Lessons learned in choosing a splitter and saw

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John_M

Minister of Fire
Dec 10, 2008
614
Central NY
Had an interesting experience with a splitter on Tuesday and with a chainsaw today.

Tuesday: A friend drops a 3' diameter dead ash on his farm. He bucks the logs with his Stihl Farm Boss w/20" bar and we are ready to split. We are using his tractor mounted three point hitch splitter. We were able to reduce some of the rounds by splitting around the outside of the log. The splitter would not even begin to split some of the other rounds. We tried splitting with full wedge, half wedge, aligning the wedge with existing splits, etc. and none of these techniques worked. We did not try cutting a 4" - 6" deep cut across the rounds and then starting the wedge into that slot. We just canceled the splitting session and he moved the rounds back to his house for storage. I think he will wait until this fall when the logs will be drier and perhaps easier to split.

Within the month I will be ordering a new Iron and Oak H/V 26 ton splitter and would like to try this on those same rounds. I will be splitting only for myself and a few close friends so some would argue that a 26 ton splitter is overkill. However, the lesson I learned on Tuesday is that a splitter should be sized mainly by the size and gnarliness of most of the wood you will be splitting and not just by the amount.

About a month ago this same friend dropped a 3.5' to 4' diameter dead ash in my yard. He then bucked everything down to about 2' diameter. Today: I started using my new Stihl MS250 w/18" bar that I purchased last week. I figured this saw would cut anything I was interested in tackling:wrong! The saw was great for cutting up to about 12" rounds. It performed perfectly at the task it was designed to perform. However, when I started getting into the 18" lower branches of that tree the saw began to bog down and smoke like the dickens. I began the cuts @ full rpm and didn't force the saw. The chain was very sharp and I let the weight of the saw do the work. I was used to using a Stihl 036 many years ago in another life so I was familiar with what that saw could do. I assumed the MS250 would do the same:wrong! The lesson I learned today is that a person should have two saws if he is going to be cutting trees up to 4' diameter. One saw (MS250 w/18" bar) for the small to medium wood and another (MS361? w/20" and 25" bars) for the bigger wood.

I can't afford another saw at this point but I can see a MS361 or similar in my future. I was hoping to avoid this purchase but I guess a guy cannot have too many useful tools, can he?

Something else I learned today is that I can still get a chain very sharp by using only the correct size file w/handle and following the guide marks on the cutters. This is the way I sharpened the 036 many years ago in Alaska and I was afraid I might have lost the touch. God, it felt good getting back into the wood again today!

John_M
 
John take an angel grinder and knock down the rakers a couple of thousands you probably have safety chain.

As far a the 3PH splitter not working, HUH? do you check the Hydro fluid level? Was the engine idle advanced enough to turn the PTO pump sufficiency?

Ash is probably the easiest splitting wood we have around here.
 
Your typical 3pt splitter will use the tractors hydraulics which run at a lower pressure than the typical hydro pump on a commercial splitter. Lower flow also. Because of the lower flow, the designers often use a small ram which means less force and also the lower pressure means less force.

They can be weak.

If you buy the super cool PTO hydro pump that cost more than 400$ then you also need a seperate hydro fluid reservoir and it makes the 3pt splitter too expensive when compared to the commercial stand alone.
 
Savageactor and highbeam, we did not check the fluid level but we did increase the tractor's rpm. That made no difference. This 3 point has always had a very slow recycle time. I never timed it but it appears to be about 16-18 seconds. I'll mention the fluid level to my buddy but will have to wait. The splitter has made him NOT a happy camper right now. It has always split large ash rounds in the past but we almost always split during the fall season.

Big_Redd, you are right. It will take a few months but I will have a MS361 or similar saw just for these situations.

John_M
 
How's the saying go? "There's no replacement for displacment!"
 
As for the tractor, you might look around and see if there is an adjustable relief valve. This allows the hydraulic fluid to bypass the cylinder as the pressure rises. It could be set too low or malfunctioning and not allowing you to develop full pressure in the splitter. I would think a 3hp briggs & stratton engine would split ash. A tractor should chew through that no problem.

