Lots of questions for a New purchase

[amynrichie]

Hi all! Last time we bought a stove, it was an Englander out of the classifieds. We bought it used and have been using it for 7-8 years now.

We are now in the market for a new stove for the upper level of the house. I'm actually researching BEFORE the buy this time! Here are my questions:

BTU- we have a 1600sf home with LOTS of windows in the kitchen and LR. Those rooms open to each other via an arch that is 50 inches wide. Not exactly an open floor plan. Vaulted celing is about 10 feet at the highest point. I'm concerned that a 40k btu stove that says its rated up to 160sf might not keep up with the polar vortex winds. With only the heat from the basement, my kitchen gets down to the lower 50's in temps. Those windows catch the cold north wind here. Winds are not unusual at 40-60 mph during the winter. Is 50-55k BTU overkill, or desirable?

Maintenance- We totally get and understand importance of cleaning. The DH works on the Englander without problem. As far as DIY- whose warranty is the easiest to work with? Enviro, Harman, St Croix, Lopi? I'll talk to dealers too, just wondered about that. Enviro & Harman are 75 miles away, and dealer gets back logged on service. St Croix and Lopi are my only options Locally. We don't mind if we can just get parts shipped.

Multi Fuel- A pellet only stove is NOT a deal breaker, but we do like to burn a corn mix every now and then. I just don't really want to have to change the burn pot every time we run out of corn. Suggested models?

St Croix Lincoln SCS- Does anybody have this stove? I'm having a HARD time finding real people talking about them on the web. Are they just that good?

Quiet- I don't need absolute silence- just no whines, squeels, or clanks. It would be nice if the blowers are halfway quiet too! (The beast downstairs is ridiculously loud- but hot!) This is going in my main living space upstairs- Suggestions?

Thanks for your help folks!

 

[Bioburner]

I have heard no negatives on the current St.Croix line. I have had no opportunity to check out the full line. Lot of Auburns in our area though. That much glass is going to suck up BTUs. I would lean to over 50k. We invested in themal lined drapes and amazed at the differance.

 

[hwdemers]

I'm going yo get accused of being a cheerleader here, but the enviro m55 fits every thing you asked for.

But saint Croix makes a great stove as well, I'm not as familiar with this as it's been 10 years cence the last on I burned on any sort of regular basis. From my memory it was very reliable.

 

[SKOAL MAN]

Why not get another Englander? If you have been using a used stove for 8 years with no problems, get another! You can get the parts and the service for both stoves from the same place.

 

[TimfromMA]

I have a St Croix. The only noises it makes are the blowers plus the clinking of pellets falling into the burnpot.

 

[amynrichie]

Well, we have good luck with the old beast, but it's really not pretty enough for the upstairs. The m55 really has been high on the list the whole time. The dealer is 75 miles away, and st croix is right here. That, however, is not a huge issue if we can get parts shipped if the tech can't get out.

 

[amynrichie]

I'm starting to lean more toward the St Croix LIncoln SCS. The Harman/ Enviro dealer is 75 miles away, and apparently phone troubleshooting is not an option. That means if I have problems, I could be without a stove for 2-3 weeks before a tech gets here.

There is a St Croix dealer here locally as well as in the town 75 mi away. I talked to the out of town guy, and they prefer to troubleshoot over the phone if possible. His tech tries to get out to our area in 1-2 weeks. I didn't talk to the local guy yet, but will when they are open.

Are St Croix difficult to work on yourself? Is there ANY reason at all that I should be leery of getting the Lincoln SCS?

 

[Bioburner]

What don't trust help on a stove here?I have gotten better and faster help on most stove ??s and how to run them then most dealers and most dealers don't know stove specific idiosyncrasies!

 

[amynrichie]

Oh, don't get me wrong, bio! I DO trust you, and all of the great folks here. This is where we learned how to manage our Englander.

 

[tjnamtiw]

Why not get another Englander? If you have been using a used stove for 8 years with no problems, get another! You can get the parts and the service for both stoves from the same place.

I've got the same question as Skoal Man. You bought a USED Englander and used it for 8 YEARS with, apparently, no major complaints since you said the husband had no problems keeping it going. Imagine how well a NEW Englander would operate and last! Perhaps upgrade to a larger one, if available. Many here buy refurbished (really new with a scratch or slight dent) from AMFMENERGY and have no complaints with the stoves and you get a full factory warranty, which seems to be better than most.

 

[amynrichie]

We're keeping the old Englander downstairs. Def have looked into that option. I'm just hoping to incorporate something a little more stylish as well as being functional and reliable. Thanks for all of the input so far!

 

[tjnamtiw]

With the price of corn coming down, a multi-fuel might be in the equation since that's what your St. Croix is that you're looking at. (broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/multifuel-stoves.html) That is pretty nice.

 

[amynrichie]

With the price of corn coming down, a multi-fuel might be in the equation since that's what your St. Croix is that you're looking at. (broken link removed to http://www.amfmenergy.com/multifuel-stoves.html) That is pretty nice.

do you know how quiet these run? the other englander we have is quite loud, and I'm not sure I want that upstairs.

