just started my first fire on a us stove box style 2421 and a noticed smoke building in the room. the flue was wide open as i looked along the stove top i saw a steady stream of smoke coming from a seam at the rear of stove. so i put out the fire with sand and had to open all the windows to let the smoke out, so instead of getting a warm room i now have a quit cold room. my question is: is there a caulking that is used to seal around cast iron stoves like this. as is i can't use it at all. thanks
leaking box stove
- Thread starter ftangell
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
You are going to catch grief over the type of stove but let's start with basics.
What kind of chimney, type, height etc. do you have and how are you starting the fire?
What kind of chimney, type, height etc. do you have and how are you starting the fire?
i have a dura tec double wall stailnless steel and dura tec double wall stove pipe. the would isn't the best but its all i had. oak. i got the fire going all right kept the door open most of the time. when i noticed smoke in the room building i started examining around stove and pipe. thats when i saw a stream of smoke coming from the rear in a steady stream. why do you say this stove is grief. thanks and the chimney pipe is close to three feet above highest point on roof, five foot of chimney pipe all together.
certified106
Minister of Fire
Consider yourself lucky that the only thing that stove has done is smoke up your house! Now go throw the stove away and lets talk about safer stoves to heat your house with. That stove has a horrible track record and is horribly unsafe due to its complete lack of control you are able to have over how the stove acts. Someone on this forum had one of those stoves go nuclear on them recently and was luck enough to catch it so his house didn't burn down. I am being very sincere for your safety I would not use the stove or have it in my house.
Edit: my father bought one of these stoves for the milking parlor on the dairy farm I grew up on........long story short we only had it for about a month before getting rid of it due to the fact you could walk away from it for30-45 minutes with it completely shut down and come back to find it literally glowing orange on the sides. If you pay attention to the ones you see for sale on Craigslist most of the sides are completely white due to the inherent nature of the stove over firing.
Edit: my father bought one of these stoves for the milking parlor on the dairy farm I grew up on........long story short we only had it for about a month before getting rid of it due to the fact you could walk away from it for30-45 minutes with it completely shut down and come back to find it literally glowing orange on the sides. If you pay attention to the ones you see for sale on Craigslist most of the sides are completely white due to the inherent nature of the stove over firing.
certified106 is correct and even the manufacturer recommends that stove for things like sheds. But with just five feet of chimney you are never going to develop a draft that will pull the smoke out of the stove. Look at the recommended chimney in the manual.
What folks are going to tell you is true. Those stove are dangerous even with a proper chimney.
What folks are going to tell you is true. Those stove are dangerous even with a proper chimney.
well i'm sorry to hear that. so there is no hope for this stove? there goes three hundred down the tubes. i bought it cause i've had experence with pot belly stoves that seemed to do pretty good, so i thought this would be ok. well then, what's the most economical stove that won't burn the house down.
Englander, Drolet, Napolian and US Stove are respected names. I suppose it would depend on model with US stove.
Look for a UL listing on it.
Matt
Look for a UL listing on it.
Matt
dougand3
Minister of Fire
Sorry that you have trouble. But WELCOME! It's smart of you to ask safety questions here.
Here is the cheapest, safe quality stove that I've seen lately. Reviews look good.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/united...toreId=415&ddkey=http:WcmDisplay#BVRRWidgetID
How many TOTAL feet of stove pipe/chimney pipe do you have? 15 feet (from bottom of stove fire box) is usually minimum.
Here is the cheapest, safe quality stove that I've seen lately. Reviews look good.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/united...toreId=415&ddkey=http:WcmDisplay#BVRRWidgetID
How many TOTAL feet of stove pipe/chimney pipe do you have? 15 feet (from bottom of stove fire box) is usually minimum.
thanks for all the replies. they have given me some insight into what my situation is with this stove. answering the total feet of pipe question, from stove bed, it would add up to about 12 feet. i guess a little bit shy. i guess i'll talk to us stove and the distributor to see what if anything they have say about it.
dougand3
Minister of Fire
If you have smoke coming of seams - sounds like a factory defect. I would hope they would do right for you. Maybe give this boxwood back and apply that money to a better US Stove...like model 2000 at TSC above.
