Lopi Declaration Flush Mount - Thinking of making the dive...

[Ramurphy86]

Hello,

First off - wow, great forums. Learned a lot I didn't even know to think about reading around on them already.

Read quite a bit that most people don't seem to recommend the insert route on here, based on your comments and notes it seems they just don't get it done like a free standing unit. Our house, however, won't really "work" with a wood stove AND an insert, going to look very odd.

The fireplace we have wouldn't really fit an install where we place a wood stove into the space and run a chimney liner, so we are thinking of going with an insert. The flush mount seems, looks-wise anyway..., like the way to go.

The fireplace we have certainly puts out decent heat, but can't be left alone at night and doesn't really last anywhere near all night anyway. So - looking at wood stove inserts. Around my area, they push Lopi in a very serious way... Before getting on this site literally didn't know there were so many makes and models out there.

There is a declaration flush mount on sale nearby that would fit the budget bill, would then have to start reading about the install as there is a LOT more information on this site than you find just googling "insert install".

Looking through the reviews, appears that people seem very happy with this stove, but wanted to just check in to see if there was anything else I should be considering.

House - about 1,400 square feet for the area we will be heating. 2 story, this is the 2nd story, chimney isn't excessively tall (from 2nd to roof). Ceilings in the room the stove is going in are about 15', but the rest of the house is a pretty standard size.

Thank you for any thoughts you can provide!

 

[Dmitry]

For what it's worth I have Large Flush hybrid insert from Travis industries ,It's the same manufacturer as Lopi. Did you check this insert. Should be at your dealership. It's very cool looking and flush. Of course, free standing stove is a better heater but my wife fought it very seriously. I've never told her that but I don't know if I would be happy myself with wood stove standing in living room eight month without use when we are not heating with it.

 

[Ramurphy86]

Hi Dmitry, thanks for the response! I haven't really looked at any of the other models as the Declaration has a great deal that I can get currently (quite a bit off the retail). That flush hybrid does look very nice.

Agree that having something taking up room for no purpose 3/4 of the year is a bad investment as far as space goes... I also agree that it isn't something I would concede to with the wife

I really liked the look of the cape cod from Lopi as well, but the additional cost is a factor that makes it very hard to move that direction...

 

[prezes13]

I assume that there is no difference between declaration and cape cod, at least they look the same to me. I have cape cod in my 1994 raised ranch in ct. I have a little different layout than a typical raised ranch has. My fireplace is right in the middle of the house. My living room, dining room and kitchen is one open space with cathedral ceiling. This stove is able to heat that space into a high 70 or even 80. My total square footage is roughly 1200. Last winter which was the coldest winter I can remember I used 180 gallons of oil and roughly 2.5 cords of wood. Temperatures in my house were in the upper 70. I don't have a block off plate( hoping to install one this year) and unisulated flexible ss liner. I have probably 14-15 of chimney and I never get any problems with smoke in the house or starting a fire. Burn times will vary 4-10 hours depends on outside temps, wood etc. Great flame show and secondaries from hell. Stove is very pretty and seems to be well built.

 

[Ramurphy86]

Prezes13 - awesome information, thank you. Sounds like your house and my house have a very similar layout as far as the ceilings and the layout of the fireplace with respect to living room / dining room / kitchen. I have a central brick fireplace and a moderately (one day to be completely) open floor plan between the three. 10 hours would certainly get the job done, 4 would be a little bit of a bummer but I am sure it is possible to get longer burns depending on how much you choke it down, etc.

Will have to do some research on the liner and the block off plate to make sure I get it done right the first time. Not quite sure what the purpose of an insulated liner is, but plan on finding out. Also never heard of the block off plate before coming on these forums but another item I plan to research before installing the unit.

Like this model especially as the plug can be wired into the fikrebox leaving for a very clean install on the front.

Are you able to run the cape cod with the door open at all?

 

[prezes13]

I guess you could do it but why would you? Burn times will depend on the wood(species, moisture, size of splits), how warm was the house to begin with, how hot you want it to be there is a lot of variables. I think I had the fan run for 11 or more hours few times. I don't know how cold it gets where you live but las winter in ct was brutal. It was so cold the we had water services which by code have to be at least 4' deep frozen in the ground. I never experienced that in my 12 years with water dept. Stove did great.