 

[tjnamtiw]

It could be loud because the blower is 8 years old and bearings are shot, out of balance from an accumulation of hair/dust/gunk, bent shaft from over-agressive cleaning.
If you love the St. Croix and feel comfortable with the dealer as well as needing two sources of parts and starting a new learning curve on troubleshooting/setup, go for it. That is a pretty stove.

 

[amynrichie]

That's the problem, I dint REALLY love the St Croix. Thanks for giving me another angle to think about.

 

[rona]

Hi all! Last time we bought a stove, it was an Englander out of the classifieds. We bought it used and have been using it for 7-8 years now.

We are now in the market for a new stove for the upper level of the house. I'm actually researching BEFORE the buy this time! Here are my questions:

BTU- we have a 1600sf home with LOTS of windows in the kitchen and LR. Those rooms open to each other via an arch that is 50 inches wide. Not exactly an open floor plan. Vaulted celing is about 10 feet at the highest point. I'm concerned that a 40k btu stove that says its rated up to 160sf might not keep up with the polar vortex winds. With only the heat from the basement, my kitchen gets down to the lower 50's in temps. Those windows catch the cold north wind here. Winds are not unusual at 40-60 mph during the winter. Is 50-55k BTU overkill, or desirable?

Maintenance- We totally get and understand importance of cleaning. The DH works on the Englander without problem. As far as DIY- whose warranty is the easiest to work with? Enviro, Harman, St Croix, Lopi? I'll talk to dealers too, just wondered about that. Enviro & Harman are 75 miles away, and dealer gets back logged on service. St Croix and Lopi are my only options Locally. We don't mind if we can just get parts shipped.

Multi Fuel- A pellet only stove is NOT a deal breaker, but we do like to burn a corn mix every now and then. I just don't really want to have to change the burn pot every time we run out of corn. Suggested models?

St Croix Lincoln SCS- Does anybody have this stove? I'm having a HARD time finding real people talking about them on the web. Are they just that good?

Quiet- I don't need absolute silence- just no whines, squeels, or clanks. It would be nice if the blowers are halfway quiet too! (The beast downstairs is ridiculously loud- but hot!) This is going in my main living space upstairs- Suggestions?

Thanks for your help folks!

A corn mix opens the door to lots of choices. I think Quadra Fire has several pellet stoves that will burn a mix. Actually most pellet stoves will burn a % of corn mixed in with pellets but true multi fuel stove should be able to start and run on corn alone. A Harman PC45, Most earlier St Croix, Bixby, and some Country side were made specifically for corn. Sounds like you have had enough experience that you shouldn't have to depend on warranty other then a few parts and advice over the phone or on here. Truth be known I have learned a lot more from forums like Hearth.com and I Burn Corn then from a local dealer. The dealer makes money from service calls so he normally won't tell you everything. I'm a firm believer in doing for myself and as such I also find different places for parts. Nothing against dealers as they have to make a living to but I am much better off having a couple bearings, igniters and a spare exh fan on hand and being able to fix it myself then waiting for somebody to show up, diagnose the problem, order parts and hopefully they are not back ordered.

 

[Bioburner]

Unfortunatly two of the four you mentioned are no longer available new.

 

[rona]

Unfortunatly two of the four you mentioned are no longer available new.

Which two ? You can buy a new Bixby 120 on line. Didn't Countryside just change its name or did I miss it? I did see Harman was no longer advertising the PC45 Not sure if it is a fact or not. Not sure but I thought St Croix was still in business. Quad still has the AE as their corn burner. I thought their Sante Fe would also burn corn once you started it on pellets.

 

[Bioburner]

Waiting for inquiry on drop of PC45 and Bixby has been out of production for what coming on four years. Sold the backup 45 from the garage yesterday to someone to convert to crosslink. Put the Bixby online and fired last night. Sure burns corn well.

 

[rona]

Waiting for inquiry on drop of PC45 and Bixby has been out of production for what coming on four years. Sold the backup 45 from the garage yesterday to someone to convert to crosslink. Put the Bixby online and fired last night. Sure burns corn well.

Actually I doubt any Bixbys were made after 2008. But as I said you can still buy new ones on E-bay for 2200 which is 1/2 price. They like other companies had a huge inventory when corn jumped up and once corn went over 5.00 it was cheaper to burn pellets. Actually nat gas dropped about that time also. In any event selling any kind of corn or pellet stove was a tough sell. One of my close friends sold both Harman and St Croix stoves back then and he along with a lot of other dealers got caught in the shuffle and got burned by the stove companies when the bottom dropped out. I remember him showing a letter he got from Harman saying they were in tough shape and had several warehouses full of new stoves that needed to be gone to pay off loans. In the end Harman got bought out by the same outfit that owns Quadrafire. Rumor had it they sold most of the surplus stoves over seas at a huge loss. Doing this helped the dealers survive as it kept the price of the existing stoves up so the dealers could sell their inventory at normal markup. Some models of the Harman line were farmed out to companies over seas same as the Quadra Fire AE has been.

