Liner and Damper question

[Coyoterun]

Looking and reading up on liners and I think I'm ready to go with a 316Ti Easy Flex Kit with 1/4 inch insulation blanket. We'll probably only be using this liner for 10-12 years so it didn't seem worth it to spend the extra for a heavy flex. This will be a 6" ID liner just under 30' long. It will (hopefully) be hooking up my new Ideal Steel with a 45* elbow off the IS, 30" of stove pipe, and then a 90* elbow into the liner T. (can I attach a 45* elbow directly to the IS, or does it need a few inches of vertical straight pipe first?)

Can I expect 15 years of life out of that liner, or do I need to go with heavy liner?

Is that going to be too much draft for the IS? Last night, with the temps below zero, I pulled the plug off the hole in the chimney to check the draft. It felt about like a giant shop vac the way that 60* basement air was roaring in. I wonder if I need to install a key damper into my stove pipe for nights like this or if the three elbows will slow it down enough.

 

[bholler]

I'm ready to go with a 316Ti Easy Flex Kit with 1/4 inch insulation blanket.

!/4" blanket is not enough you need 1/2" blanket.

Can I expect 15 years of life out of that liner, or do I need to go with heavy liner?

I would say as long as you run the stove correctly and clean it correctly yes you should get 15 years. But you could also destroy it in a year or two if you dont do those things.

I wonder if I need to install a key damper into my stove pipe for nights like this

I would

 

[Coyoterun]

I'm a little concerned about getting the liner down the chimney. It's mostly a 9"X9" ID, but a lot of places are more like 8.5"x8.5" and there's a 12 inch offset. A 1/2 inch blanket makes the liner OD about 7 3/4", doesn't it? How well will that pull through?

 

[edthesweep]

is the chimney tile lined?

 

[edthesweep]

it doesn't sound it at that size.(tile lined)
That liner is fine - it should come with forever guarantee, plus you dont need 316, 304 is cheaper and all you need for wood burning. a pre-insulated liner is much easier to install but either way you may need to break into the chimney to get around that offset. how old is the chimney?

 

[Coyoterun]

The chimney is just a brick square. No existing liner.

 

[Coyoterun]

There are some bad stories about pre-insulated liners on this site, so I was going to stay away from them. As far as I know, the chimney is original to the house, built around 1900.

 

[bholler]

There are some bad stories about pre-insulated liners on this site, so I was going to stay away from them.

Why is that there is nothing wrong with pre insulated at all.

That liner is fine - it should come with forever guarantee,

yes but that guarantee does not cover damage caused by chimney fire improper cleaning or any of the other comon things that would cause a liner to fail. They are pretty pointless. You are absolutely right about 304 vs 316. But heavy wall is absolutly much more durable. But if they are only looking for 15 yrs light wall should be just fine.

 

[Coyoterun]

I had read this thread and thought that all the pre-insulated were like that: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/in-need-of-a-new-liner-suggestions.157186/

If you can refer me to a quality pre-insulated liner I would greatly appreciate it. It would surely be easier to get down the chimney.

And I'm really only expecting to use this liner for 8-10 years before remodeling or moving, but things don't always work out as planned that way. It won't be more than 15 years tho.

 

[edthesweep]

I had read this thread and thought that all the pre-insulated were like that: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/in-need-of-a-new-liner-suggestions.157186/

If you can refer me to a quality pre-insulated liner I would greatly appreciate it. It would surely be easier to get down the chimney.

And I'm really only expecting to use this liner for 8-10 years before remodeling or moving, but things don't always work out as planned that way. It won't be more than 15 years tho.

olympia chimney supply
might need to act like you are a professional company though
pre insulated forever flex

 

[edthesweep]

Why is that there is nothing wrong with pre insulated at all.


yes but that guarantee does not cover damage caused by chimney fire improper cleaning or any of the other comon things that would cause a liner to fail. They are pretty pointless. You are absolutely right about 304 vs 316. But heavy wall is absolutly much more durable. But if they are only looking for 15 yrs light wall should be just fine.

exactly.15 years properly used and maintained = no prob

 

[begreen]

I had read this thread and thought that all the pre-insulated were like that: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/in-need-of-a-new-liner-suggestions.157186/

If you can refer me to a quality pre-insulated liner I would greatly appreciate it. It would surely be easier to get down the chimney.

