Might need a new stove what to do?

[Alaskan_IB]

Hello guys,

I just ran across this forum and gleaned some really good information. I would like to start out by saying thanks for any information I get and I hope the noob doesn't drive you nuts.

So here is my question:

My stove is really old and says "Portland Furnace CO." which I cannot find any info on for the life of me. The stove has tons of air leaks around the doors and the air vent is a small circular wheel and is completely useless; it has another large chamber above it which I think was installed to reclaim heat. The exhaust is just forced to run a long course before it goes out the stack (makes it smoke when I load it) It can hold 26-28 inch logs and is about two feet high or more inside the box; the stove itself is round like a massive looking barrel but is a very thick grade steel. It has absolutely no seals in it at all. I can load it totally full and after sitting four 7 hours or so all the wood is gone even on low. So I thought about buying a new one. But before you answer let me give you a little interesting picture (in your head) about the setup.

My house was built in 1972 and has three wings, all wings meet in the middle and have open ducts running from the middle of the home (which is a large area dedicated for the stove and water heater) to all wings. The current setup has a lot of masonry bricks to form a octagon shape in the middle of the home for the fire place. This thing is probably 8.5 ft high and 200 square feet. The wood fire place is in the front section of the masonry with only the access door showing from the outside of the bricks for wood loading. The heat stays inside of the room which gets really freaking hot!! this in turn gets transferred to the bricks and it radiated for hours on end.

So my thought was initially to buy a Cat stove but after thinking will there be enough heat transfer to keep this room warm? Soapstone is out of the question because of price and weight even though the middle of the home is concrete. I thought a non-cat might work but it seems everything requires power now. The current stove might need renovation and somehow seals made for it, the nice thing is that it radiates a lot of heat without power. It just burns up a but load of wood and we did get it dampened down once and it sucked on heat output. Sp Maybe a new style furnace is in order. Here are my thoughts.

1. Max Caddy (lots of power usage though and loud)
2. England furnace (smaller but less noise and less efficient too)
3. Canyon™ ST310 (large stove and a non-cat stove. puts out alot of heat and looks like it will radiate without power)


Here is a basic floor plan of the house with a picture showing the location of the stove in the middle. Let me know what you guys think and sorry for such a long winded explanation.

 

[madison]

I would suggest posting a couple pics of the current hearth with dimensions, as well as approximate dimensions (sq ft/volume) of the home. Seems like a pretty unique home, pics of that would be interesting as well.

We all see Alaska as your home, so no doubt get the largest appliance that will fit the current hearth as well as meet the clearance requirements... That is, If you are not planning on hearth modifications.

 

[summit]

sounds like you need a large convection stove to move the air around in a better fashion

 

[Highbeam]

If power consumption is a concern then forget about furnaces. If cost and weight (for shipping?)is a concern then it is clear to me that you need a big huge plate steel wood stove. None of them require blowers or electricity. Only the non-cat stoves will generate that high heat output that you seem to like but the tradeoff will be shorter burn times than the largest cat stove which is the common Blaze King.

Soapstone isn't too expensive. They cost the same as medium grade plate steel stove. They cost more than a hardware store stove. But I don't think you woudl want a soapstone stove anyway.

How big is the house?

To replicate the heat output characteristics of your current stove you'll need the largest plate steel, non-cat, woodstove that you can find. There are some big ones from Country, Quadrafire, and even PE among others. Have you already cut cords and cords of wood to fit the current stove at 28"? That will be a problem.

 

[begreen]

If I understand the desired effect, a stove like the PE or Quads, with excellent side shielding, would not work well for you. Is this correct? From what I read it sounds like you want a stove that radiates strongly. If so, perhaps an Englander NC-30 or the big Country stove could work well for you.

Is there a ceiling fan in the center room? It looks like the house has a lot of exposed surface area. This doesn't seem like a practical design for cold country. How has it worked out?

 

[Wet1]

How many sq ft are you heating???

I guess I would start with seeing what other wood burning locals are heating with. I know "wolfkiller" and several others living in Alaska (I think he's in North Pole) use a Blaze King 'King'. I think WK is heating 2500 sq ft and he said the BKK was enough to heat his place by itself until it got down to -44°. That to me is pretty impressive. Do a search for "wolfkiller" and read some of his threads. The BKK is a large steel cat stove, so it will produce mucho heat. Short of the BKK, there aren't many other commercial products I can think of off the top of my head that guys up north rave about on a regular basis. It seems like the folks in your area generally favor the BKK (and I assume for good reason), but I'd ask around.

Pook brings up a good point, it sounds like you might have some type of MH. If so, keep that in mind should you decide to replace what you already have. Pics and more drawings of the design could be helpful.

 

[Wet1]

It looks like the house has a lot of exposed surface area. This doesn't seem like a practical design for cold country. How has it worked out?

That immediately jumped out at me as well. Strange being that far north...

 

[Todd]

A good radiant stove would work great for that space since it would be smack dab in the middle, unless the square footage is very large. And I don't see a problem with a cat stove as far as heat output goes, you don't have to burn them on low all the time. Look at Harman and Vemont Castings, they have some large top loading radiant stoves.

