Lopi X in an old house - don’t want to just slam it

[Enginerd81]

Hello! First post so thank you in advance for any feedback back or suggestions.

My family has a cottage in northern Michigan that gets used 12 or so weekends a year where heat is needed. We have an old 40k btu furnace that we supplement with a wood stove.

Previous generation installed a Ben Franklin type stove into a fire place with what appears to be a direct vent set up- a few turns of 6” pipe terminating just after it gets into the chimney. They had taken the legs off and rested the stove on some bricks.

I wasn’t a big fan of this set up for a few reasons. So I looked into inserts for what I hoped was safer, more efficient and aesthetically pleasing.

I found what I believe to be a mid 80’s lopi x insert in decent condition. It should fit good and I think will look great.

As I’m researching installing inserts it appears things have changed a lot since this was built. Based on the manual I should be ok to just put this into the fireplace - put the shroud and insulation on and be good to go.

But the consensus appears to say I need a chimney liner. I pulled the old stove out to see what was there. Picture attached. The 6” pipe barely makes it through - I don’t see 8” wrapped pipe having a chance.

I went on the roof to see the opening at the top - approx 6.5 x 10.5. Again no chance of a liner going in. Picture attached.

My current thoughts….

Regardless of installation process I was going to call a chimney sweep to have a good look and cleaning of the chimney. Last cleaned by a relative 10 years ago.

- Cut away from the bottom so I can at least direct vent up into the chimney

- Put it in per manual instructions and have the chimeny cleaned every few year.


What is the safest way to work with what I’ve got?

 

[bholler]

Hello! First post so thank you in advance for any feedback back or suggestions.

My family has a cottage in northern Michigan that gets used 12 or so weekends a year where heat is needed. We have an old 40k btu furnace that we supplement with a wood stove.

Previous generation installed a Ben Franklin type stove into a fire place with what appears to be a direct vent set up- a few turns of 6” pipe terminating just after it gets into the chimney. They had taken the legs off and rested the stove on some bricks.

I wasn’t a big fan of this set up for a few reasons. So I looked into inserts for what I hoped was safer, more efficient and aesthetically pleasing.

I found what I believe to be a mid 80’s lopi x insert in decent condition. It should fit good and I think will look great.

As I’m researching installing inserts it appears things have changed a lot since this was built. Based on the manual I should be ok to just put this into the fireplace - put the shroud and insulation on and be good to go.

But the consensus appears to say I need a chimney liner. I pulled the old stove out to see what was there. Picture attached. The 6” pipe barely makes it through - I don’t see 8” wrapped pipe having a chance.

I went on the roof to see the opening at the top - approx 6.5 x 10.5. Again no chance of a liner going in. Picture attached.

My current thoughts….

Regardless of installation process I was going to call a chimney sweep to have a good look and cleaning of the chimney. Last cleaned by a relative 10 years ago.

- Cut away from the bottom so I can at least direct vent up into the chimney

- Put it in per manual instructions and have the chimeny cleaned every few year.


What is the safest way to work with what I’ve got?View attachment 297121 View attachment 297122 View attachment 297123

You absolutely can and need to install a liner

 

[Enginerd81]

Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate on fitting it down through the top?

Demo off the top work until it opens up? Or will it deform enough to get down there?

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the reply. Can you elaborate on fitting it down through the top?

Demo off the top work until it opens up? Or will it deform enough to get down there?

You can use an oval liner or remove the old clay liners to make more room

 

[EbS-P]

The issue I see is how to connect the insert to the liner and keep the damper functioning.
I was able to install a key damper in the appliance adapter on my insert.

I removed my entire damper assembly (frame and damper).

It is an 8” outlet or 6”?

Just so you know all your options price out a new Drolet 1800i.

 

[Enginerd81]

The issue I see is how to connect the insert to the liner and keep the damper functioning.
I was able to install a key damper in the appliance adapter on my insert.

I removed my entire damper assembly (frame and damper).

It is an 8” outlet or 6”?

Just so you know all your options price out a new Drolet 1800i.

It is an 8” outlet - I was planning to fab and weld a small box around the opening leaving as little gap as possible the moving damper.

Then attach an oval top plate to the box.