 

[Ramurphy86]

Ambiance only, just for the fun of having the open flame there and being able to hear the crackle a little more, certainly not for any warmth preservation...

Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated. Likely going to grab this stove and let the fun begin...

 

[prezes13]

Stove puts such a great fire show that you won't need to open the door. Just remember you need well seasoned wood. That means 20% or less of moisture content.

 

[Dmitry]

My advise to you : Get everything right the first time you do it. It is not fun to move your insert back and forth after it was connected to liner etc. If I were you I would :
1) Get insulated liner ( it would improve draft and prevent creosote formation) Since your chimney is not that tall, you want this. (The draft)
2)Install the real block off plate. It will prevent hot air from escaping. I didn't do it and just stuffed roxul insulation like manual suggested . I regret it now. The insulation is not gonna air seal, it's just gonna prevent heat transferring . Did some reading on it. Now my insert connected with cement around where liner meets the stove etc, it's gonna be real pain to install block off plate with insert being in place.

 

[pdxdave]

My experience with a flush mount was largely negative and I was compelled to get a freestanding stove after a few years of using the flush mount.

 

[aansorge]

Most aren't supposed to run with the door open....as stated above flame show is great with the door shut.

The lopi should work great for your needs.

 

[Dmitry]

My experience with a flush mount was largely negative and I was compelled to get a freestanding stove after a few years of using the flush mount

Do you mind to elaborate on it a little. Just curious what to watch for.

 

[Grisu]

Link to block-off plate: https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/ Put some Roxul on top of it and you will have minimal heat loss.

With a fully interior fireplace, it won't make much of a difference whether you have a stove, an insert, or a flush insert. The heat that is captured in your fireplace cavity will warm up the walls which will release it slowly over time into your home. Kind of like a masonry heater. The biggest difference will be that after lighting a fire it will take more time for you to feel the heat. A blower will be helpful when you want heat fast.

An insulated liner is required when your chimney has not 2" clearance to combustibles all around (for an interior chimney). Most masonry chimneys don't fulfill that requirement. It will also help with draft and reduce creosote accumulation. The few hundred $ more will be money well spent for an installation that will last around 30 years.

Check the recommended minimum chimney height for the Declaration. You may want to get at least close to it. If it is not enough a section of class A pipe can be added to the top with a special adapter. At what elevation are you?

Be aware that those modern EPA-approved inserts/stoves require dry wood with a moisture content of less than 20% to burn well. Do you have some cords already split and stacked sitting in your yard? It is rare that you will be able to buy truly dry wood from a firewood seller. Many store it in logs and just split it a few weeks before selling it.

 

[pdxdave]

Do you mind to elaborate on it a little. Just curious what to watch for.

Well.. I've brought it up in lots of other posts in the past here. But I don't mind giving a brief summary anyways

My experience with the flush was:

Pros:
- Wife likes look
- Doesn't take up space

Cons:
- Difficult to start, closing doors tends to snuff out fire unless well established
- East/west loading is a pain, only very short splits can load north/south
- Burns through wood very fast, nowhere near advertised burn times
- Tends to pick up and distribute ash/dust via fan at bottom of insert, leaves everything coated in ash regardless of how careful and how often the area is vacuumed
- Does not deliver heat very well into the space
- Glass blacks up very easily and doesn't self clean very well
- Hard to burn clean unless very hot and eating though wood extremely fast
- Impossible to achieve overnight burn with any effective heat by morning
- Wife complains it is cold in house

Now, after replacing with a freestanding rear vented stove (IS), using the exact same wood, my experience has been:

Cons:
- Wife doesn't like look
- Takes up space in room

Pros:
- Easy to start, can close doors right away without severely slowing fire
- Can load north/south or east/west with any normal sized splits
- Burns wood at whatever speed I choose, gets better than advertised burn times
- Doesn't use fan, and doesn't create any mess or dust beyond it's immediate area
- Delivers heat very effectively into space
- Glass self-cleans up very easily after a slow cat burn
- Easy to burn clean right from the startup and throughout the burn cycle, regardless of burn rate
- Simple to achieve overnight burn with effective heat still producing in morning
- Wife has to remove clothing because it is too hot in house

 

[begreen]

Ambiance only, just for the fun of having the open flame there and being able to hear the crackle a little more, certainly not for any warmth preservation...

Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated. Likely going to grab this stove and let the fun begin...

Safety Precaution #1 from the Declaration's Manual:
The viewing door must be closed and latched during operation.

 

[Ramurphy86]

Awesome, thank you everyone for the great feedback and comments. As putting a free standing stove in really isn't an option, sounds like the insert is a solid way to go and sounds like many of you have had great success with this or a similar model.

The one I am looking at is a little older (2008) hence the discount on it from the retail. Waiting to hear back from Travis Industries to see if it still qualifies for all of the current code around here and likely will pick it up if it does. Sounds like a block off plate is the way to go and getting an insulated liner (or insulated a standard liner) is the way to go.

 

[begreen]

Should qualify. I don't think they've made major changes, but let us know what you hear from Travis.

 

[prezes13]

I agree with pixdave to a degree but not on all of his cons.

My stove is not difficult to start at all, even with a short flue.
It definitely east-west loader to load south-north I would have to cut my wood to 14" major pita, however east-west I can put logs 24" long.
It has only a 2.2cf firebox(advertised) but it's tapered and kind of shallow so there is no way you can use it to a full capacity, but I don't think it burns wood that quick.
You have to run a fan with a flush mount there is no way around it that's the beauty of a flush insert, however it delivers heat no problem.
Glass doesn't black out unless I choke it too much.
I think it burns really clean. Actually I didn't clean my flue since Feb. of 2014. My weather cap has no signs of creosote at all.
You can get an overnight burn but not that much heat coming out in the morning, but that's due to a relatively small fire box.
Wife complains when it's 72 or lower in the house. Usually it's 74-76 over 76 it's too hot for me.
All that said if I knew what I know now, I would have had put a nice freestanding stove in my rec room downstairs. And it would have been ashford 30 or progress hybrid. I belive it would have had worked better for me. Now when I want to go downstairs it's cold there and I have only one zone oil heat so I need a separate source of heat there. Like I said before this stove definitely does heat the house I am happy with it. Do your home work, don't look for a cheap way out. Like Dmitry said do it once and do it right. At least you know about this place and guys here will help you out with anything and everything you need.

 

[iamlucky13]

I'm generally happy with my Declaration Plus. The fan could be a little quieter, but running a fan is the price you pay with a flush insert. I would have gotten an insert that stuck out a little if my heart extended far enough, but that was a decision specific to my house.

I haven't experienced most of the complaints PDXdave has. I admit, you get very little useful heat out until the fan comes on, that seems more delayed than I would think it should be (Lopi says getting the stove body up to temp before removing heat with the fan improves secondary burn). I had definite window soot build-up when I tried to cheat on wood moisture content (I guess it's a visual reminder I shouldn't be doing that), and also get some if I try to close down the primary air vent too soon. Most of the time, it's fine though. I think it's more tempermental about closing down the air quickly than other stoves, based on reading other experiences here.

The Lopi hybrid models are a step up from their other models - combination of secondary burn and catalysts. You should expect to pay more for the hybrid models.

 

[Ramurphy86]

Well thank you for all of the feedback on this, planning on picking up the unit tomorrow, seller is letting it go for $2.4k with a liner, thing looks to be never used / in perfect condition, so pretty excited about it!

I am sure the liner isn't insulated, and right now it is 100 degrees here, so I guess I have time to deal with getting the installation all prepped!

 

[Ramurphy86]

Alright, got the stove! Step one accomplished. Took some ingenuity to get it out of the bed of the truck into the storage shed, getting it from there to the house will be fun

Have an installer coming out to take a look and already talking to the county about permitting and making sure we are OK on that front.

Thank you all for your help and direction so far!