Lessons learned from chimney liner install

[bluedogz]

I'm posting this as a quick resource, hopefully, for those considering a DIY chimney liner install. Anyone who has done same is welcome to add.

My input:
1) A flex liner is not "heavy", but is definitely heavier than it looks.
2) Even though the video shows one person doing the job, it's a minimum 2 person job.
3) Your flue is 13" wide, your liner is 6" wide. This does not mean you have 'plenty of room.'
4) The 'pulling cone' is expensive. Consider how you will pull the liner down the chimney.
- We did this by drilling a hole in the bottom of the tee and screwing in a 5/16" eye bolt, then tying 50' of rope to it and dropping the rope down the flue. In my case, the cone would have saved about 30 minutes of time by avoiding the joints between chimney tiles that I couldn't see. Itb would also have prevented the neighbors calling the police to report a raging Neanderthal on my roof.
5) "Flexible" is relative. A flex liner is not hard to bend or unbend, but having 2 people do it helps.
6) The video shows a guy doing the job from a ladder. Seriously... rent a lift. There is no replacement for having a stable platform to work from.
7) The Rockford 2-piece tee clicks together all nice and pretty in the video. Lies. Have furnace cement handy to fill the gaps.
8) Further re: the Rockford 2-piece tee- the clamp that holds the tee is almost exactly the same size as the tee itself, making it difficult to manipulate in the confined space of the thimble opening. Prepare to spend some time here.
9) Gloves, gloves, gloves. They make scalpels and razors out of stainless steel. 'Nuff said.

Ultimately, this is a job 2 able-bodied adults can do with planning and the proper tools. I didn't have to buy or borrow any tools that weren't in my homeowner's toolbox.

 

[tim1]

Good to know! I am hoping that when I install my Summit, I can hook into my stainless 8" 14' chimney. Dealer said it will work fine, only hiccup is the going thu the wall for 14". Will buy a 22 ga. adapter from my local dealer. Dealer said not to worry and he has been doing this for 30 years. Got some new learning coming. Hope not a liner! Tim I do own a lift though.

 

[EJL923]

thanks for the advice, i could use more like this. I am going to be helping my father try to put a 6" flex liner down a 8x8 flu. I wonder if this is even possible.

 

[Hogwildz]

thanks for the advice, i could use more like this. I am going to be helping my father try to put a 6" flex liner down a 8x8 flu. I wonder if this is even possible.

Possible, yes, PITA, YES, make sure the clay tiles ain't offest real bad at the seems anywhere. Knock any mortar ooze off at those joints if you can reach them. If liner get caught up, first thing to do is spin the liner. It ain't in there straight and if you spin it may clear the lip it is caught on. Is the 8x8 inside out outside.

 

[Hogwildz]

I'm posting this as a quick resource, hopefully, for those considering a DIY chimney liner install. Anyone who has done same is welcome to add.

My input:
1) A flex liner is not "heavy", but is definitely heavier than it looks. More bulky and awkward when your holding 5' and the other 25' is dangling in the air.
2) Even though the video shows one person doing the job, it's a minimum 2 person job. Agreed, but I did install mine by myself, Rigid is easier IMO.
3) Your flue is 13" wide, your liner is 6" wide. This does not mean you have 'plenty of room.' The room is there, the offset tiles and any ooze are what puts a frown on the clown.
4) The 'pulling cone' is expensive. Consider how you will pull the liner down the chimney. Always easier with a tapered end to go down. No hard edge to catch those mortar joints that "aren't there" LOL.
- We did this by drilling a hole in the bottom of the tee and screwing in a 5/16" eye bolt, then tying 50' of rope to it and dropping the rope down the flue. In my case, the cone would have saved about 30 minutes of time by avoiding the joints between chimney tiles that I couldn't see. Itb would also have prevented the neighbors calling the police to report a raging Neanderthal on my roof. Don't mess with a pissed Neanderthal ;-)
5) "Flexible" is relative. A flex liner is not hard to bend or unbend, but having 2 people do it helps. Flex is not as flexible as one would think. But def not like rigid.
6) The video shows a guy doing the job from a ladder. Seriously... rent a lift. There is no replacement for having a stable platform to work from. Step ladder optional!
7) The Rockford 2-piece tee clicks together all nice and pretty in the video. Lies. Have furnace cement handy to fill the gaps. Do that soon. Don't blow it off!
8) Further re: the Rockford 2-piece tee- the clamp that holds the tee is almost exactly the same size as the tee itself, making it difficult to manipulate in the confined space of the thimble opening. Prepare to spend some time here. Don't force the clamp to pull the T to the snout and strip the clamp gear. Especially when you have a bunch of crap built up on the inside of the thimble hole.
9) Gloves, gloves, gloves. They make scalpels and razors out of stainless steel. 'Nuff said. Learned that on the first & second ones done. Better now.

