Lookie what I have....NIELS!!!

[Woodcutter Tom]

Check out my stash of Northern Idaho Energy Logs. Not quite the amount that @BKVP had last year, but I bet nobody else in the Midwest has any.
My brother visited his son in Bellingham WA. over thanksgiving and brought me back 24 pieces. (@ 8 lbs each = 192 lbs) They cost $1.59 each there.
I am not quite sure how I will use them. Thinking of mixing one in with Oak and Hickory when the weather is very cold...January/February.
They are 13 inches long. I mostly run N-S in my stove and because of it's size I cut my wood to 11" long. I'll chop a few inches off the NIELS when I try that. Might also try E-W at full length with other splits/stringers underneath. Should be fun.

 

[begreen]

They look pretty light colored to be NIELs but maybe it's just the lighting or this batch had less linen. Generally, they are dark brown on the outside. You'll know after burning a couple. He got a good price on them. Some places are selling them for $3.50 a piece here.



I ran them in our F400 which is an E/W loader. They pack a lot of BTUs.

Northern Idaho Energy Logs

Northern Idaho Energy Logs Compressed log fuel wiki This wiki is for reporting compressed wood log results. Please use this format and include all specifics in future additions. Copy this wiki and paste into a new one to create another review...

www.hearth.com

 

[all night moe]

I once read of a fellow making his own version. He was a carpet installer and had lots of 4'' cardboard tubing. He'd cut them to 16'' long pieces and fill them with sawdust mixed with WVO into a paste. Said they burned hot.

I have 2-3 gallons of WVO and two 5gal pails of dry sawdust. Was thinking of approaching a carpet guy for tubing, and making some myself. Would be nice to have on the really cold nights for a blast of heat mixed in with high BTU splits. Those dense splits always take a bit, normally, to get going.

 

[BKVP]

Check out my stash of Northern Idaho Energy Logs. Not quite the amount that @BKVP had last year, but I bet nobody else in the Midwest has any.
My brother visited his son in Bellingham WA. over thanksgiving and brought me back 24 pieces. (@ 8 lbs each = 192 lbs) They cost $1.59 each there.
I am not quite sure how I will use them. Thinking of mixing one in with Oak and Hickory when the weather is very cold...January/February.
They are 13 inches long. I mostly run N-S in my stove and because of it's size I cut my wood to 11" long. I'll chop a few inches off the NIELS when I try that. Might also try E-W at full length with other splits/stringers underneath. Should be fun.

View attachment 320114

Do NOT load more than two! And I am impressed by your brother hauling them back for you. Next time, send him with a trailer and score a couple of skids! I agree with BeGreen, they do look very light in color.....But I have seen some pretty wide color range depending upon how long they sit. Our local dealer for those products stacks them outside their building it the hot sun. They get pretty light in color for sure. Keep us updated on the performance,

BKVP

 

[BKVP]

I once read of a fellow making his own version. He was a carpet installer and had lots of 4'' cardboard tubing. He'd cut them to 16'' long pieces and fill them with sawdust mixed with WVO into a paste. Said they burned hot.

I have 2-3 gallons of WVO and two 5gal pails of dry sawdust. Was thinking of approaching a carpet guy for tubing, and making some myself. Would be nice to have on the really cold nights for a blast of heat mixed in with high BTU splits. Those dense splits always take a bit, normally, to get going.

If you plan on doing this, I can share when I toured their production facility, they coat the machines in vegetable oil. That is the sheen or gloss you see on their logs. You could do the same with some 4" pvc and that way you could build and adapter, add it to your hydraulic splitter. Now, you can compress the material much more and get more energy per log. I can share that from feedstock, the MC is the most critical part of the recipe for making logs that adhere and stay together when burning.

The log manufacturer in Fairbanks area had this as an issue. When exposed to combustion, their logs would expand like those worms we burned as kids on the fourth of July.

Sounds like a fun project and I know around here the cabinet shops would LOVE people to haul off their sawdust. The only issue is not to get MDF/PLY or other remnant materials that could harm your stove of the air quality.

BKVP

 

[all night moe]

If you plan on doing this, I can share when I toured their production facility, they coat the machines in vegetable oil. That is the sheen or gloss you see on their logs. You could do the same with some 4" pvc and that way you could build and adapter, add it to your hydraulic splitter. Now, you can compress the material much more and get more energy per log. I can share that from feedstock, the MC is the most critical part of the recipe for making logs that adhere and stay together when burning.

The log manufacturer in Fairbanks area had this as an issue. When exposed to combustion, their logs would expand like those worms we burned as kids on the fourth of July.

Sounds like a fun project and I know around here the cabinet shops would LOVE people to haul off their sawdust. The only issue is not to get MDF/PLY or other remnant materials that could harm your stove of the air quality.

BKVP

Some valuable info here.
Thanks

 

[begreen]

The log manufacturer in Fairbanks area had this as an issue. When exposed to combustion, their logs would expand like those worms we burned as kids on the fourth of July.