certified106
Minister of Fire
I completely sympathize with you about the fact you already spent $300 on the stove but I would contact them and explain how the stove doesn't work and ask if you can return it for a refund as you don't have anything to lose and the worst they can say is no (where did you purchase it from?). One of the previous posters mentioned the Us Stove model 2000 and I have looked at that one at a TSC around us and it appears to be a decent looking EPA approved stove for around $500. Alot of people around this site have had great experience with Englander stoves and they are very reasonably priced.ft said:
I am not sure what part of the country you are from but many times Craigs List can yield a decent stove for half or less than the price of a new one. In fact I would be more inclined to buy something like an old Fisher off of Craigs List and run that in your home before I would run the one you have now. If you can give us more specifics like average winter temps, the size of the house, how well insulated it is, etc........people will be able to help point you in the right direction quite a bit easier. Regardless of what type of stove you end up with you will still need to make sure the hearth requirements are met and the chimney is up to code and extended to the minimum height. Bye the way welcome to the forums
thanks, good to be here. we don't have very long winters here so that helps a lot. i'm in the panhandle of florida about 60 miles west of tallahassee. i put this stove up just in time for this arctic air blast or so i thought. anyway i might have to extend the chimney a couple more feet since i'm about 8 inches shy of the minimum. i am calling to find out about what can be done. thanks
Dakotas Dad
Minister of Fire
no it was a steady stream in a particular spot . i've checked the seams since and actually the cement or caulking used around the seams doesn't look all that good. there are a few gaps i'd like to fill with cement, maybe that'll do the trick. i don't know about returning it, since it weighs a lot and after paying freight again to send it back i won't be much ahead of price of stove, plus all the hassle and labor involved. i might just have to make the best of it.
CheapBassTurd
Minister of Fire
Resurrected Thread on the dreaded 2421
It's sold under a few names but I just got this model. Mama also wanted to
be able to cook on it and has much woodburning experience. We both liked the
price and rustic style of the thing. We've both wanted to burn every time we get a
winter (5 month) heating bill from 400-to 600 per month. We live in the country and
also have the forested side of the house stocked with dead tipovers ready to be sectioned.
I'm up to two cords cut/split/stacked now. Dunno the species but looks like the ash family.
Getting a safer stove isn't financially possible so we're going for it any way. We're dead-broke so to speak
after the bills get paid. This thing has to get us through the rest of this winter, period. Luckily
it's only a broke season in a lifetime and we can easily upgrade after recovering from this layoff.
(leap of faith n' switched careers at 48 years old. New job lays off first year employees)
On the positive side we have much to work with. I'm an iron foundryman by trade and can
take apart this thing before it's first firing. I'm going to clean up and straighten all of the seams.
I can fab most anything (no matter how ugly it comes out). I'm good, not great.
We're using NC wallboard to the ceiling, and similar base. We have to make this pig as safe as
possible and run it it least while an adult is home. (Just running down the heat bill will help.)
Please offer any real world usable tips. The searches I've done only have bashings to be read.
Can I seal this beast tight for a safe burn? It's big and I'd like to use thick brick too.
Will this thing keep us warm and more importantly alive? Willing to prep and babysit the thing
if necessary.
Thanks gang,
CheapMark
It's sold under a few names but I just got this model. Mama also wanted to
be able to cook on it and has much woodburning experience. We both liked the
price and rustic style of the thing. We've both wanted to burn every time we get a
winter (5 month) heating bill from 400-to 600 per month. We live in the country and
also have the forested side of the house stocked with dead tipovers ready to be sectioned.
I'm up to two cords cut/split/stacked now. Dunno the species but looks like the ash family.
Getting a safer stove isn't financially possible so we're going for it any way. We're dead-broke so to speak
after the bills get paid. This thing has to get us through the rest of this winter, period. Luckily
it's only a broke season in a lifetime and we can easily upgrade after recovering from this layoff.
(leap of faith n' switched careers at 48 years old. New job lays off first year employees)
On the positive side we have much to work with. I'm an iron foundryman by trade and can
take apart this thing before it's first firing. I'm going to clean up and straighten all of the seams.
