Looking at a Buck Stove Model 91 - Concerned it is Overkill

[spooky]

I would love some input from others with a 91 as far as whether it is overkill for my setup. I'm trying to avoid a stove that puts out so much heat that we can't use it often. I'd really appreciate any perspective from current 91 users.

Based on availability in my area I've narrowed down selection of a new wood insert to a Buck Stove model 91 or was also considering a PE Summit. The 91 will fit in our large fireplace, but I am mainly worried it will put out "too much" heat when operated normally and roast us out of that end of the house. Local dealer says I can always build a smaller fire but I'm skeptical about how well that will really work. We're in MD, so we have a winter but it isn't as cold as many areas, and I'm not necessarily trying to make wood our primary heat source but I wouldn't mind getting as much heat as we comfortably can out of it.

The house is a 1963 Ranch style house with rather large fireplace at one end (the existing flue is an amazing 16" diameter terra cotta liner) + mostly finished basement downstairs. About 1500 sq feet upstairs and the same footprint downstairs as partially finished basement. We have a single zone of forced air (currently just for AC) throughout the house, so some ability to circulate air but the air handler is all the way over above the garage, so will likely lose some heat using that. The vents and returns are all in the ceiling, so more ideal for cooling but thats what we have.

The existing fireplace is so big that I'm trying to avoid putting too small of a unit in that would look funny with a large and plain surround but also trying to balance that with potential heat output of a larger insert. I'd like to be able to run the stove "low and slow" when it isn't super cold out and of course still enjoy the look of a fire more often throughout the cold season. Fireplace dimensions and rough house layout below, and thanks in advance for any suggestions you might have.

 

[Ashful]

... Ranch style house ... 1500 sq feet upstairs and the same footprint downstairs as partially finished basement.

You sure on that square footage number? Quickly eye-balling 61 x 38 ft (ave dp) = 2318 sq.ft. for first floor alone.

No advice on the stove, other than the most common answer to "overkill" is get a Blaze King, but wanted to be sure you're getting answers based on the correct sq.ft.

 

[spooky]

You sure on that square footage number? Quickly eye-balling 61 x 38 ft (ave dp) = 2318 sq.ft. for first floor alone.

No advice on the stove, other than the most common answer to "overkill" is get a Blaze King, but wanted to be sure you're getting answers based on the correct sq.ft.

Appreciate the double check. I was figuring like: 61x31 subtracting 25*13 makes 1627 and then rounding down for the closet space. I've got no clue if there is a better way to figure it for heating purposes and I wasn't counting the garage. It's separated by solid masonry wall all the way up through the attic and no door connects to the house (outside garage entrance from the porch).

 

[Ashful]

Oh, sorry. You are correct. I had interpreted the right side dimension as 32 feet for just rec room, plus another 13 for bedroom.

 

[tebenhoh]

We have an older model Buck 91 installed as an insert in a masonry fireplace with an exterior chimney, and 8” insulated liner. It easily heats our similar square footage with the stove on the first/main floor, though we have an upstairs (open staircase) and no basement. We don’t use our stove 24/7 (we also have a gas furnace), but I don’t doubt we could if I chose to store that much more wood.

We are still in the learning curve after 4 yrs, but we can run ourselves out of the house with it, or cruise along at 70-73f depending on reload frequency, and load sizes. How warm do you want the house, what temp is comfortable for you?

As so many others here have taught me:
1) You gotta have DRY wood! Seriously, it makes a HUGE difference in how the stove runs. We’ve done both, we were newbies; get DRY wood!
2) Fans on the floor(low cool air), on low, facing towards the stove room will move the warmer higher air through your home - much more efficiently than your forced air system, unless you add a dedicated system to run with the stove.

I’m not well versed about other models available, or what other options you may have, but I have no complaints about our Buck. I’ll do my best to answer any other questions. Cheers, and be safe!

EDIT: Here a link to the Buck manuals for install dimensions, etc., if you don’t have one …

Buck Stove, New Buck Corp

buckstove.com

 

[spooky]

We have an older model Buck 91 installed as an insert in a masonry fireplace with an exterior chimney, and 8” insulated liner. It easily heats our similar square footage with the stove on the first/main floor, though we have an upstairs (open staircase) and no basement. We don’t use our stove 24/7 (we also have a gas furnace), but I don’t doubt we could if I chose to store that much more wood.

We are still in the learning curve after 4 yrs, but we can run ourselves out of the house with it, or cruise along at 70-73f depending on reload frequency, and load sizes. How warm do you want the house, what temp is comfortable for you?

As so many others here have taught me:
1) You gotta have DRY wood! Seriously, it makes a HUGE difference in how the stove runs. We’ve done both, we were newbies; get DRY wood!
2) Fans on the floor(low cool air), on low, facing towards the stove room will move the warmer higher air through your home - much more efficiently than your forced air system, unless you add a dedicated system to run with the stove.