As for the saw - if you mean 'new' as in brand new, you might want to take it a bit easy for the break-in period. If the saw is smoking (assuming you mean the exhaust, not the bar or some other part) that is OK for the break-in period, but it's a sign the carb is running too rich or too much oil mix in the gas. Modern 2-stroke engines with the proper carb adjustments and oil mix should put out very little visible smoke - if any at all.

I ran a couple 'rich' tanks of gas through my Husky for some easy cutting to break it in, then leaned out the carb and it was like adding a second cylinder to the saw.
 
John, it does not surprise me at the slowness of the tractor splitter but it still should have split the ash very easily. Just yesterday I split one of those 36" diameter rounds. I simply put it on the block and the ram went in about 1" before I raised it because the block had already split. It was the same for every split. Push the ram about 1" into the wood and the wood splits open. Not too many species of wood split easier than ash.

btw, my splitter is a 20 ton with a 5hp B&S;engine. We also split a good deal of elm and in our many years with this splitter we've found exactly one piece that it did not split. Perhaps I could have split it by turning and trying in different spots but I simply threw it on the brush pile and forgot about it.

As for the saw, you might consider a 16" bar on that saw. As for the smoking, that one gets me. Why was it smoking? Was it the saw or the chain? As for the size, look in my signature line. That is the saw I used to cut that 36" diameter tree!

You are also right about the right sized file. Another way is using a dremel type sharpener. I went to that when my hands got so bad it just hurt too much to sharpen with a file. Wish I'd have bought it sooner.
 
It sounds like the I&O;26 ton splitter would serve you well.

Regarding the saw, it was certainly not designed or intended to cut 4' trees! In fact, that's a great way to burn up your new saw, so don't even attempt it! Take a look at your clutch, you might have already toasted it... Your 250 is designed "to cut through small limbs and trees" according to Stihl, I would guess that anything over 12" or 14" would really be taxing it.

If you plan on cutting 3' to 4' trees, you probably want/need more saw than a 036/361. In fact, I have a 036 and I wouldn't even think of pulling it out for work of this size (unless you wanted to just take small bites with it). It can be done, but it will be very slow going and really tax the saw/clutch. About the largest bar the 036/361 (similar saws) will pull is a 25", but I personally feel anything more than about 20"-22" of wood is about all this saw wants without really over taxing it. So if you're going to buy a larger saw just for big trees, the 361 would certainly not be my first choice.

For wood this size, 70cc would be the minimum I would even consider, and even that is undersized. This size wood is better suited for 85cc to 120cc saws. These saws are larger, heavier, and much more expensive. If you're on a budget, and want to buy new, your best bet is a Dolmar 7900 with a 28" bar on it. This saw is an 80cc saw, lightest in its category, and also the cheapest at about $650. The ideal saw for this type of work would probably be something like the MS660, but it will run you about $1100 or so.

You might want to consider a used saw if money is a concern, especial if it's something you're not going to use everyday. For example, I have a Husky 2100 I just listed on AS for $300. This is a 100cc saw with a 36" bar and it's designed to do the kind of work you're taking about. It's hard to find this kind of power and cc's for little money. But with used you're not going to get a polished saw with a warranty. Regardless, this is the direction I would go if I were you since it probably wouldn't be needed all that often and is easier on the bank account.

Either way, don't torture your little 250 on this big wood, you'll destroy it. If you purchase a 361 for tackling 3' to 4' wood, you'll be disappointed as well, it's not designed for doing this either. You need a big saw for big trees...

Edit: I should also add that you probably want to use skip tooth chain on that really big wood if your saw is undersized. Skip tooth has a third less teeth and will not work the saw as hard. And as you know, sharp chain is your friend!
 
Corey and Dennis, My original post indicated an 18" bar. That is incorrect. The bar is 16". The saw is "brand new" and I may have overworked it a bit but I did go to smaller wood after it began to bog down and smoke in the heavy stuff. I'll continue working on the small to medium pieces to break-in the saw a little more before I move up to the larger wood. Will probably wait until I purchase a bigger saw before I return to the pieces >12" diameter. And, I believe it was the exhaust that was smoking; not the chain, bar or clutch.

