Mansfield Secondary tubes - replacing for the third time in 17 years

[pcguy2u]

Here's the thread from the second replacement: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/air-tubes-crossroad-on-a-mansfield.84641/

Not impressed with the longevity of the tubes. The ones that are about to be replaced are SS but do I understand correctly, they are supposed to be SS/Titanium?

The dealer that I purchased the stove from was not going to honor the warranty and said that HS "says they no longer have a lifetime warranty". Despite what the owner's manual says.

HS told me in an email:
"So, the tubes themselves would be covered, just not shipping or labor. You can have Warming Trends contact us if they have any questions about the warranty. That model had a lifetime warranty on the tubes , the current models have a different warranty program, thus the possibility for confusion by the dealer."

Have not heard from the dealer yet, BTW, the cost for of the parts that I thought about replacing was $992 plus tax and shipping; that was mostly the tubes at $137 each.

More to the point on this. Can anyone steer me in the right direction as to how part #47 in the attached photo is supposed to fit. Tried several different ways but, no luck.


TIA, Nick

 

[EatenByLimestone]

What other parts are you replacing now? Did you also replace these parts in the past?

 

[pcguy2u]

No, no other parts previously; I underestimated the cost of the parts, so I've scaled back the replacements since they really didn't need to be replaced.

As for the part in question, it is described as a "baffle support", based upon which I infer that it should install somewhere just more than 12" (board dimension) from the back of the box??? That would place it between two tubes, but it doesn't want to cooperate.

Nick

 

[bholler]

No, no other parts previously; I underestimated the cost of the parts, so I've scaled back the replacements since they really didn't need to be replaced.

As for the part in question, it is described as a "baffle support", based upon which I infer that it should install somewhere just more than 12" (board dimension) from the back of the box??? That would place it between two tubes, but it doesn't want to cooperate.

Nick

What pipe temps are you running at? One replacement is very uncommon but 3 is unheard of

 

[pcguy2u]

Never much over 450f, mostly just under 400.

 

[bholler]

Never much over 450f, mostly just under 400.

Is that a surface measurement on si gle wall pipe?

 

[pcguy2u]

As read from the top surface of the stove and just now verified with a spot meter.

 

[bholler]

As read from the top surface of the stove and just now verified with a spot meter.

Ok that isn't pipe temps. Especially on soapstone the stove top temps take a long time to catch up. You can easily be overfiring pretty badly before the top gets hot

 

[pcguy2u]

So wh*at you're saying is that when I read that some folks run their stove at 750+ they are saying the readings are from the stove interior? Given that's true, what would the max temp reading be on the top of soapstone? More-so, what would you do to prevent this kind of situation going forward? ie, what is the max temp for the box interior?

BTW, with a spot-meter the pipes read 792f with the soapstone reading 295f.

Some results from a google search:
-------------------------------------------------------------
How hot does a wood stove firebox get?
Good wood stoves usually consider 275-575 as good burning range. Over 575 on stove top temp is considered over firing. I've hit 1000 or so, Usually because I loaded it up to get the fire going with the air wide open and or door cracked and walked away.Feb 7, 2017
I think this may be for a all metal stove???

------------------------------------------------------------
between 400 and 600 degrees Fahrenheit

Typically, the temperature inside a wood-burning stove can reach between 400 and 600 degrees Fahrenheit. However, it can reach 800 to 900 degrees Fahrenheit when burning at maximum capacity.Jan 27, 2023
------------------------------------------------------------
And here's what the Mansfield manual says:
Monitoring Stove Temperatures
Monitor the stove temperatures with a stove thermometer (available from your dealer) placed on the top center stone of the stove. The thermometer could read as high as 600F (427 C) on high burn and 300-400F (149-240C) on low burn.

If I read the manual suggestions correctly, that is exactly what I'm doing???