I’m not well versed about other models available, or what other options you may have, but I have no complaints about our Buck. I’ll do my best to answer any other questions. Cheers, and be safe!

Thanks! I think my main question is are you happy with how it runs when you are cruising along keeping the house in the low 70s? How often are you reloading/how full? Do you have trouble getting it hot enough to light off the cat while still keeping the heat output low enough to avoid running yourself out of the house?

We've only been in this house a year but we tend to keep the thermostat lower like maybe 69 or 70 in the winter but part of that is the cost of oil these days... (currently we have oil boiler/hydronic baseboard heating as main source of heat). With our stove on the top floor, I figure it will be even harder to move heat from the stove downstairs than to circulate it around the upstairs, so that's another part of why I am worried about too much heat.

 

[tebenhoh]

Yes we are; it runs great on cruise, and we can load it smaller and still light the catalyst. Our furnace thermostat sits at 69, and It doesn’t run from when I light the first fire Friday after work until after the last load is out sometime early Monday morning. As you’d expect, the stove room stays the warmest, but only by 2-3 deg once the air starts moving around. Id say 3-4, about 4-6” splits thereabouts, is sufficient to hold 70ish temps with cat light off. In mild weather where the furnace would still run, 2-3 loads a day is probably a good average; either just morning and evening, or maybe another around dinner time as the sun sets and temps drop. It has been fairly mild here, I can keep you posted as it gets colder.

 

[mellow]

That is the nice thing about a cat stove is you can run them low and slow even with the bigger firebox, just gives you a longer burn, it also helps when we get those polar vortex's and its crazy cold out you can crank up the heat.

As mentioned, to run low and slow you need DRY wood, like wood that was split/stacked 3 years ago dry, especially oak. If you don't have that sometimes mixing in wood bricks will help but you will still struggle.

The 91 is built like a tank but the cat is fragile, burning crap wood in it can cause harm to it.

How tall is your chimney?

 

[spooky]

That is the nice thing about a cat stove is you can run them low and slow even with the bigger firebox, just gives you a longer burn, it also helps when we get those polar vortex's and its crazy cold out you can crank up the heat.

As mentioned, to run low and slow you need DRY wood, like wood that was split/stacked 3 years ago dry, especially oak. If you don't have that sometimes mixing in wood bricks will help but you will still struggle.

The 91 is built like a tank but the cat is fragile, burning crap wood in it can cause harm to it.

How tall is your chimney?

I haven't measured the chimney height, but I'd guess at least 15' probably more like 18'.

 

[mellow]

Hopefully it is more like 18', will need that draft for burning low and slow as well.

I heated a1200 sq foot 2 story house with an insert that is comparable to the 91 with a cat and it could run low and slow and not run us out or burn hot as heck when we needed it.

I did upgrade mine to a blaze king for the thermostatic control so I could load and go, might be worth taking a look at them as well, the princess won't win any awards for looks but will keep you warm for long periods of time, if looks are a concern the sirocco/ashford are winners in that area.

 

[spooky]

Hopefully it is more like 18', will need that draft for burning low and slow as well.

I heated a1200 sq foot 2 story house with an insert that is comparable to the 91 with a cat and it could run low and slow and not run us out or burn hot as heck when we needed it.

I did upgrade mine to a blaze king for the thermostatic control so I could load and go, might be worth taking a look at them as well, the princess won't win any awards for looks but will keep you warm for long periods of time, if looks are a concern the sirocco/ashford are winners in that area.

Thanks for the tip on the chimney, I will have to double check the height.

I had looked at the BKs, but even the oversize surrounds were not big enough to cover this massive fireplace. the princess is very close... it says 47" wide and my opening is 47" wide but I suspect that will leave a gap still, especially since the stone work is rough rather than flat. The surround won't be able to sit "flat". Plus, the Princess sticks out too far onto my hearth extension.

 

[tebenhoh]

You could have someone fab a surround for you; I don’t know what gauge sheet metal, or flat stock, ours is, but I can measure it. Ours doesn’t sit flat against our stone work, but you don’t notice that part.

 

[spooky]

You could have someone fab a surround for you; I don’t know what gauge sheet metal, or flat stock, ours is, but I can measure it. Ours doesn’t sit flat against our stone work, but you don’t notice that part.

View attachment 304722 View attachment 304723

Thanks for sharing. The standar surround for the Buck Stove 91 actually does fit over our fireplace, the Blaze King ones don’t quite though.

My main question was mostly around how people have done running the 91 on the low and slow end. I didn’t love the idea of having to put lots of smaller loads in it to keep the heat down but it sounds like from what I’m hearing so far that you guys can make it work.