I can fab most anything (no matter how ugly it comes out). I'm good, not great.
We're using NC wallboard to the ceiling, and similar base. We have to make this pig as safe as
possible and run it it least while an adult is home. (Just running down the heat bill will help.)
Please offer any real world usable tips. The searches I've done only have bashings to be read.
Can I seal this beast tight for a safe burn? It's big and I'd like to use thick brick too.
Will this thing keep us warm and more importantly alive? Willing to prep and babysit the thing
if necessary.
Thanks gang,
CheapMark
mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
All jokes aside, if that was my only choice to burn in I would cut the top off a 55 gallon drum and stick it inside for the added safety and burn it that way. Make some legs for the drum and a hole to port the exhaust through and line the bottom of the drum with sand.
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
Anything I have to say has nothing to do with any real world experience with the stove. I don't see why you couldn't use stove cement on any joints either by caulking over the existing seam or by actually taking the pieces apart and resetting.
From the descriptions given by users it sounds like the stove is unpredictable. If that's the case it makes sense to me to keep the loads on the smaller size and go for short hot burns where you have ample chance to keep your eye on it. Loading up for a long (overnight) burn sounds like a no no.
You've read about some of the issues the stove has so it will be up to you to take them to heart. That said all appropriate safety precautions should be close at hand. Since the stove is not easily controlled shutting down the air to control the fire and maintain safe stove temps may not be a possibility so I would want to be able to actually stop the burn. In that case I'd have some sand or a fire extinguisher (or both) smoke and CO detectors are also mandatory.
From the descriptions given by users it sounds like the stove is unpredictable. If that's the case it makes sense to me to keep the loads on the smaller size and go for short hot burns where you have ample chance to keep your eye on it. Loading up for a long (overnight) burn sounds like a no no.
You've read about some of the issues the stove has so it will be up to you to take them to heart. That said all appropriate safety precautions should be close at hand. Since the stove is not easily controlled shutting down the air to control the fire and maintain safe stove temps may not be a possibility so I would want to be able to actually stop the burn. In that case I'd have some sand or a fire extinguisher (or both) smoke and CO detectors are also mandatory.
It's fine to be frugal as long as it's safe. We would have to see the installation to know what the issues are. What is being used for the chimney? Wallboard may be fire resistant, but it's not non-combustible. You'll need cement board for that. And that will not reduce the required 36" clearances to combustibles required. There are methods to do this that may use other available materials like sheetmetal if you have them available. The main thing is that it needs to have a 1" air gap behind it and open at top and bottom to let the air freely circulate behind it.
CheapBassTurd
Minister of Fire
Yes unfortunately.
We got the thing Black Friday, then started remodeling the living room. The room is
done now to the point of installing the stove. Two entire sheetrocks ripped out and
replaced with NC wallboard to the ceiling . One inch ceramic insulator/spacers between the nc board
and the studs. NC base underneath. The instructions stated we can move way in our
clearances with the NC walls, but now I've chosen to stay out near the 36" anyway even
with the fire-safe corner as a counter measure to flare ups.
Using the flashlight the base seams are perfect and the top needs help all over town.
The removable centerpiece and both burners had a sloppy fit. I reshaped the center
section, actually leveled all the edges. Fits very tight now. The burners and the grooves
they sit in have quite a few casting boogers to run out with the rat-tail file and some sandpaper.
That's next after I type this as they wobble and don't drop down snug. The door fits well and
compresses the gasket when latching it down.
We're running 6" straight pipe for thorough cleaning, of course insulated upper sections.
Two fire extinguishers on site, and what I thunk was a cool idea: Garden hose with trigger
sprayer under the trapdoor to the crawlspace. It can be yanked up and connected to the
washing machine water hookup in less than a minute. Indoor storage guarantees no frozen
cloggage. Hopefully we could have a fire out by the time the 911 dispatcher even answers
the phone.
