MA permit question

[jackd625]

Hi all, new here and to wood stoves. Hoping I can get some help. Haven't been able to figure it out.

I just bought a house and right before closing the seller told us that they didn't actually have a permit for the wood stove. She said that she had the fire inspector come in and he said it needs around another foot of clearance in the front.

Reading the MA laws it seems like you need 36" of clearance all around, but as long as the stove was installed to the guidelines in the manual it should be all set for reduced clearance. Can anyone help clarify this for me. Am I understanding wrong? I would like to know before sure before I call the inspector up and make a fool of myself.

It's a Dutchwest convection heater 2461

Here's a picture of the set-up.



Also I need to get a new refractory package. The one that is there is wicked damaged. Anyone know where I can get one quick, and not spend an arm and leg?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hardrockmaple]

Welcome.

You can start your parts search here; (broken link removed)

I'd look into some new stove pipe as well.

Sorry, I can't help you with the regulations questions, but I can tell you this. I always use the side door for loading and if you choose to do the same, you will want more protection than I see there.

 

[brogsie]

The manufacturers specifications over ride the code. You will need an owners manual to show the inspector.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

I would be concerned about that stove. By the looks of the stovepipe it looks like it was run pretty hard.

 

[Beer Belly]

The manufacturers specifications over ride the code. You will need an owners manual to show the inspector.

I agree.....when we had ours installed and inspected, the inspector went by the clearances in the manual....but we are in Ct

 

[Rick8325]

I'm in Mass and just had my insert put in. Fist thing my town's inspector did was ask for my manual and his only concern was the hearth clearance. My stove barely made it and with a little "measure from here and not there" tactic he signed off on my permit. I'm not sure about your stove but it does look like most installed stand alone stoves I've seen around our area and they all passed. Just by the looks of your picture your stove looks to have 16-18" clearance which looks to be plenty so another foot sounds absurd. I don't know how Saugus works but in Billerica we just went to town hall's building dept and filled out an application then we installed the stove a few days later then the building inspector came by to sign off on it, not the fire dept. Oh and I believe Mass building departments all use the same form showing the clearances of wood and pellet stoves....don't go by that, you have to go by your stove's manufacturer's requirements for clearances. I never understand why people don't pull permits for things. It's literally like $20-$50 and covers your a$$ in the future. Make sure your insurance company is aware you have this. My insurance didn't go up a cent because I had already had a fireplace. Just a quick glance I think your stove requires 16" in the front. (broken link removed)

Good Luck!

 

[EatenByLimestone]

What is behind the tile behind it? Is it the brick and mortar of a chimney or is there framing between the tile and the chimney?

 

[GeHmTS]

Call the town hall and speak with them. They'll give you the information you need and answer your questions. I was able to get an installation permit for my stove; it costed about $30.00. However, since your stove is already installed, I'm not sure if you need a permit at all. I highly recommend that you contact your insurance company and make sure that they will cover the stove in case of a fire. I called my insurance company and they made me fill out a wood burning stove questionnaire. The questionnaire will specify what they expect in terms of clearance to combustible material.

 

[billb3]

you don't need a permit to own a wood stove
you need one to install it
yours is already installed

pre-existi ng conditions is a grey area

having pulled a permit for a new chimney the (town) inspector interpreted the state's 36 inch rule as a mechanism to enforce a concern with foolishness and unsafe conditions near a stove such as flammable curtains or a couch that may meet the stove manufactuerer's clearances but are clearly unwise.
Also the 36 inch rule can be amended by providing evidence certifying any reductions to that rule ( manufacturer's recommended clearances ). If you have a steel stove welded up by Joe Blow down the street then you have to use the 36 inch rule for clearances to combustibles. <---------- that's how it was explained to me and it makes sense.

I'd make the fire inspector happy.
In large part because an occupancy permit can be revoked for existing fire hazards that violate current codes protecting and ensuring the safety and well-being of occupants.



If push comes to shove and the inspector just won't budge on the foolish interpretation of the state's 36 inch rule slap some tile on some cement board, place it on the floor and remove it once he signs off. Or apply to the state for a variance ( they call it something else) - but this can take over a year and in the meantime your life can be hell.

 

[Slow1]

A couple thoughts here -
1) Inspector or not, your real concern is or at least should be how safe the install is. IF the owners cut corners on the install elsewhere you want to know before burning. I would thus recommend having a certified sweep inspect the whole thing and be sure it is safe.

2) As pointed out already, that stove looks like it was burned hard - I suspect not well maintained either. Before I spent any money fixing it up and/or changing the hearth layout I suggest you look at the cost of a newer stove. You may well be able to get a good quality heater in there for about the same if not less than the cost of retrofitting the hearth and parts to repair that stove. Many newer stoves have lower clearance requirements so you just might fit on that hearth...

 

[darkz71]

I just installed an inset this year. My inspector didn't measure or even read the manual. He just looked at and asked me about the install and if I ever burned before. It was easier than I could have expected, but that's an insert in a large fireplace that was already there. You may have other concerns and I second the recommendation on a cert sweep inspecting it before you burn. You want to be sure it's safe.

 

[Beer Belly]

When we had our Insert installed, our Insurance didn't require an inspection, but we wanted it to be sure it was safe. The Inspector said "The Hearth isn't big enough.....need a Hearth Rug".....so after getting 3 different size Hearth Rugs, and failing inspection each time, he finally told me, "The last Hearth Rug passes for clearances, but does not meet code xxxxx. So, the Wife and I go crazy looking for a rug that meets xxxxx standards.....could not find one.....I called the state to ask "what is code xxxxx"....they said "non combustible material".....I asked "any non combustible material will do"....he said "Yes".....off to Lowes I go and get a sheet of Cement Board, lay it in front of the hearth....passed inspection.....cement board returned, Hearth Rug layed out. Alerting local officials could bite you in the arse......just make sure no flaming logs roll out

 

[Slow1]

I called the state to ask "what is code xxxxx"....they said "non combustible material".....I asked "any non combustible material will do"....he said "Yes".....off to Lowes I go and get a sheet of Cement Board, lay it in front of the hearth....passed inspection.....cement board returned, Hearth Rug layed out.

