Lopi Flex95 insert questions.....

[mtmtnman]

Hi folks, Looking at a nice used Lopi Flex 95 for my home as the fireplace i have is just a huge waste of heat up the chimney. House was built in 2002 and has an 8" triple wall flue. I am a general contractor but have never installed one of these before and wonder if i have to pull the existing fireplace out? (near impossible as rock work is over the front) or if i can slide this unit into the fireplace? Installation instructions online are vague but it looks like i can slide the unit in per page 38 here: (broken link removed to http://www.lopistoves.com/TravisDocs/93508019.pdf) Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Going through about 150-200 gallons of propane a month and have an abundance of dead standing oak on my property going to waste...

 

[begreen]

The odds are no for this old stove. Do you know what is the make and model of the zero clearance fireplace? Sometimes this is listed on a tag inside the door frame.

 

[webby3650]

Page 38 outlines inserting it into a masonry fireplace, yours is not a masonry fireplace.
You have a zero clearance fireplace. Your best bet is to install a class A chimney in another location and keep the fireplace as is.

 

[mtmtnman]

Marco 792797

 

[begreen]

Look in the manual for the Marco. My guess it that it will say no insert is allowed to be installed. That together with the stove manual saying that it's only for masonry installation pretty much settles it.

 

[mtmtnman]

I combed the entire internet looking for a manual which is how i found this site. Never did find a manual. Tag says don't use insert not made for Marco fireplace. If i have to tear out the whole thing i'll leave it and put the $$$$ into an outdoor wood boiler so i can heat my shop too.......

 

[webby3650]

I combed the entire internet looking for a manual which is how i found this site. Never did find a manual. Tag says don't use insert not made for Marco fireplace. If i have to tear out the whole thing i'll leave it and put the $$$$ into an outdoor wood boiler so i can heat my shop too.......

Even if you'd find that the fireplace allows an insert, that insert isn't approved.

Outdoor furnace huh? Have you researched the expense including the infrastructure? Not to mention the immense amount of wood consumption..

 

[mtmtnman]

Like i said, I'm a GC. Can pick up a good barely used boiler for $2,000-$3000, (many people buy them and get tired of cutting wood here) I Have an excavator for running the loops, I Was a tinner out of high school so i'm pretty confident i can install the heat exchangers. I live on acreage in the Wisconsin Northwoods and have an unlimited supply of wood. Could also likely go with one of these but damn are they spendy http://ironstrike.us.com/products/striker-c160

 

[mtmtnman]

http://ironstrike.us.com/products/striker-c160

The Striker™ C160 provides a popular and efficient alternative for a small masonry or factory-built fireplace. The Striker has been specially engineered to fit into almost any factory-built fireplace, enabling you to use your hearth as a whole-house heat source.

The Striker C/A160 insert can only be installed in the following brands of
factory-built zero clearance fireplaces: LENNOX, SUPERIOR, HEATILATOR,
MAJESTIC, MARTIN, PREWAY, MARCO, TEMCO and FMI.
The fireplace cavity must be 36” (914 mm) in width, 21” (533 mm) in
height and 14” (356 mm) in depth. Installation in larger size fireboxes
of the same brands is permissible.

 

[begreen]

I combed the entire internet looking for a manual which is how i found this site.

I did a brief look and didn't find it either, though other Marcos of the same vintage and style say that the insert must be approved for installation in a Marco fireplace. The old Lopi is not approved. This is the language from the Striker manual:

The Striker C/A160 insert can only be installed in the following brands of factory-built zero clearance fireplaces: LENNOX, SUPERIOR, HEATILATOR,
MAJESTIC, MARTIN, PREWAY, MARCO, TEMCO and FMI.

FYI - there's a boilerroom forum here to explore the requirements for installing a boiler successfully. Lots of good info there.

 

[mtmtnman]

Yeah, Might look into a Stryker or a Lopi Revere this summer. Both are made for Zero Clearance units. Might still pick up the old Lopi for the shop for now. $200 for it lol..... Thanks for your help.....

 

[webby3650]

Like i said, I'm a GC. Can pick up a good barely used boiler for $2,000-$3000, (many people buy them and get tired of cutting wood here) I Have an excavator for running the loops, I Was a tinner out of high school so i'm pretty confident i can install the heat exchangers. I live on acreage in the Wisconsin Northwoods and have an unlimited supply of wood. Could also likely go with one of these but damn are they spendy http://ironstrike.us.com/products/striker-c160

Being a GC doesn't make it any easier to cut and haul wood!