Maybe we are on to something here, but I'm confused...:0(

 

[bholler]

So wh*at you're saying is that when I read that some folks run their stove at 750+ they are saying the readings are from the stove interior? Given that's true, what would the max temp reading be on the top of soapstone? More-so, what would you do to prevent this kind of situation going forward? ie, what is the max temp for the box interior?

BTW, with a spot-meter the pipes read 792f with the soapstone reading 295f.

Some results from a google search:
-------------------------------------------------------------
How hot does a wood stove firebox get?
Good wood stoves usually consider 275-575 as good burning range. Over 575 on stove top temp is considered over firing. I've hit 1000 or so, Usually because I loaded it up to get the fire going with the air wide open and or door cracked and walked away.Feb 7, 2017
I think this may be for a all metal stove???

------------------------------------------------------------
between 400 and 600 degrees Fahrenheit

Typically, the temperature inside a wood-burning stove can reach between 400 and 600 degrees Fahrenheit. However, it can reach 800 to 900 degrees Fahrenheit when burning at maximum capacity.Jan 27, 2023
------------------------------------------------------------
And here's what the Mansfield manual says:
Monitoring Stove Temperatures
Monitor the stove temperatures with a stove thermometer (available from your dealer) placed on the top center stone of the stove. The thermometer could read as high as 600F (427 C) on high burn and 300-400F (149-240C) on low burn.

If I read the manual suggestions correctly, that is exactly what I'm doing???

Maybe we are on to something here, but I'm confused...:0(

Forget about stove top temps especially with soapstone they lag way behind internal and Exhaust temps. Run it by using stove pipe temps. If you have single wall pipe a simple surface thermometer will work fine. If it's double wall you will need a probe thermometer.

With a steel stove stove top temps of 700 or even 800 are fine but soapstone is very different. BTW internal firebox temps are in excess of 1200 degrees

You are obviously running the stove to hot if your going through tubes. I have been working on hundreds of stoves a year for about 15 years now and have only ever had to replace 3 sets of tubes.

 

[pcguy2u]

Maybe what we have is a misunderstanding re "stove pipe temps"? My initial understanding was that you're referring to the secondary air tubes, but now???

The stove is not fired up at the moment, but I'll check that (single wall flue pipe at the point just above the stove-top??) next time I have it going.

Seem to recall that I took that reading in the past and it was similar to the soapstone surface reading.

 

[pcguy2u]

Let me clarify what I meant when I said above... "BTW, with a spot-meter the pipes read 792f with the soapstone reading 295f.". The word pipes referred to the secondary air tubes and not the flue.

To me that seems to confuse the issue even further.

 

[bholler]

Maybe what we have is a misunderstanding re "stove pipe temps"? My initial understanding was that you're referring to the secondary air tubes, but now???

The stove is not fired up at the moment, but I'll check that (single wall flue pipe at the point just above the stove-top??) next time I have it going.

Seem to recall that I took that reading in the past and it was similar to the soapstone surface reading.

Yes the connector pipe going from the stove to the chimney the surface of single wall should be at max 500 but should normally be running 250 to 300.

 

[pcguy2u]

Just brought the stove up to operating temp. In the process of getting to the top, the stove pipe flue registered 375f while the soapstone surface was still in the range of low 200's. Now the both read 320-332.

No clue there; well within the stated operating temps at the surface and not too far off your 300 norm.

Readings were taken with both a digital spot meter and the surface thermometer; they were relatively close.

 

[pcguy2u]

As the load of wood came to optimal burn, everything dropped to 290f +-.

 

[begreen]

Was driftwood burned on occasion?

 

[pcguy2u]

Only Cypress and Eucalyptus.

 

[begreen]

Going through 2 sets of secondary tubes is very unusual. It sounds like something is corrosive. That's why I asked about driftwood. Corroded tubes used to be more common when they were made of mild steel, but modern stoves use stainless. Has anything been added to the fire at times, like a creosote remover?

Can you post some pictures of the failing tubes?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

those packets you throw into fire to change it’s color are salts too.

 

[pcguy2u]

No added chemicals, just firewood...