Don't advocate that action myself. While I realize that the codes have significant safety margins, to knowingly violate them may put you at risk. Having a safe running environment (not just getting the certificate) should always be the objective. While those of us who are not directly involved in the code generation may think we understand the "why" behind each spec, there is very likely something that we're missing.

 

[Beer Belly]

Don't advocate that action myself. While I realize that the codes have significant safety margins, to knowingly violate them may put you at risk. Having a safe running environment (not just getting the certificate) should always be the objective. While those of us who are not directly involved in the code generation may think we understand the "why" behind each spec, there is very likely something that we're missing.

You are correct. What I did forget to mention was that I was within 1 1/2 inches of the Hearth Clearance spec, and the inspector had me a little aggravated that he never mentioned the code requirement till the 3rd inspection.

 

[Slow1]

You are correct. What I did forget to mention was that I was within 1 1/2 inches of the Hearth Clearance spec, and the inspector had me a little aggravated that he never mentioned the code requirement till the 3rd inspection.

Did that requirement come from the code or from the installation manual? My understanding is that the manual over-rides the generic specs, but what do I know... everything I know I learned here

 

[Beer Belly]

Did that requirement come from the code or from the installation manual? My understanding is that the manual over-rides the generic specs, but what do I know... everything I know I learned here

Installation Manual....the Hearth was just a tad too short

 

[Makers Mark]

Good ol common sense goes along way. I agree with beer belly after owning a grocery store for 20 yrs, the less government involvement , the better.

 

[Gboutdoors]

GET a permit and get it inspected! Also have the chimney cleaned. I have been in the building industry for 30 years now and the one thing in a house you do not want to cut corners on or go cheap on is an appliance that will be up to 600-700 deg. and hold fire! Can the inspector be an a-- yes but so will your insurance company if something were to happen and there is no permit and no inspection.

I am not a big fan of most government rules and regs but these are safety issues. I did my own install 4 years ago on our new house and could have gotten away with no inspection or permit but I find it reassuring to know that another set of eyes looked at it and gave it the thumbs up. Now putting a shed up in the back yard that's another story altogether

 

[jackd625]

Hi all,

Finally made some progress here. Thanks for all the responses. I got in touch with the fire inspector and he couldn't begin to figure out why he would have said it needed another foot in front of it. He said just what the manufacturer says.

I also had a certified chimney sweep come in and inspect and clean it. He said the stove is in great condition, and everything has been clean. He also said that the pipe is fine. He checked it all out though and said besides looking ugly it had no problems. He took it all apart and everything. I also have myself wondering if I broke the refractory package in the first place...

I've also got it all insured and covered.

SOOO I guess I'm good to go.

Now I need to figure out where to get wood. And where to stack it and keep it dry. I'm a nut about pests, so I don't even really want it near my house....

 

[Beer Belly]

Hi all,

Finally made some progress here. Thanks for all the responses. I got in touch with the fire inspector and he couldn't begin to figure out why he would have said it needed another foot in front of it. He said just what the manufacturer says.

I also had a certified chimney sweep come in and inspect and clean it. He said the stove is in great condition, and everything has been clean. He also said that the pipe is fine. He checked it all out though and said besides looking ugly it had no problems. He took it all apart and everything. I also have myself wondering if I broke the refractory package in the first place...

I've also got it all insured and covered.

SOOO I guess I'm good to go.

Now I need to figure out where to get wood. And where to stack it and keep it dry. I'm a nut about pests, so I don't even really want it near my house....

Sounds great.

 

[tsquini]

They care about clearances to flammable items and that the stove installed to manufactures code. Read the owners manual it will let you know the clearances with a single or double walled stove pipe. If you meet or exceed the clearances to non-flammable material you are fine.

 

[mellow]

Find a dealer with Kiln Dried firewood for this year so it will be good to go and you won't have to worry about bugs: http://firewoods.net/ne/firewood-MA.aspx

Buy a couple cords of Maple so they will be ready next year and a couple cords of Oak so they will be ready the year after that.

 

[Gboutdoors]

Good job now start the wood pile for next year and the year after and the year after

 

[jackd625]

Thanks all. Can't wait to use it. Thanks for the link on the wood. And the mention of kiln dried wood. I want to grab some, maybe 1/4.

I did notice there is a branch from a tree that extends way out and is a few feet over the chimney. Was going to cut it today, but they said it was going to rain. We ended up with a few inches of snow. Maybe I'll try tomorrow if I think I can do it safely before the games start.

I have another stove but I think my questions for it warrant a new thread....

 

[topoftheriver]

From the look of your stove, I would replace the stove pipe. The tile around your stove looks sufficient enough to meet code requirements. The maximum clearances recommended are if you have a free standing stove near areas that are flammables. Generally it is 36" in the rear and the sides. If you have brick or tile, that can reduce that clearance and hearths need to be 20" in most case. The fire inspector may have his or hers own ideas and could require you to do more. That doesn't always mean you have to but why fight them. If something ever happens, the insurance company may be speaking with them also. Safety is the order of the day. Let's face it. Wood burning is inexpensive so don't compromise yourself on safety requirements,