Thank you again,
CheapButSafeIHope
We got the thing Black Friday, then started remodeling the living room. The room is
done now to the point of installing the stove. Two entire sheetrocks ripped out and
replaced with NC wallboard to the ceiling . One inch ceramic insulator/spacers between the nc board
and the studs. NC base underneath. The instructions stated we can move way in our
clearances with the NC walls, but now I've chosen to stay out near the 36" anyway even
with the fire-safe corner as a counter measure to flare ups.
Using the flashlight the base seams are perfect and the top needs help all over town.
The removable centerpiece and both burners had a sloppy fit. I reshaped the center
section, actually leveled all the edges. Fits very tight now. The burners and the grooves
they sit in have quite a few casting boogers to run out with the rat-tail file and some sandpaper.
That's next after I type this as they wobble and don't drop down snug. The door fits well and
compresses the gasket when latching it down.
We're running 6" straight pipe for thorough cleaning, of course insulated upper sections.
Two fire extinguishers on site, and what I thunk was a cool idea: Garden hose with trigger
sprayer under the trapdoor to the crawlspace. It can be yanked up and connected to the
washing machine water hookup in less than a minute. Indoor storage guarantees no frozen
cloggage. Hopefully we could have a fire out by the time the 911 dispatcher even answers
the phone.
Thank you again,
CheapButSafeIHope
jatoxico
Minister of Fire
What is NC wallboard? What product? With a proper ventilated wall shield the stove can be as close as 12" to the wall. But if this wallboard is paper covered then stay at 36".
Last edited:
CheapBassTurd
Minister of Fire
I forgot I was dealing with experts.
Telling the average person we used non combustible walls would explain to them we're
not wanting to blow up. The walls and base were Christmas gifts from our parents so
we only asked the construction leader to go high quality. The spacers were then added
to the project to keep down stud temps.
Mama can take and post pics online quite easily and I'll be needing her help on that. I'll
get U guys, the real pros all pertinent info.
At the KLR site I co-moderate at, safety and brotherhood top the list. There is a good amount
of respect there too as we know our butts are on the line every time we leave the driveway.
I feel that I've found the same thing here and hope to absorb up all the useful I can, share when I
can, and our group knowledge gains from the experience of all.
I'll gather up product names, type, thickness, etc.
Making a fully closable ingate in case of emergency, but hope pre sealing the thing
will give some safe n' hot burns without a runaway taking over. A leaky stove is a fireball
waiting to happen so that's already getting addressed.
The piping is black coated stainless, kinda thin, probably 24 ga. The pipes are a 6 foot tube,
a 6 foot insulated section to go from ceiling to roof, one more three foot piece above
the shingles, and the cap. That's 15 ft from the stovetop. Probably 17 ft from the burn-deck
to the outlet in the cap. Total of about 5 feet above the roof before it outvents. That part isn't
done yet so changes can be made before the pipes and final wall spacing are done up.
I've learned enough already from you guys that I'm basically setting this up for the next stove.
This one's gonna be a mailbox too. LOL Thank you deeply for helping us make the best of
this thing and surviving during the process.
On a side note looks like zinc is in the piece too. NOT good for casting strength. Lower melt point
than iron and crack starter. Silicon is too low also for flexibility. (see Titanic rivets)
The steel plate on the ship was fine and the rivets sheared off being too brittle. That's
another weak point during cycling. (same thing when an iron engine block or heads crack from
uneven heating/cooling/ overheating) That's gray iron. Ductile can safely go hotter but this Chinese
casting is melted scrap and probably not even the same mix batch to batch. Scary stuff !!
I hope to bust off a chip and polish one side to get it under the microscope. I'm imagining a
martensitic mess. Grain going every which way, differing carbon shapes, Ugh. Just plain Ugh.
Thanks again. I'll get my info together and pics snapped.
I know between jack and crap about woodstoving and am taking seriously all input.
On the flip side I'll offer up what I can about the metals themselves, expansion rates,
whatever I can do to help.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeap
Telling the average person we used non combustible walls would explain to them we're
not wanting to blow up. The walls and base were Christmas gifts from our parents so
we only asked the construction leader to go high quality. The spacers were then added
to the project to keep down stud temps.
Mama can take and post pics online quite easily and I'll be needing her help on that. I'll
get U guys, the real pros all pertinent info.