 

[persistentmotion]

So I'm going to chime in on the BTU's needed. I have a 1800 sqft 2 story house and heat it with a Enviro Empress insert that is rated at 35k BTU. It was a cold winter here in New Hampshire last year and this stove was completely adequate and was able to keep the entire house, including the 2nd floor, at 74 degrees on its highest setting (5), on the coldest days. I never exceeded 2 bags of pellets per day.

My brother on the other hand has an M55 insert and heats a 1400 sqft ranch and has had issues with having a pellet stove with too many BTU's. The issue has is that the stove is so powerful that he is constantly running it at the lowest setting (1). A pellet stove will run best at it's mid setting and will tend to burn better/cleaner as does his on setting 3 of 5. He can only turn it up that high on the coldest days or he is blasted out of the house with the M55 running. He hasn't had any repair issues with his stove which is set up with and OAK and I haven't had any issues with mine other than a bad barring on my exhaust fan.

With that being said, I'm not necessarily recommending a stove, because both my brother and I were limited to inserts. I think that with a 1600 sqft a 35k BTU stove would probably cut it without a problem, especially if it is a free standing unit and not an insert. Just my humble opinion.

 

[rona]

So I'm going to chime in on the BTU's needed. I have a 1800 sqft 2 story house and heat it with a Enviro Empress insert that is rated at 35k BTU. It was a cold winter here in New Hampshire last year and this stove was completely adequate and was able to keep the entire house, including the 2nd floor, at 74 degrees on its highest setting (5), on the coldest days. I never exceeded 2 bags of pellets per day.

My brother on the other hand has an M55 insert and heats a 1400 sqft ranch and has had issues with having a pellet stove with too many BTU's. The issue has is that the stove is so powerful that he is constantly running it at the lowest setting (1). A pellet stove will run best at it's mid setting and will tend to burn better/cleaner as does his on setting 3 of 5. He can only turn it up that high on the coldest days or he is blasted out of the house with the M55 running. He hasn't had any repair issues with his stove which is set up with and OAK and I haven't had any issues with mine other than a bad barring on my exhaust fan.

With that being said, I'm not necessarily recommending a stove, because both my brother and I were limited to inserts. I think that with a 1600 sqft a 35k BTU stove would probably cut it without a problem, especially if it is a free standing unit and not an insert. Just my humble opinion.

This is why it usually is a WAG as to recommending a certain stove to someone else. We don't know how good the insulation is , how good the windows are, Is the house located out in the open or is it protected from the wind? Does the house have a open floor plan or is there a lot of tiny rooms? I agree that a stove should be run mid setting or more for peak efficiency. I think we can all agree they seem to run best at about 75%. Having said that there is nothing worse then being able to only get the thermometer up to 60 on a cold day. I suspect that's why some people have two stoves for the real cold weather. This is where a newby needs some helpful advice.

 

[persistentmotion]

This is why it usually is a WAG as to recommending a certain stove to someone else. We don't know how good the insulation is , how good the windows are, Is the house located out in the open or is it protected from the wind? Does the house have a open floor plan or is there a lot of tiny rooms? I agree that a stove should be run mid setting or more for peak efficiency. I think we can all agree they seem to run best at about 75%. Having said that there is nothing worse then being able to only get the thermometer up to 60 on a cold day. I suspect that's why some people have two stoves for the real cold weather. This is where a newby needs some helpful advice.

So true on it being a WAG to recommend a stove. Air circulation certainly plays a large role in how far you can spread the BTU's evenly. Also hard to deny that windows and insulation play a huge role in the calculation. I certainly would rather have a stove that is oversized as opposed to one that is undersized.

 

[amynrichie]

This is why it usually is a WAG as to recommending a certain stove to someone else. We don't know how good the insulation is , how good the windows are, Is the house located out in the open or is it protected from the wind? Does the house have a open floor plan or is there a lot of tiny rooms? I agree that a stove should be run mid setting or more for peak efficiency. I think we can all agree they seem to run best at about 75%. Having said that there is nothing worse then being able to only get the thermometer up to 60 on a cold day. I suspect that's why some people have two stoves for the real cold weather. This is where a newby needs some helpful advice.

This is one of my issues! First- I don't have a really good understanding of the difference between labels that say "X" BTU or rated for "X" square feet. For example the Harman Accentra is 40k BTU, says it is expected to heat 900-2400 sf. I would expect that it would do a great job on medium heat most days. On the 50 mph wind days with all 7 of my HUGE windows, it's going to have to work quite a bit harder to heat my 1600sf. Should I expect that 40k BTU will still do the job? The main rooms catch A LOT of the wind, and we are not protected by trees. I need to balance what will be good for the majority of the time, and anything I get is still going to be better than nothing- which is what I have now, since I refuse to burn any more propane!

 

[amynrichie]

I'm also reading installation manuals on various models. With all the windows I have in my house, it's difficult to find a spot where there is 48" clearance from a window. If I'm reading correctly, the accentra requires only a minimum of 9" clearance from a window if the OAK is installed. I will have about 36" in the corner that I'm hoping for. I COULD go through the ceiling. still debating that in my head.