Wet1, The nearest Dolmar dealer to my house is about 1.5 hours each way. I've read so many good comments about the Dolmar7900 I certainly would like to try one. One of my main considerations now is my ability to handle a large saw at my age. I am 70 years old/young and am recovering from a Stem Cell Transplant. I feel terrific and have lots of energy but as we all know, a large saw can easily "get away from you" and I do not feel confident at my age how well I could handle that.

I'll have to do a little more thinking and research into a larger saw.

Thanks to all of you for the recommendations, diagnostics and support.

Best Wishes,
John
 
John_M said:
... Will probably wait until I purchase a bigger saw before I return to the pieces >12" diameter. And, I believe it was the exhaust that was smoking; not the chain, bar or clutch. ...

...


Best Wishes,
John

I'd probably run a couple tanks of gas through as a break-in, then tune the carb per the mfr spec, or take it to a dealer and have them tune it. Sounds like it is running rich (which is not necessarily a bad thing during break-in), but there could be much more power to be had. Also double check your gas:eek:il ratio maybe it is off?

Either way, looks like your Stihl is rated @3.1 hp which is the same as my Husky 350. And I'm using mine w/ 18" bar for slicing through hedge. Either way, it seems like a decent saw...probably won't win any 'hot saw' competition but should have decent power for most needs.
 
Corey, As you suggest, I will limit my cutting to the small wood for a couple of tanks of fuel. Then readjust the carburetor per the owner's manual's very clear instructions. I agree that having the carb set a little rich from the factory is probably a good idea. The gas:eek:il ratio is as close to 50:1 as a person can achieve using typical measuring devices. It also deserves mentioning that I use only Stihl 2 cycle and bar oil in the saw. I also use only Sunoco premium gasoline.

I think I am doing all those things right. We'll have to see what happens after the two tanks of gas and carburetor adjustment.

Best wishes,
John
 
John, it sounds like you are treating your saw right, other than overworking it maybe... :)

As to the Dolmar, I can say that I've heard rumors to the effect that if you really want one, there are still some dealers that will find ways to get one to you, even if Dolmar is trying to stop distance selling. While you are clearly the only one that can judge your abilities, I can say the 7900 is amazingly light for it's size - it's about the same as the 60-70 cc H&S;models. I usually run a 20" bar on mine for most cutting, and find it is actually easier to use than my 36cc Pull-on w/ a 12" bar - The Dolmar is heavier, but I don't have to reach out as far with it.

I actually spent some time today cutting with a friend's Stihl 440's (IIRC, that's about a 60cc saw?) w/ a 16" bar - it didn't feel much lighter, though it did cut pretty well.

Gooserider
 
Gooserider and others, Wait 'til you hear this: I did a "dealer" search on Dolmar's site last evening and my nearest dealer is <5 miles from my front door. The owner of this tractor/implement dealer can sometimes be a real grouch but his sales and service policies seem fair. He usually has any needed parts in stock and he does not take credit cards so he is able to keep his prices lower than many others.

I am going there this morning to check out the Dolmars, specifically the 7900.

Within a month or so I will post a summary of my "second saw" purchase and how the Iron and Oak Horizontal/Vertical 26 ton splitter handled the rounds that were unsplittable with my buddy's three point tractor mount. I had lunch with him and his family yesterday and he seemed to be looking forward to using the Iron and Oak on those large rounds of ash.

John_M
 
Sounds great... Just as a point of reference, check out the prices that Amick's is charging for that saw, it may give you some deal making leverage.

Gooserider
 
John_M said:
Had an interesting experience with a splitter on Tuesday and with a chainsaw today.

