Looking for guidance on a new Lopi (steel) non-cat stove usage - to avoid waste

[joefrompa]

Hi all,

Just had a Lopi Republic 1750 insert installed. This is a 380 pound 2.2 cubic foot firebox insert that extends out from the wall 10 inches. I've started 3 fires in it so far, and I'd like some tips to help me avoid wasting a cord of wood this winter on experimentation. I have a new Rutland magnetic thermoster stuck to the top of the box, towards the middle of the insert.

I find myself tinkering ALOT with it. I have yet to get the stove over 300-350 degrees, though I have achieved some nice secondary burns that look gorgeous. I watched some videos posted by The WebMaster of Hearth.com and I have some ideas about how to build some hotter fires. However, alot of their recommendations were based around broad statements like "When the fire is strong, start dialing down the air controls"

I find myself opening the door to boost it up quickly, adjusting the intake and damper closed...then, seeing the flames smother and the heat not rising, opening them up again a bit.

Assuming my wood is being 20-30% M.C. (so near seasoned but not truly green either), can anyone point me in the following places:

1. Making the first damper/intake adjustments - I start the fire with a bunch of true kindling, I let it build up to a solid wall of flames and then add more substantial pieces (still smallish). I want to start seeing some glowing red coals and for the stove top temp to hit 200. I THEN close the intake/damper by 25%?

2. Building up a strong fire - I want to see the stove hit 250-300 and add real solid hardwood pieces to it. I'm looking for a small bed of coals to be on the bottom at this point, and roughly 20-30 minutes to have passed since initial light-up. I add the bigger pieces and dial it down to 50% open damper and intake.

3. Getting into a slower, but HOT burn with secondary action - This is the part I'm a bit confused on. I believe I want the big pieces to be solidly burning and for the fire to be in a "slow roar" (not alot of turbulence). I want the stove top temps to be over 350 degrees? At the end of this, I'm picturing either closing the damper all the way or leaving it only 25% open?

Is it a good idea to shut the damper all the way but leave the intake at 25-50% to allow it plenty of air to burn, but not alot of draft for it to evacuate the heat?

Thanks all - I'd like to be able to consistently get the stove up to 400-450 degrees without wasting alot of wood getting there.

Joe

P.s. I realize I'm so far doing small-to-medium fires with crappier wood in warmer weather to learn this thing. My goal is to be able to keep my wife happy the first time it gets freezing out, and to do it in an effortless manner so she's impressed

 

[Pagey]

Joe,

Here's what I do in my Endeavor and have success with. NOTE: I use well seasoned, beetle kill pine for starting my fires. It's varies from 12-20% MC and goes up like a rocket, so I have to preface my guidance with this fact. It's a dream for starting fires. So much easier than dense woods like oak or hickory, EVEN if they are well seasoned, too.

Cold stove: I open the bypass damper and the primary air control fully. I place 2 or 3 small splits (small to me is about 3" or so across) running N/S on the bottom of the fire box. I then place 2 similar sized splits running E/W across the very back of the N/S splits and the very front of the N/S splits. In the middle of those, I place 1/4 or 1/2 of a Super Cedar fire starter.

I light the corner of the Super Cedar, and carefully place it around the center of the middle N/S split. I then place 3 more small (again 3" or so wide) splits running N/S over the 2 E/W splits. This leaves me with a stack of wood that's 3 layers, from the bottom up: 3 N/S splits; 2 E/W splits; 3 N/S splits.

This allows for plenty of air space. The Super Cedar quickly ignites the 3 top-most N/S splits. I typically leave the door slightly ajar while the top 3 splits engage well. The fire quickly moves to the mid and lower tiers, as well. I then latch the door, leaving the bypass and primary air open. WITH PINE as a starter, I can usually close the bypass damper with a stove top of 200 to 250F and have immediate, active secondary combustion as soon as the bypass damper shuts. If the flames die down, I open the bypass for another 3-5 minutes.

If the secondaries are really strong, I close the primary air by about 1/3 to 1/2 about 1 or 2 minutes after closing the bypass. I don't base this on any science, just the look and behavior of the fire. Once the stove top reaches 400F, I usually push the air control in so that only the "spring" portion of the handle is visible from beneath the ash lip. NOTE: this "measurement" is obtained from me standing over the stove looking straight down (not at an angle).