At the KLR site I co-moderate at, safety and brotherhood top the list. There is a good amount
of respect there too as we know our butts are on the line every time we leave the driveway.
I feel that I've found the same thing here and hope to absorb up all the useful I can, share when I
can, and our group knowledge gains from the experience of all.
I'll gather up product names, type, thickness, etc.
Making a fully closable ingate in case of emergency, but hope pre sealing the thing
will give some safe n' hot burns without a runaway taking over. A leaky stove is a fireball
waiting to happen so that's already getting addressed.
The piping is black coated stainless, kinda thin, probably 24 ga. The pipes are a 6 foot tube,
a 6 foot insulated section to go from ceiling to roof, one more three foot piece above
the shingles, and the cap. That's 15 ft from the stovetop. Probably 17 ft from the burn-deck
to the outlet in the cap. Total of about 5 feet above the roof before it outvents. That part isn't
done yet so changes can be made before the pipes and final wall spacing are done up.
I've learned enough already from you guys that I'm basically setting this up for the next stove.
This one's gonna be a mailbox too. LOL Thank you deeply for helping us make the best of
this thing and surviving during the process.
On a side note looks like zinc is in the piece too. NOT good for casting strength. Lower melt point
than iron and crack starter. Silicon is too low also for flexibility. (see Titanic rivets)
The steel plate on the ship was fine and the rivets sheared off being too brittle. That's
another weak point during cycling. (same thing when an iron engine block or heads crack from
uneven heating/cooling/ overheating) That's gray iron. Ductile can safely go hotter but this Chinese
casting is melted scrap and probably not even the same mix batch to batch. Scary stuff !!
I hope to bust off a chip and polish one side to get it under the microscope. I'm imagining a
martensitic mess. Grain going every which way, differing carbon shapes, Ugh. Just plain Ugh.
Thanks again. I'll get my info together and pics snapped.
I know between jack and crap about woodstoving and am taking seriously all input.
On the flip side I'll offer up what I can about the metals themselves, expansion rates,
whatever I can do to help.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeap
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
If you really good at fabrication / metal work, go on craigs list and find a old used stove and rehab that, It's not worth taking a chance of loosing everything. If you find a used stove and have questions just post them on this site, there's an unspeakable volume of knowledge on this site, someone somewhere has already done this and is willing to share knowledge and experience.
CheapBassTurd
Minister of Fire
Thank you Kenny.
That's my plan having all summer to build up a tight unit.
We have to make the best of this thing for just a few months. No choice on the financials.
I'm jumpstarting my car to buy groceries instead of a battery. Future is bright on the cash but
currently very dim until after layoff.
We're going to never be gone while the thing is burning. Gonna babysit it. A few shorter burns
per day will drop the bill three hundred per month.
Got the top pieces levelled and they drop tight into place. Next is just dumb luck. Gotta friend
or three at the foundry that'll slip me a box of mud out the back door for a quick buck.(refractory lining)
The stuff lines the melting furnaces and pouring ladles. Takes weeks to thin and glow the sides, and
that's only where the bright yellow liquid hits the bottom and sides. At stove temps we should be fine.
the top 1/3 of the furnaces and ladles keep a perfect lining. The stuff is made by Unifrax I believe.
That's my plan having all summer to build up a tight unit.
We have to make the best of this thing for just a few months. No choice on the financials.
I'm jumpstarting my car to buy groceries instead of a battery. Future is bright on the cash but
currently very dim until after layoff.
We're going to never be gone while the thing is burning. Gonna babysit it. A few shorter burns
per day will drop the bill three hundred per month.
Got the top pieces levelled and they drop tight into place. Next is just dumb luck. Gotta friend
or three at the foundry that'll slip me a box of mud out the back door for a quick buck.(refractory lining)
The stuff lines the melting furnaces and pouring ladles. Takes weeks to thin and glow the sides, and
that's only where the bright yellow liquid hits the bottom and sides. At stove temps we should be fine.
the top 1/3 of the furnaces and ladles keep a perfect lining. The stuff is made by Unifrax I believe.
- Status
Similar threads