Ultimately, this is a job 2 able-bodied adults can do with planning and the proper tools. I didn't have to buy or borrow any tools that weren't in my homeowner's toolbox.

Some homeowners don't have crimpers etc. Someone needs to post a generic DIY tools needed list.

 

[EJL923]

Note sure, i was just estimating for discussions sake, im sure its something like 8.5 on the outside. It was a question i was going to post here because i knew it was going to be tight, and was wondering what others have experienced. My liner went down a large rectangular chimney which im sure would be much easier.

 

[Hogwildz]

8" outside is going to equate to just about 6" inside. So realistically, no, it ain't going.
Not unless it is uninsulated, and the tiles are dead straight, no off seams, no mortar ooze. None of which is happening, so my vote is...No, it ain't happening.
In this case you would have to try a 5" IMO. And that is still going to be a big PITA if if even goes.

 

[ddddddden]

Good tips, Blue. IME, the biggest problem is that the liner wants to curl, so the leading tip is going to scrape against one wall of the masonry flue, all the way down. . .so it will find any snag. I knew that I had a few misaligned flue tiles, but I didn't worry about it because the flue = 12 x 12". I thought I had plenty of room, but I didn't consider the curl of the liner. I thought the nose cone was for going through tight spaces and offsets, so I skipped the cone. I did have a rope on the end, but it was tied to a hose clamp around the liner. . .this was no help in getting the leading tip unstuck from the tile joints. I ended up poking a long 1x2 down, wedging it between the liner & flue tile, and then twisting the 1x2 to get the liner unstuck. So yeah, I think a nose cone would help to avoid getting stuck, and yeah, a helper is always good. Good writeup. Glad you got 'er done.

 

[ddddddden]

. . .and big pr0ps to Hogz on the assist! :cheese:

 

[ddddddden]

+1 on a 6" liner not going down a 6.xx" clay flue unless everything is perfect. Maybe bust out the clay tiles, but then insulation becomes mandatory, which puts you at 8+" O.D. I used InsulFlex, which is about as neat & tight as an insulated liner gets, and its 7.5" O.D.

 

[spirilis]

Hmm, so for Rigid liners might that be a little easier for a one-man to DIY? How does that work with say a 13x13 terra cotta flue?

Looks like you lay down the anchor plate up top and the upper support clamp, then get the tee and first section of pipe assembled, drop it in and tighten down the clamp to secure it, then add the next section and drill / rivet, loosen the clamp and drop a bit then retighten, add/drill/rivet the next section of pipe, etc?
So rigid liners are basically like thick/high quality single walled stovepipe just made of SS aye?

How are rigid liners typically insulated? To insulate it do you have to assemble it all beforehand and drop it down the flue first (that outta be insane trying to hoist a 20ft pipe wrapped in insulation over a roof to line it up and drop it down the flue) or do you rely on filling with perlite after the fact?

edit:
Looks like Simpson Duraliner rigid would be the ticket for my install, as it's preinsulated and looks relatively straightforward to send down the flue. Sounds better than trying to futz with a flex liner...

