove is best for you and that is great.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
16,475
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
Yes I know that And the big regency is getting close not there yet though. I was just tring to point out that whether he said bk or not he was still talking about bk stoves not all cat stoves. But thanks anyway.


Well said and I have never criticized bk stoves they are great stoves without question. Well that is not true I have criticized the looks of the king and princess but they are still great stoves. Just not ones I personally would put in my living room. And like I have said if I find one at the right price I would gladly try it.
The king/princess are indeed pretty ugly. Sure, the look grows on you but even bk knew they had to improve the looks so came out with the other stoves.
 

jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
4,311
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
That's a huge hassle. What if you only have one species? A small load would have a small burntime, then the house cools and you burn another. Repeat repeat repeat. Imagine just turning down the thermostat on a load of anything.
What if you had great thermostatic control AND plenty of oak, maple and pine in your stacks to choose from? >>

(/no locust, but I live in hope that I'll find ten cords curbside on Craigslist any day now. )
 

lsucet

Minister of Fire
May 14, 2015
1,577
San Ysidro, New Mexico
hey i like the ugly one the princess make me feel a king
 

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lsucet

Minister of Fire
May 14, 2015
1,577
San Ysidro, New Mexico
Yes the cheaper tools do work just like the cheaper stoves work but that does not mean they work as well. Or will work as long or as hard. And yes your stove is best for you and that is great.
then am i allow to say that cause your stove is cheaper than mine then it does not perform the same than mine? Oh ok good.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
19,412
central pa
The king/princess are indeed pretty ugly. Sure, the look grows on you but even bk knew they had to improve the looks so came out with the other stoves.
And yes without question they do have some great looking stoves now.
 

Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
820
NY

Niko

Minister of Fire
Nov 12, 2013
521
Dutchess county, NY
so i created a thread about highest stove temps. Lets stop talking about it and show some real proof.
 
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tarzan

Minister of Fire
Jan 16, 2014
1,552
wv
Interesting that they don't state in the manual what the peak output of the King is. I wonder why that is. Why stick a vauge reference to its peak output in an obscure location buried on their site? Wouldn't you want to tell the world you have 900hp and 29 mpg?
I think BK takes pride in putting out usable BTU numbers you can expect to see in the real world and not numbers derived from stoking it like a steam engine or a peak output that only lasts a short time. Look closer into how these 90,000+ btu numbers are achieved and you may realize the more conservative numbers BK puts out are typical numbers you should expect to see when running the stove the way BK designed them to run.
 
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Marshy

Minister of Fire
Dec 29, 2016
820
NY
Given that any stove's BTU output is bell curve-ish over a burn cycle, saying 'this stove puts out X BTUs' is a little bit silly in the first place.
It would be wonderful if the manufactures would post the bell curve plot of the stoves operation, wouldn't it?
 

jetsam

Minister of Fire
Dec 12, 2015
4,311
Long Island, NY
youtu.be
It would be wonderful if the manufactures would post the bell curve plot of the stoves operation, wouldn't it?
Eh, then you'd be trusting them to use standardized burn conditions to get the data points for the plot. I wouldn't take such numbers to the bank, but you could probably draw some useful generalizations from them, especially if they were rigorous as to what they standardized. (For example, does the flue "go outside", or does it go a fixed distance into an actively pressure-and-temperature controlled environment? Since turbulence is important to stove operation, how is the pressure in the exhaust space maintained smoothly as the stove's draw varies? Etc.)

Anyone who thinks anything's simple probably hasn't thought about it much! :)