Largest Fit Insert as Home Backup Heat

[Brigcoals]

We would love to install a flush insert in our main fireplace, as large as we can fit - struggling a bit getting good local advice or decide after reading some forums.

We currently have heat pumps for all heating so this would be both ambiance and backup for when lose power. A quiet blower for normal use is a bonus, don't mind it running louder when needed.

The fireplace opening is 34" wide at front tapering to 28" wide at back. 21" deep and 28" high. Ideally we fill the space as much as possible and have as small a shroud as possible.

We got a rough estimate of $7k for a Lopi, including full install and chimney liner. Was a bit more than I expected but maybe that's post-covid prices. The dealer didn't offer any other brands.

Would really appreciate thoughts on inserts to consider, rough idea if pricing makes sense and how best to fill the existing opening.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

If the chimney liner is insulated, and the install a block-off plate, that's a good price. My guess is that neither are included.

Note that flush inserts need the blower running to convect the heat. The power outage output will be considerably lower without the blower. An insert that 's not flush will do better in an outage.

 

[Brigcoals]

Thanks for this begreen - so potentially looking at a higher price? In that case will need to pick an insert that qualifies for the tax rebate.

Failed to mention we have a small generator that we plan to use to run the blower. Enough to cover that and a few other things in the house, but not the heat pumps.

 

[Garbanzo62]

See if that Insert is an EPA rated stove. You can get a 30% Tax Credit on Material and installation if it is. Last year my installation of a Regency Insert was $7500. Insulated liner but no block off plate.

 

[danham]

Our 2-story house is 2040 sq ft and our insert in the first-floor living room puts out enough heat to blast us out of the living room (74+) and to keep the upstairs comfortable for sleeping (60+ with the insert fan; 50 without). In our previous smaller house we would remove the surrounding sheet metal during a power failure to make up for the smaller insert not sticking out very far from the fireplace. We haven't had to do that in our current home, even during power failures. Ours is an inside chimney, but a block-off plate is still very important. For exterior chimneys, Roxul insulation behind the stove helps a lot.

-dan

 

[begreen]

See if that Insert is an EPA rated stove. You can get a 30% Tax Credit on Material and installation if it is. Last year my installation of a Regency Insert was $7500. Insulated liner but no block off plate.

Many EPA rated stoves and inserts do not qualify. They must have 75% or better HHV and a certificate from the mfg. stating it qualifies. There are some good, lower cost inserts, making the tax credit less of an issue.

New tax credits for 2021

Hello, I have a new blaze king princess insert ordered and is scheduled to deliver mid January. I heard rumor the new federal tax credit for wood stoves is 26 percent of the purchase price plus install as opposed to the old flat rate of $300. Can anyone confirm that? Also, is the chimney liner...

www.hearth.com

 

[Brigcoals]

See if that Insert is an EPA rated stove. You can get a 30% Tax Credit on Material and installation if it is. Last year my installation of a Regency Insert was $7500. Insulated liner but no block off plate.

Will check and shortlist only ones that qualify. Learning I do want an insulated liner too.

 

[Brigcoals]

Our 2-story house is 2040 sq ft and our insert in the first-floor living room puts out enough heat to blast us out of the living room (74+) and to keep the upstairs comfortable for sleeping (60+ with the insert fan; 50 without). In our previous smaller house we would remove the surrounding sheet metal during a power failure to make up for the smaller insert not sticking out very far from the fireplace. We haven't had to do that in our current home, even during power failures. Ours is an inside chimney, but a block-off plate is still very important. For exterior chimneys, Roxul insulation behind the stove helps a lot.

-dan

Dan, this is great to hear. Exactly what I would hope to achieve.

 

[Brigcoals]

Many EPA rated stoves and inserts do not qualify. They must have 75% or better HHV and a certificate from the mfg. stating it qualifies. There are some good, lower cost inserts, making the tax credit less of an issue.