And I'm really only expecting to use this liner for 8-10 years before remodeling or moving, but things don't always work out as planned that way. It won't be more than 15 years tho.

In the linked thread, that's not pre-insulated liner. it is 2ply smoothwall.

 

[edthesweep]

I had read this thread and thought that all the pre-insulated were like that: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/in-need-of-a-new-liner-suggestions.157186/

If you can refer me to a quality pre-insulated liner I would greatly appreciate it. It would surely be easier to get down the chimney.

And I'm really only expecting to use this liner for 8-10 years before remodeling or moving, but things don't always work out as planned that way. It won't be more than 15 years tho.

i haven't read whole thing yet but from the pics thats an old style double wall smooth wall liner. you don't need smooth wall but the newer smooth walls are made differently anyway. pre-insulated or not makes no difference in itself as to the type of original liner thats on the inside. For 15yrs a light flex 304 pre-insulated properly maintained will be fine. just sweep it with plastic or poly brush annually

 

[bholler]

I had read this thread and thought that all the pre-insulated were like that:

That is not pre insulated that is 2 ply smooth wall liner it is junk. You can get most different types of liners in preinsulated for your application I would just use plain old light wall liner.

 

[Coyoterun]

So, something like this is good?: http://www.discountchimneysupply.com/pre-insulated-6-in-liner.html It'll be tight but that shouldn't catch as bad as the mesh on an insulation kit.

 

[bholler]

i haven't read whole thing yet but from the pics thats an old style double wall smooth wall liner. you don't need smooth wall but the newer smooth walls are made differently anyway.

Nope they are still the same crap construction that they always have been. unless you are talking about heavy wall or mid weight liners that are smooth wall.

 

[bholler]

So, something like this is good?: http://www.discountchimneysupply.com/pre-insulated-6-in-liner.html It'll be tight but that shouldn't catch as bad as the mesh on an insulation kit.

Yes that is the olympia liner he was referring to it will work for you just fine.

 

[Coyoterun]

btw, Thanks for the replies. I want to get a good setup, but I can't break the bank either.

 

[edthesweep]

Nope they are still the same crap construction that they always have been. unless you are talking about heavy wall or mid weight liners that are smooth wall.

Yea im talking about heavy wall or hybrid. still smooth on inside but not two ply with that paper thin flap overlapping on the inside

 

[edthesweep]

So, something like this is good?: http://www.discountchimneysupply.com/pre-insulated-6-in-liner.html It'll be tight but that shouldn't catch as bad as the mesh on an insulation kit.

exactly what you need

 

[bholler]

Yea im talking about heavy wall or hybrid. still smooth on inside but not two ply with that paper thin flap overlapping on the inside

In that case yes. But that other crap is still being sold by quite a few manufacturers. And people buy it thinking it is an upgrade from light wall.

 

[edthesweep]

In that case yes. But that other crap is still being sold by quite a few manufacturers. And people buy it thinking it is an upgrade from light wall.

yea its terrible.i never liked it

 

[bholler]

yea its terrible.i never liked it

We installed a couple of them and have since pulled them and replaced them with better stuff at our cost on most of them.

 

[edthesweep]

We installed a couple of them and have since pulled them and replaced them with better stuff at our cost on most of them.

I saw that. in the days before hybrid i never needed it luckily and would go with rigid when I needed the extra 20% for gas appliances. Random but have you tried the smartphone app "pitch gauge" ? its awesome when u need to know roof pitch for flashings or custom chase covers!

 

[edthesweep]

We installed a couple of them and have since pulled them and replaced them with better stuff at our cost on most of them.

I forget the company now but they sent me a free sample to try and get me to use them instead of olympia (has black and yellow tape on it) and i knew then i never wanted to use it lol