 

[begreen]

There are a few old posts on solving this problem:

How to attach stove pipe to an old Lopi insert if there is no collar?

I have a Lopi Model X insert that has a flat top around the exhaust opening. There is no collar sticking up in which to attach a pipe. This stove has a secondary burn tube and seems to be made almost like the new Lopi model, except for the flat top. I'm fairly certain this was made in the late...

www.hearth.com

Lopi LX Universal Flue Adapter

I have a 1982 Lopi Classic LX fireplace insert. Currently, it vents directly into the flue bell of my chimney. I'd like to pipe it to the top of the chimney, but this requires a special part due to the way Lopi designed the flue collar back in those days (see picture.) Travis Industries (the...

www.hearth.com

 

[Enginerd81]

Thanks for the replies.

I went to a local fireplace shop to get new gaskets and a fire brick as well as get a quote on a chimney liner.

The opening on top of the stove is 8” - I said an 8” wouldn’t fit in the top opening of my chimney and wanted a 6x10 oval. They said that 6” round would be fine.

When I asked what the consequences of reducing down would be they said it would be less efficient/burn more wood. (Which I’m fine with given the limited usage per year)

The 6” would be significantly less expensive and much easier to fab an adapter for the flue opening.

Based on manual research it is a 1982 Lopi X, chimney length is 18’.

Am I ok to use a 6” in this application?

 

[begreen]

The insert is set up for an 8" flue. Choking it down will not cause the stove to burn a lot more wood, but it will likely cause it to spill smoke when the stove doors are opened.

 

[Enginerd81]

The insert is set up for an 8" flue. Choking it down will not cause the stove to burn a lot more wood, but it will likely cause it to spill smoke when the stove doors are opened.

The owners manual indicates to set up for no direct connection- just dump into a chimney - would a 6” flue draft better than a full open chimney?

 

[begreen]

That's correct. They didn't change to bypass damper setup until about 1985 in the X. The early ones were designed as slammers. These were fairly flexible regarding chimneys and could work ok up to a maximum 10"x12" chimney. There are a number of factors that affect draft in addition to flue area so it's hard to say how well it will work. The best I can say is maybe. 28 sq in is a long way from the 120 sq in max and almost half the design area for the insert's 8" flue.

 

[Enginerd81]

Just to post an update - I cut off the damper mechanism and used a 8” damper then 8” to 6” damper connected to a stainless chimney liner. Had to fab a handle to control damper behind face plate.

We’ve used it for two weekends and it has worked well. As long I open the damper no smoke comes out when reloading. If I forget to then a bit comes out that reminds me to open it.

Thanks for the feedback and push to do it right and use a liner.

 

[Enginerd81]

Installed!

 

[VintageGal]

Installed!
It doesn't look like your hearth extension is long enough but it could be the angle of your camera

 

[Enginerd81]

It’s not fully bolted up in that picture - it fits flush now!

 

[Enginerd81]

Here’s it fully bolted up with damper rod

 

[bholler]

It’s not fully bolted up in that picture - it fits flush now!

Is that standard black steel pipe that you used to adapt from 8 to 6? Is your liner insulated? Your pipe connections are also upstairs down

 

[Enginerd81]

Yes black pipe

did not end up going with insulated liner it would not have fit without busting out the terra-cotta - understand modern code but based on the new ish terracotta liner and the limited use it has seen, we chose to do uninsulated.

Also don’t love the upside down connections - but will get a sweeping once a year and will only see 4-5 weekends a year worth of use.

 

[bholler]

Yes black pipe

did not end up going with insulated liner it would not have fit without busting out the terra-cotta - understand modern code but based on the new ish terracotta liner and the limited use it has seen, we chose to do uninsulated.

Also don’t love the upside down connections - but will get a sweeping once a year and will only see 4-5 weekends a year worth of use.

You need to pull the surround every year to make sure the connection is not rusted out or is leaking creosote out into the top of the stove because it's upside down. Does your chimney have the required clearances to combustibles? That is all that matters when it comes to insulation

 

[stoveliker]

Regarding the hearth, I think you need 16" (noncombustible) hearth in front of the stove. That does not seem to be the case?