If anyone else stumbles along this, thread I’d still love to get more opinions before I pull the trigger likely tomorrow.

 

[spooky]

One more question for you guys. Has anyone routed the cord for the blower back into the firebox rather than along the wall? I’m tempted to put a receptacle in the back corner of the fire box for power if it can work with the way Buck Stove is laid out.

 

[tebenhoh]

I’ll add this and then leave you to ponder it all…
The set-and-forget nature of the Blaze King thermostatically controlled stoves is very appealing. Here’s a real world example if you’re leaning towards the Buck; Thanksgiving weekend we reloaded from overnight coals at 7am-ish and we didn’t reload again until the sun set after 5pm-ish and we were still at 70f with coals to reload. Obviously as it gets colder outside we’ll burn larger and more frequent loads. It will take some time to learn any stove that’s new to you, but I don’t expect you’ll be disappointed. It may seem (sound) like “lots” of small loads, but it doesn’t feel like it to me. If I’d have packed it full in the morning we’d have been sweating. When it’s 10-20f outside and it’s packed full we’re comfortable. Once that stove, and our hearth, gets warmed up it makes the best heat. And if the power goes out it won’t feel like overkill.

I was hoping someone might post with info about moving warm air to your basement, but perhaps that’s another thread - or maybe you’ve already searched.
Have a good night, and good luck whichever you decide.

 

[tebenhoh]

That’s a question for @begreen or @bholler
I don’t know how that works with clearances to combustibles.

We added a receptacle to the left of the stove in the wall just outside of our stonework. (You can see the drywall patch in my first photo.) I can barely hold a hand to the stone just above our surround, I would guess it’s even hotter behind or under the stove? Maybe not since it’s an exterior wall?
Great idea if it will work!

 

[mellow]

Just curious, what are you being quoted on for the Stove, Install (with insulated 8" liner) and block off plate?

 

[spooky]

Just curious, what are you being quoted on for the Stove, Install (with insulated 8" liner) and block off plate?

For the 91, it was $6165. I did find out that did not include a permit which was a red flag to me but they are happy to do it just costs an extra $300.

 

[spooky]

For the 91, it was $6165. I did find out that did not include a permit which was a red flag to me but they are happy to do it just costs an extra $300.

After all this research though, I am very inclined to just do the install myself. The tax credit does make the install cheaper and makes it a bit easier to swallow with the discount.

 

[Woody Stover]

I haven't measured the chimney height, but I'd guess at least 15' probably more like 18'.

If you put a liner in the chimney, it should draft OK, even at 15' I'd think. But with the 8" flue outlet, draft may be more of an issue than the with the 6" outlet that you find on most stoves. At my MIL's house, we had about 20' of liner and plenty of draft. The other drawback with the 91 is that the blower isn't a quiet as some others I've heard, such as Lopi or Pacific Energy.

After all this research though, I am very inclined to just do the install myself. The tax credit does make the install cheaper and makes it a bit easier to swallow with the discount.

Installing it yourself isn't to hard in my experience, if you are reasonably handy and have some tools. But I'm no expert, having only installed a few, and there are no doubt installs where complications can arise.
In your situation, with the fireplace height you have, I might check into what free-standing stoves might fit in there, as opposed to an insert. You could paint the inside of the fireplace brick black to make it disappear. A shielded stove with a blower will get the heat out into the house, as opposed to a radiant stove that would mostly heat the masonry.
I like the Pacific Energy stoves for their simple design, easy and inexpensive non-cat maintenance, and availability of the nice enamel finish on their cast-iron jacketed versions.

 

[antonca]

Hi I have a 91 and about a 2500 square foot house. At 25 degrees external temp it will keep the room it is in about 75 degrees and the rest of the first floor around 69 which is comfortable for us. The second floor sits between 65-69 without furnace running depending on how close room is to staircase. I chose buck because my family has good experience and trust in this manufacturer, however I would certainly consider blaze king princess as others have mentioned. The burn times folks are getting definitely surpasses the 91 but I am not certain they are comparing apples to apples when it comes to btu output. For your purposes "slow and low" with 1500 sq ft I would certainly consider the princess especially with the thermostat controls. Most stoves including the buck 91 come with a surround to cover the gap between the stove and the fire place.

 

[mellow]

One thing I wanted to mention, many overlook it in their quest for wood heat and I wanted to emphasize it again, you will need DRY wood for this type of stove. Do not think even for a second that wood sellers have DRY (seasoned) wood unless you get it from someone who kiln dries it and even then if they only do it to kill bugs so it isn't truly dry. You will need to invest in a good moisture meter to double check any wood you get, checking from a freshly split piece in the middle of it. If not you will be back on here complaining that the stove does not burn correctly and the glass gets all black.