Once she hits around 500F, I push the portion of the "spring" where the coils all touch one another "under" the ash lip. My final adjustment usually ends up with anywhere from 1 to 3 of the "spaced" coils hidden under the ash lip. If I lose visible combustion, I give it more air as needed and readjust.

Now keep in mind this is all advice given for MY stove with MY setup (flue, draft, wood, etc.). It's a general guide that may or may not work for you, but it will at least give you something to try that is known to work in a stove with the same fire box as yours. My guess is that your wood is just not truly seasoned. My first year involved less than ideal wood that was from 22 to 26% MC. It performed well enough, but it did produce a little more soot in the flue. Now I'm burning stuff that's been cut/split/stacked in an old hay barn for anywhere from 12 to 24 months, depending on which stack I get into. And the beetle kill pine is a godsend for starting fires.

 

[Pagey]

I should add that without the blower on, my stove likes to "cruise" around 600-650F. Once it hits 400F, I keep a close eye on it, as it will really take off like a rocket on dry wood. With the blower on, it will cruise about 100F lower. I personally like to let it run at 600F for a good 15 minutes before I turn on the blower. The blower, for me, really changes how I have to run the stove. It moves a ton of heat, but it does change the overall performance of the stove.

I will try to get some pics up the next time I build a fire so you can see what I am doing. It will be later in the week, though, before it is cold enough.

 

[joefrompa]

So I'm getting a few things out of that:

1. You close the damper pretty quickly (given a strong fire) and leave the air control completely open until the secondary flames are pretty prevalent, and then you are still leaving it open until the stove is 400-500 degrees.

2. You are getting secondaries when the stove top is at 250, indicating the fire inside is far hotter than the stove top would reflect.

3. You are starting the fire off with ALOT more wood than I was....if I read you right, you are talking about using ~8 3" across splits during the initial fire up. My equivalent amount during start-up was maybe 1/4-1/3rd the amount of wood. I need to build this thing with alot more initial fuel.

Thanks Pagey!

 

[Pagey]

Relatively speaking, yes, I do close the bypass pretty early. Again, if I have strong combustion when I close it that maintains itself, I leave the bypass closed. If the flames die down significantly, I open it for a few more minutes.

I usually make my first primary air adjustment a minute or two after I close the bypass. With strong secondaries rolling after I close the bypass, I make my first big "swing" at the primary air by cutting it down 1/3 to 1/2 closed. I don't wait until the stove top is 500 to make the first adjustment. I didn't mean to imply that at all. However, I never just go from fully open to fully closed with the primary air. In fact, my stove will not maintain visible combustion with the primary fully closed. It will smolder, drop to about 400F, and smoke like an old Fisher with the primary fully closed.

I adjust in stages: the first adjustment is the "big swing," reducing it by 1/3 to 1/2 (again, depending on the fire's behavior. Then, once I get her up to 400F or so, I leave the "spring" handle exposed while looking down at the ash lip. At 500F , give or take a few degrees, I push the coils on the spring that touch one another (that's like the first 4 coils or so) under the ask lip.

Then I set it to cruise by pushing 1 to 3 of the "spaced" coils under the ash lip and adjust as necessary.

A load that size will produce a 600F stove top easily. In milder weather (morning lows in the upper 30s), that one fire is all that is needed for the day.

 

[tickbitty]

There ya go! I was gonna say again to PM me and I could send you the good Pagey advice, but I see Pagey has already weighed in!
His posts were quite helpful to us in getting started with the Lopi and we have been doing a "refresher" course this week!

All that said, I think your wood is maybe a little wet. Give it all the air it needs but be aware that once you have some better seasoned stuff, you will have to monitor it much more closely! Our "first" wood was really well seasoned so we had it easy till we ran out of that.

I wonder if you have a source of biobricks or something like that near you? Maybe if you could get a pack of those you could use them along with the wood you have to get a better burn?

 

[Treacherous]

Is it bad that I just start my fires with four medium pieces of wood without any kindling?

Two N/S on bottom and two E/W on top with half of a super cedar in the middle. This just easily works and fires up to a raging fire in just a couple minutes. My wood is very dry as well. I let the flue heat up to about 600-700 degrees before I close the bypass damper.