 

[BrotherBart]

6" flex ain't going in a six inch flue lately. The nominal OD of a six inch flex liner is 6 1/4".

 

[bluedogz]

[to buy or borrow any tools that weren't in my homeowner's toolbox.

Some homeowners don't have crimpers etc. Someone needs to post a generic DIY tools needed list.[/quote]

Stuff we used to cover all the crazy stuff that happened, in no particular order:

Screwdrivers, flat & Phillips
Drill, bits capable of drilling metal
Sheet metal screws, #8 & #10
Ratchet & socket set
Tin snips
Hacksaw
Sawzall (sorry... reciprocating saw)
Crimping pliers (Home Cheapo, air conditioning/ductwork section)
Silicone caulk (tube or gun, doesn't matter much)
Rope, 1/2", 50' long
Donuts
Chili
Neanderthal

 

[stircrazy]

Hmm, so for Rigid liners might that be a little easier for a one-man to DIY? How does that work with say a 13x13 terra cotta flue?

Looks like you lay down the anchor plate up top and the upper support clamp, then get the tee and first section of pipe assembled, drop it in and tighten down the clamp to secure it, then add the next section and drill / rivet, loosen the clamp and drop a bit then retighten, add/drill/rivet the next section of pipe, etc?
So rigid liners are basically like thick/high quality single walled stovepipe just made of SS aye?

How are rigid liners typically insulated? To insulate it do you have to assemble it all beforehand and drop it down the flue first (that outta be insane trying to hoist a 20ft pipe wrapped in insulation over a roof to line it up and drop it down the flue) or do you rely on filling with perlite after the fact?

edit:
Looks like Simpson Duraliner rigid would be the ticket for my install, as it's preinsulated and looks relatively straightforward to send down the flue. Sounds better than trying to futz with a flex liner...

I found my flex liner very easy to install. 1 hour and it was done with only myself. I only installed a 15 foot liner, and I had to go to a 5" because the inside of my flue tiles was 6X9. the hard part I had was on the insert install (myself only again) but this was because I only had 4" of space on either side and 1/3rd of an inch above the insert.. getting the apliance conector in a rivited took 3 hours alone.

Steve

 

[Hogwildz]

Hmm, so for Rigid liners might that be a little easier for a one-man to DIY? How does that work with say a 13x13 terra cotta flue? Did it by myself here, so answer is yes. I think my flue was 13' x 13" also.

Looks like you lay down the anchor plate up top and the upper support clamp, then get the tee and first section of pipe assembled, drop it in and tighten down the clamp to secure it, then add the next section and drill / rivet, loosen the clamp and drop a bit then retighten, add/drill/rivet the next section of pipe, etc? Yes, but I found tightening and loosening the clamp was a PITA as well as trying to tighten while supporting the pipe with one hand and tighten with the other. I used 12 gauge romex wire and wrap it around and used it to choke the pipe as I tied it to the ladder I was working on.
So rigid liners are basically like thick/high quality single walled stovepipe just made of SS aye? S.S. Inner, galvanized outer shell with insulation between. You can get ss. with s.s. outer shell, btu its more expensive, and not needed unless outside the old flue. I went galvanized outer shell the entire way up. Fine after 6 seasons.

How are rigid liners typically insulated? To insulate it do you have to assemble it all beforehand and drop it down the flue first (that outta be insane trying to hoist a 20ft pipe wrapped in insulation over a roof to line it up and drop it down the flue) or do you rely on filling with perlite after the fact? The Simpson Dualiner I used was preinsulated between the inner and outer shells.
Done deal.
edit:
Looks like Simpson Duraliner rigid would be the ticket for my install, as it's preinsulated and looks relatively straightforward to send down the flue. Sounds better than trying to futz with a flex liner...
Worth every penny! Cleans easier than flex also. If your going into a fireplace, you will need a section of flex at the bottom to get through the smoke shelf.