 

[mtmtnman]

Amen to that lol!! I own a property maintenance business and i end up cutting up a lot of wood anyways so i guess you could say i get paid to get my firewood. That and the dead standing Oak on my property should keep me in wood for a long time. Have a tractor and loader to get it on the porch......

 

[bholler]

Yeah, Might look into a Stryker or a Lopi Revere this summer.

It does not matter what insert it is the tag in the fireplace very clearly says no inserts. That means no inserts You cant put one in that fireplace at all.

 

[mtmtnman]

Read it again, It says do not use an insert NOT SPECIFIED FOR USE WITH THIS MODEL. Stryker lists Marco as one of the MFGS they will fit. Also in the install instructions from Stryker it says "This appliance can only be installed in the factory-built fireplaces listed to UL 127 or CSA S610." The Marco fireplace i have is UL 127 so unless i failed reading comprehension in high school i fail to see the problem???

 

[bholler]

"This appliance can only be installed in the factory-built fireplaces listed to UL 127 or CSA S610." The Marco fireplace i have is UL 127 so unless i failed reading comprehension in high school i fail to see the problem???

Well you are wrong there marco has to specify the accessories that work with their system and they have to be tested as a system to maintain the ul listing and meet code requirements. So unless you can find a list of inserts approved to be put into your model marco fireplace by marco you cant do it. And I can tell you that list does not exist.

 

[mtmtnman]

"The Striker C/A160 insert can only be installed in the following brands of factory-built zero clearance fireplaces: LENNOX, SUPERIOR, HEATILATOR, MAJESTIC, MARTIN, PREWAY, MARCO, TEMCO and FMI."

 

[bholler]

"The Striker C/A160 insert can only be installed in the following brands of factory-built zero clearance fireplaces: LENNOX, SUPERIOR, HEATILATOR, MAJESTIC, MARTIN, PREWAY, MARCO, TEMCO and FMI."

Yes but Marco doesn't say it is ok. To meet the listing requirements and code you need both companies to agree that it is ok one of them is not enough. I have not been able to find the manual for your specific fireplace but I have found quite a few similar ones from the same time period which have the same warning and those like most other zc fireplace manuals also says "this fireplace is not intended to be used with any components not listed in this manual" And there are no inserts listed so no inserts can be used. Some manuals are kind or nonspecific when it comes to inserts and with those an argument can be made that it is not specifically forbidden but in this case it is very clear you cant do it and still follow the instructions for the fireplace so that means it will void the listing for that fireplace and make the install non code compliant due to the fact that code says you need to follow all manufacturers installation instructions.

 

[bholler]

If you choose to ignore the fireplace instructions and install an insert anyway it may very well work just fine and be perfectly safe. But if anything happens all of the liability will fall on you. Your insurance company likely will not pay the claim and neither the fireplace manufacturer or the insert manufacturer will back you up because you voided the listing for the fireplace meaning it is no longer suitable for the insert according to even the inserts instructions. They have covered themselves as far as the liability goes and you will be left with the consequences.

 

[begreen]

Gather the documentation and present it to the insurance company underwriter. Ask if they need anything else for approval.

 

[bholler]

Gather the documentation and present it to the insurance company underwriter. Ask if they need anything else for approval.

Come on read the tag in the fireplace it is very clear that you cant put n insert in there. I can see your side of the argument in some cases but this one there is no grey area at all.

 

[begreen]

As long as it's installed properly, the only issue is liability. Let the insurance company decide.

 

[bholler]

As long as it's installed properly, the only issue is liability. Let the insurance company decide.

So you are advising him to disregard the fireplace manufacturers instructions and violate code if his insurance company says it is ok? Since when do insurance companies set code?

 

[begreen]

As you noted this is not a safety issue, it is a liability issue.

 

[bholler]

As you noted this is not a safety issue, it is a liability issue.

Again you are advising him to violate code if his insurance company says it is ok????

And no I didn't say it was safe I said it may be safe none of us know if it will be because we didn't do a full inspection and there is no testing to tell us if it would be safe.