Indeed, not all compressed wood products are good. That is the nature of most knockoffs. They lack sufficient hydraulic pressure to tightly bind the lignens in the wood. When you burn them they expand like crazy. I've ony seen two processes that make a good compressed sawdust log, NIELs and HomeFire Prest-Logs, but in testing you may have seen more.

 

[BKVP]

Indeed, not all compressed wood products are good. That is the nature of most knockoffs. They lack sufficient hydraulic pressure to tightly bind the lignens in the wood. When you burn them they expand like crazy. I've ony seen two processes that make a good compressed sawdust log, NIELs and HomeFire Prest-Logs, but in testing you may have seen more.

Many more. And often, the lack of capitol and infrastructure results in a poor performing product.

BKVP

 

[NHWS]

I can also get them here for $380 per pallet of 240 logs ($1.59/log), not including tax. There's more than one place selling them at that price, and one of them would deliver without an extra charge.

240 logs * 68K BTU each is 16,320,000 BTU. NG is currently around $1.36 / therm (roughly 100,000 BTU). In this area and ignoring the not-large difference in heating efficiency between a NG furnace and a BK, the NG equivalent cost to a pallet of NIELS is around $222.

I like the idea of NIELS, and have considered them as a backup heat source for emergencies. But at PNW energy costs they are too expensive for routine use.

OTOH, there is a small mountain of free sawdust ("take my sawdust - please!") available a few minutes away. It might be worth a weekend of experimenting with it, a peice of sturdy metal pipe, a splitter, and some kind of improvised plunger. Improvising a plunger would be the hard part, since I don't weld. Suspect that a splitter would not create anough pressure, and getting anything dry in western Washington is hard. Getting the compressed sawdust out of the form might also be tricky.

Probably won't get around to it, but I'm very interested in hearing about anybody else's experiments.

 

[begreen]

Many more. And often, the lack of capitol and infrastructure results in a poor performing product.

BKVP

Yes, I have tried several losers but are there others that are formed under extremely high pressure and perform as well as those 2 products?

 

[begreen]

I can also get them here for $380 per pallet of 240 logs ($1.59/log), not including tax. There's more than one place selling them at that price, and one of them would deliver without an extra charge.

This is heavy fuel. The closer one is to the source the better the price. It's remarkable the price has only gone up 57¢ each for a pallet of 240 in 17 yrs.

 

[BKVP]

I can also get them here for $380 per pallet of 240 logs ($1.59/log), not including tax. There's more than one place selling them at that price, and one of them would deliver without an extra charge.

240 logs * 68K BTU each is 16,320,000 BTU. NG is currently around $1.36 / therm (roughly 100,000 BTU). In this area and ignoring the not-large difference in heating efficiency between a NG furnace and a BK, the NG equivalent cost to a pallet of NIELS is around $222.

I like the idea of NIELS, and have considered them as a backup heat source for emergencies. But at PNW energy costs they are too expensive for routine use.

OTOH, there is a small mountain of free sawdust ("take my sawdust - please!") available a few minutes away. It might be worth a weekend of experimenting with it, a peice of sturdy metal pipe, a splitter, and some kind of improvised plunger. Improvising a plunger would be the hard part, since I don't weld. Suspect that a splitter would not create anough pressure, and getting anything dry in western Washington is hard. Getting the compressed sawdust out of the form might also be tricky.

Probably won't get around to it, but I'm very interested in hearing about anybody else's experiments.

OK, so we get a 4" steel DOM piece. (drawn over mandrel) This means a smooth interior. I cut a 1/2" thick round circle to fit the inside of the 4" piece and weld it...(I have lots of welders!) Then make it fit on the end of my 50 ton hydraulic splitter. The 4" round has a groove 17" in from the end that allows me to drop in a stop plate. After running the ram forward, I retract, lift out the stop plate and ram forward once again to extrude (push) the formed log out of the 4" round.

Sounds like a project for when I retire. I probably have all the materials needed at home, but need the time and some sawdust.

BKVP

 

[Woodcutter Tom]

They look pretty light colored to be NIELs but maybe it's just the lighting or this batch had less linen. Generally, they are dark brown on the outside. You'll know after burning a couple. He got a good price on them. Some places are selling them for $3.50 a piece here.

View attachment 320118

I ran them in our F400 which is an E/W loader. They pack a lot of BTUs.

Northern Idaho Energy Logs

Northern Idaho Energy Logs Compressed log fuel wiki This wiki is for reporting compressed wood log results. Please use this format and include all specifics in future additions. Copy this wiki and paste into a new one to create another review...

www.hearth.com

They are pretty light colored; but some have darker areas to them. I got them at CHS - Northwest which has retail stores for the home and farm in northwest Washington. They are listed as a dealer by Northern Idaho Energy Logs. I had called ahead to check inventory. They sell pallets (240 logs) for $359 and the individual logs for $1.59. Northern Energy claims that a pallet is equivalent to 1 1/2 - 2 cords of hardwood. To me it would be a no-brainer to have some of these on hand vs buying "seasoned" wood for $XXX per cord.

I am not a facebook person, but I found a short video on Northern Energy's site. Scroll down to see it.