Tuesday: A friend drops a 3' diameter dead ash on his farm. He bucks the logs with his Stihl Farm Boss w/20" bar and we are ready to split. We are using his tractor mounted three point hitch splitter. We were able to reduce some of the rounds by splitting around the outside of the log. The splitter would not even begin to split some of the other rounds. We tried splitting with full wedge, half wedge, aligning the wedge with existing splits, etc. and none of these techniques worked. We did not try cutting a 4" - 6" deep cut across the rounds and then starting the wedge into that slot. We just canceled the splitting session and he moved the rounds back to his house for storage. I think he will wait until this fall when the logs will be drier and perhaps easier to split.

Within the month I will be ordering a new Iron and Oak H/V 26 ton splitter and would like to try this on those same rounds. I will be splitting only for myself and a few close friends so some would argue that a 26 ton splitter is overkill. However, the lesson I learned on Tuesday is that a splitter should be sized mainly by the size and gnarliness of most of the wood you will be splitting and not just by the amount.

About a month ago this same friend dropped a 3.5' to 4' diameter dead ash in my yard. He then bucked everything down to about 2' diameter. Today: I started using my new Stihl MS250 w/18" bar that I purchased last week. I figured this saw would cut anything I was interested in tackling:wrong! The saw was great for cutting up to about 12" rounds. It performed perfectly at the task it was designed to perform. However, when I started getting into the 18" lower branches of that tree the saw began to bog down and smoke like the dickens. I began the cuts @ full rpm and didn't force the saw. The chain was very sharp and I let the weight of the saw do the work. I was used to using a Stihl 036 many years ago in another life so I was familiar with what that saw could do. I assumed the MS250 would do the same:wrong! The lesson I learned today is that a person should have two saws if he is going to be cutting trees up to 4' diameter. One saw (MS250 w/18" bar) for the small to medium wood and another (MS361? w/20" and 25" bars) for the bigger wood.

I can't afford another saw at this point but I can see a MS361 or similar in my future. I was hoping to avoid this purchase but I guess a guy cannot have too many useful tools, can he?

Something else I learned today is that I can still get a chain very sharp by using only the correct size file w/handle and following the guide marks on the cutters. This is the way I sharpened the 036 many years ago in Alaska and I was afraid I might have lost the touch. God, it felt good getting back into the wood again today!

John_M

John,

I just checked out the prices on Iron and Oak splitters. I see they are priced significantly higher than a similar Speeco that I was looking at (22T from Fleet Farm for $1,000). This was the first I had heard of I&O;, are they much better than other splitters on the market? Thanks! Dean
 
Dean, I purchased the Iron and Oak for seven reasons: 1) When I looked at the splitter I was impressed with the overall quality (wedge, ram, controls, welds, easy access to controls, etc.) of the unit; 2) I want a splitter that can operate in both the horizontal and vertical positions. The I and O are so perfectly balanced that one can lift it into the vertical position with one easy hand; 3) My local dealer is outstanding and was able to work with me on price; 4) The splitter has a 9 hp Honda GX270 engine with electric start; 5) The fluid filter is readily accessible and the filters are available on the internet, at NAPA and other stores; 6) Except for the Honda engine, the entire splitter is made in USA; 7) Many people would agree that in all of the tools we use there is a category called "the best". The tools in this category tend to be built better, work better, work longer, require fewer repairs and less maintenance, and show a greater pride of workmanship than most others. It is my opinion that of all the splitters commonly used in America, Iron and Oak, American and Timberwolf are the three brands of splitter in this category. It is expected that others will have opinions contrary too mine and differences of opinion should be encouraged. These three brands also happen to be made in America. They also are probably the most expensive. As a functional comparison, the Iron and Oak can be lifted to the vertical position by a child. The Timberwolf requires one very strong man to lift it to the vertical position. I could not do it alone. I didn't try the American brand for this test. Because most of my splitting is done alone, this feature is very important to me.

My research into service availability and pricing of the three brands with local dealers showed Iron and Oak to be the winner. My splitter will come fully assembled, all fluids filled and pre-tested before I pick it up.

Best wishes in your decision.

John_M
 
John, thanks for the detailed reply! Now you have me thinking.... :)
 
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