 

[learnin to burn]

Check out this link. I know they are in the lower 48 but an e-mail or phone call might get you some info and save you a hunk of money.


http://sjheating.com/

 

[Alaskan_IB]

Hello again guys and thanks for the ideas. As for the home its actually in Joseph Oregon....I am up in Alaska working right now and have no access to home to get pictures. The house is 2,400 square feet and the center hearth is actually an open design inside the octagon room. There is a fan upstairs that blows into the room bringing all the heat back down then dispersing it out the vents. The bricks are not actually encasing the stove its only two bricks thick or so and the stove is actually accessible from inside the room. That's where the damper, water heater and the fans are located. I believe you guys are probably right about the radiant style stove, a catalyst style probably wont pump out enough radiant heat for me. Another stove that I just stumbled upon is the Hearthstone Equinox, that looks like one seriously great stove and it would radiate a lot of heat along with a huge box. My current stove is probably twice that size but looses a lot of heat out the stack. Something like this might work because it would radiate the heat and burn better. All my logs are cut to 20" inches and I have around 8-10 cords stored up on my 26 acres. So at least I dont have a big pile of waste if I bought a new stove.

Robert

 

[Todd]

I just saw the Equinox for the first time yesterday. What a big beautiful rock it is, but also very expensive. The store I was at wanted $3800! :bug: But it also qualifies for the 30% tax credit, so that would take a good chunk out of that price. I think it would be a good choice for you.

 

[Alaskan_IB]

So how does that tax credit work? You buy the stove then turn in your old one? Or do you provide information on your old stove? When the stove is bought do you get provided the forms needed then in tax season you get the write off?


Robert


PS: I think the Equinox is the stove I will go with, it has the largest box, radiates the most heat and looks fantastic.

 

[blades]

tax incentive is a credit on your 2009 1040 and like all credits a bunch of rules/percentages to go along with. if you do a search here there was a discussion about it a short time ago

 

[Highbeam]

PS: I think the Equinox is the stove I will go with, it has the largest box, radiates the most heat and looks fantastic.

So the EQ has a 4CF firebox, requires an 8" flue, takes 25" logs, costs 3900$, and puts out 120,000 mx btu. It has the super cool side door like my heritage and does look great. I am biased on looks since the EQ is simply a supersized heritage.

Really though there's nothing too special about the above stats except the looks.

The BK King, while large at 4.3 CF, is no powerhouse. Its max output is 90,000 btu if you "stand in front of (it) and frequently load fuel". Compare that to 97,000 btu from the PE summit at 1800$ .

 

[Alaskan_IB]

I don't want to start a "Stove fire war" but with my limited knowledge I was just thinking that if I replace my stove which is:
A. Huge and around 7 square feet so the closest thing is the Equinox
B. The stove i have looses lots of heat out the stack and has a lot of air leaks.
C. The soapstone will radiate better heat for me into the masonry bricks I have. They are only two bricks thick (maybe six inches deep) but will hold heat for some time. Not to mention the concrete pad it all sits on.

so in conclusion I just thought a stove like this might work best due to the fact I have a 2,400 sft home and al ot of brick to around the stove with the high output BTU. Just my 2 cents

 

[BrotherBart]

Heat that Equinox up and something is going to to stay warm around there for a pretty long time. Not long enough to justify the price, but for a long time.

 

[karri0n]

I might actually need to agree with pook partially here, expecially on the "send pics", or aty least a further detailed description of the unit you have.

It doesn't sound like a masonry heater to me. Masonry heaters don't have steel barrels as they are made to burn at super high efficiency like we try to do in our steel stoves using firebrick ,skamol, pumice, etc. Steel pulls the heat out too fast, killing your efficiency.

The above chamber may be a re-burn chamber. Do you ever see any flame in there when it's cranking at max?

The long course for the smoke to travel does sound similar to the contraflow system used in masonry heaters.

It sounds like this might be a(in need of maintenance) Rocket Stove. These are esentially inexpensive DIY projects aimed at making high efficiency secondary burn stoves out of readily attainable or easily fabricated parts.

Taking all this into account, and the size you describe, it sounds like the thing you have now is a giant massive monster, and no Equinox, Englander, or BK stove is gonna push heat like the thing does. If that thing is having trouble heating the home, then insulation is likely an issue you will need to fix if you want to try to heat the place using just a stove.


What are the actual dimensions of the unit? I may be misinterpeting as well.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

i didn't take the time to read every reply, so sorry if this has been adressed
your stove was never intended to have an air tight door seal. it wouldn't draw at all if the dial is closed. its design is like an older fisher. people are always trying to add a gasket where one isn't supposed to go! some of my "creative" fisher customers over the years found out a woodstove can belch fire when starved for air, and the door is opened quikly...

(broken link removed to http://woodheatstoves.com/woodstove-saftey-and-maintenance-tips-p-12042.html)
here is a link you might find handy

 

[Alaskan_IB]

I wont be able to get up to the house for pictures for a few weeks. Once I do I will post them all up along with dimensions, along with my new ideas on how to convert over to a new stove.

Robert