North Idaho Energy Logs and Pellets | Moyie Springs ID

North Idaho Energy Logs and Pellets, Moyie Springs, Idaho. 571 likes · 3 talking about this · 23 were here. Premium Densified Wood Fuel Since 1986. Manufacturer of Wood Pellets and Fire Logs. The...

www.facebook.com

 

[Woodcutter Tom]

Do NOT load more than two!

Thank you, I won't. My stove is 1.9 cubic feet...much smaller than yours. I probably will only use 1 at a time or 11/13 of one if I shorten for N - S loading.
A quick question for you. When you mixed NIELS and hardwood for your testing (after only burning NIELS), did you pack your stove full around the NIELS you used? Or did you leave space --- filling your stove only 1/2 or 3/4 full?

 

[begreen]

Thank you, I won't. My stove is 1.9 cubic feet...much smaller than yours. I probably will only use 1 at a time or 11/13 of one if I shorten for N - S loading.
A quick question for you. When you mixed NIELS and hardwood for your testing (after only burning NIELS), did you pack your stove full around the NIELS you used? Or did you leave space --- filling your stove only 1/2 or 3/4 full?

Ah the things we do for science. I ran 3.5 logs when testing in the slightly smaller Castine. No meltdown occurred. I've burned 4 in the T6 without drama too.

 

[BKVP]

I had a lot of fun experimenting with them. Read my post about loading up a mix of hardwood (walnut), maple and a few NIELS.
Loaded the stove and flew to Seattle, Spent the night, woke up and flew to LA. Waited there for a few hours and flew to Sydney AUS, hung out of 6 more hours or so and flew to Auckland. Went to bed at midnight and woke up 12 hours later. My phone rang and my sone asked if I wanted him to add wood to the coal bed!

Anyway, they are a great product, Hard to get started, but if you have a coal bed, I like very much loading a bunch of for or larch until the stove was nearly full. Then laid 2-3 NIELS across the top. Burning on low, eventually the cordwood cooks down and BAM!, the NEILS dop onto the coals and it goes another 6+ hours.

If you have a stove that can dial down to below 12,000 Btu's you're going to love them....

BKVP

 

[BKVP]

Ah the things we do for science. I ran 3.5 logs when testing in the slightly smaller Castine. No meltdown occurred. I've burned 4 in the T6 without drama too.

"Your experience may differ" depends upon draft on low!

 

[NHWS]

This is heavy fuel. The closer one is to the source the better the price. It's remarkable the price has only gone up 57¢ each for a pallet of 240 in 17 yrs.

They appear to be around the same BTUs per pound as several western softwoods.

Western WA is closer to Idaho than the East Coast, but far enough that shipping cost matters. Maybe there is a NIELS manufacturing site in Western WA? Does anyone know if NW Fuels makes them?

 

[BKVP]

I sent text to friend that owns NIELs. His response "Hey Chris, sorry I forgot to call you back, I was in Vietnam when you left a message. NW Fuels in western Washington sells our logs."

BKVP

 

[begreen]

They appear to be around the same BTUs per pound as several western softwoods.

Western WA is closer to Idaho than the East Coast, but far enough that shipping cost matters. Maybe there is a NIELS manufacturing site in Western WA? Does anyone know if NW Fuels makes them?

They are made in Idaho. NW Fuels sells them, but doesn't make them. HomeFires are made in Ferndale, WA.

 

[NHWS]

I know that they (and several other vendors within 50 miles) sell them. But the prices here seem to be lower than in some other places, including the Mt Rainier area. That would be reasonable if they are manufactured closer to here than Northern Idaho, thus saving the shipping cost for a heavy product.

 

[BKVP]

It's also about volume! Our local dealer orders full trailers and freight is so much better than when we ordered 8 skids for our studies.

BKVP

 

[NHWS]

HomeFires are made in Ferndale, WA.

Curious. The more local heavy item seems to cost significantly more per pound.

 

[Montanalocal]

OK, so we get a 4" steel DOM piece. (drawn over mandrel) This means a smooth interior. I cut a 1/2" thick round circle to fit the inside of the 4" piece and weld it...(I have lots of welders!) Then make it fit on the end of my 50 ton hydraulic splitter. The 4" round has a groove 17" in from the end that allows me to drop in a stop plate. After running the ram forward, I retract, lift out the stop plate and ram forward once again to extrude (push) the formed log out of the 4" round.

Interesting sounding project. Two things. One, if you are going to be efficient about this, then you need to have an efficient way to load the tube with sawdust repeatedly. However that is done, it will probably require the pipe to be rotated vertically so that gravity can fill the pipe. The pipe hinge can be on the back or the front of the pipe, but it will have to be made super strong to resist the force of the compression ram.

Two, you will have to experiment to see how long of a pipe-full of loose sawdust it takes to make a compressed brick of the length you want. You may need a ram longer than most normal spitters to accomplish that.

 

[NHWS]

The comparison isn't against the probably efficient industrial process used by NIELS. It's heat value produced per cost of materials and time on a small scale v. acquiring, bucking, and splitting (or buying) cord wood.