New tax credits for 2021

Hello, I have a new blaze king princess insert ordered and is scheduled to deliver mid January. I heard rumor the new federal tax credit for wood stoves is 26 percent of the purchase price plus install as opposed to the old flat rate of $300. Can anyone confirm that? Also, is the chimney liner...

www.hearth.com

OK, it sounds like I'm better finding one that qualifies but lower cost could be an option. Would like an insert that fills as much of the open fireplace as possible, if bigger = more expensive

 

[Garbanzo62]

Dan, this is great to hear. Exactly what I would hope to achieve.

keep in mind that the Layout of your house will affect how much heat you can get to other rooms. Open floor plans are much easier to move warm air around then closed ones. I have a 2400 sqft center stairs colonial. The stairs up are on the front side of the house, the insert is on a back side wall. There is a narrow hall and a dining room that any heat needs to travel through to get up the stairs. Some heat does make it up that staircase, but it is not going to travel down the upstairs hallway and into the bedrooms. The backside of my house can get between 72 and 80 degrees. (ceiling near the insert gets up to 85). I might get 65 at the top of the stairs Of course, the longer you have the unit going the more heat will migrate to the colder areas.

 

[begreen]

@Brigcoals, how large is the area that the fireplace is in? Is the floorplan open so that heat can easily spread to adjacent areas or closed off into rooms with doorways?
Lopi makes some decent inserts. Which Lopi was the quote for?

 

[Brigcoals]

@Brigcoals, how large is the area that the fireplace is in? Is the floorplan open so that heat can easily spread to adjacent areas or closed off into rooms with doorways?
Lopi makes some decent inserts. Which Lopi was the quote for?

It is a large room with doorways (no doors) open to a kitchen and hallway, floor is ~1,200sqft. Decent size stairway to 2nd floor but then its a hallway with doors into bedrooms so expect heat movement would be less efficient. During power loss it doesn't need to be perfect, just reasonable temp and stop the house freezing.

The Lopi was the medium or large nexgen flush. They said would need to remeasure to confirm if the large would fit - I would like as large as possible both to fill the existing space and max heat output (if that's the correct way to think about it).

I measured the fireplace as 34" wide at front tapering to 28" wide at back. 21" deep and 28" high.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like the insert will be primarily heating the stove room and kitchen. Heat doesn't travel well down hallways without some convective assistance. Sounds like the medium will suffice. Flush inserts will not produce a lot of heat without the blower running.

 

[Garbanzo62]

It is a large room with doorways (no doors) open to a kitchen and hallway, floor is ~1,200sqft. Decent size stairway to 2nd floor but then its a hallway with doors into bedrooms so expect heat movement would be less efficient. During power loss it doesn't need to be perfect, just reasonable temp and stop the house freezing.

The Lopi was the medium or large nexgen flush. They said would need to remeasure to confirm if the large would fit - I would like as large as possible both to fill the existing space and max heat output (if that's the correct way to think about it).

I measured the fireplace as 34" wide at front tapering to 28" wide at back. 21" deep and 28" high.

This is where my insert is. From where this picture was taken I can get 72 degrees. Where the Insert is can be 84 on the ceiling about 79 waist height. You can see on the left the opening to the hall and the door to the basement, above that is the staircase to the upper level, next to the door is a wider opening to the formal dining room. The hallway and dining room I can get to 68 or so and up the stairs 65 - 67. I keep the thermostats at 64. My son when he visits sleeps in the room above where the insert is, he claims it makes the room warmer, but then again he likes to sleep with the window open in the winter.

 

[begreen]

This is where my insert is. From where this picture was taken I can get 72 degrees. Where the Insert is can be 84 on the ceiling about 79 waist height.

Is this with the ceiling and insert blower running?

If so, fan on the floor where you are standing, pointing toward the stove, should cure the imbalance.

 

[Garbanzo62]

Is this with the ceiling and insert blower running?

If so, fan on the floor where you are standing, pointing toward the stove, should cure the imbalance.

Insert blower going. Ceiling fan some times. My dog is scared of box fans on the floor and her bed area is right behind that picture. Tried using them last year, but it was not worth the trouble of freaking out the dog

 

[Brigcoals]

It sounds like the insert will be primarily heating the stove room and kitchen. Heat doesn't travel well down hallways without some convective assistance. Sounds like the medium will suffice. Flush inserts will not produce a lot of heat without the blower running.

Insert blower going. Ceiling fan some times. My dog is scared of box fans on the floor and her bed area is right behind that picture. Tried using them last year, but it was not worth the trouble of freaking out the dog

Thanks again for these thoughts. Just got the project measured today and a few follow up questions, think it makes sense to start a new thread for them.