morning restart routine for my Englander 17-VL

[Charles2]

Here's what I'm doing:

1. Shovel out all the ash and coals into a 5-gallon bucket.

2. Put lid on bucket, take it outside, shake it up to separate ash from coals.

3. Remove lid, scoop coals off the top into a 1-gallon bucket.

4. Dump 1-gallon bucket of coals into stove 3 times. Discard excess coals and ash.

5. Restart stove with fresh wood.

Is there anything I can do to make the process quicker, cleaner, more efficient or less
likely to burn me through my gloves?

 

[jb6l6gc]

rake the coals from the ash inside the stove and just scoop the ash out

 

[Charles2]

rake the coals from the ash inside the stove and just scoop the ash out

That's the first thing I tried but it didn't work well at all. There's too much total volume of ash and coals to work with inside the stove.

 

[edge-of-the-woods]

Do the coals naturally sift to the top? What size coals are you looking to keep?

Maybe make an insert that fits into your 5-gallon bucket out of hardware cloth. Something that you can just lift up and shake, so the ash falls out but any coals 1/2" or larger will stay inside. Then transfer the coals from that, so you're not scooping or changing buckets. Heck, I think I might try making this over the weekend. It's $8.00 with tax for a small roll of 1/2" hardware cloth. Cut and shape it with tin snips and some heavy gloves...just push it into position and shape, secure it with twists of wire where needed.



http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-2-in-x-2-ft-x-5-ft-Hardware-Cloth-308221HD/204331879

 

[Smock2015]

That sounds like a good idea! If you make it let us know how it works!

 

[saskwoodburner]

You need to empty the ashes every morning?

 

[Jags]

Wondering why such a small stove has so many coals left after an overnight burn? Why not let the stove consume them instead of dealing with them in the morning? I would guess a pinch more primary air at night might be the ticket.

 

[kinetic711]

If you end up with lots of chunky coals in the morning, try this.
1- Rake the coals forward in the stove.
2- Put 2 small splits east-west on the coals, 1 in front of the other.
3- Open your primary air full and let it blaze.
I do this when I need to. The stove jumps to about 550F and really burns up those chunky coals. When it dies down again, just rake out your coals and reload normally. This will save a lot of unnecessary work.

 

[Charles2]

Do the coals naturally sift to the top? What size coals are you looking to keep?

Maybe make an insert that fits into your 5-gallon bucket out of hardware cloth. Something that you can just lift up and shake, so the ash falls out but any coals 1/2" or larger will stay inside. Then transfer the coals from that, so you're not scooping or changing buckets. Heck, I think I might try making this over the weekend. It's $8.00 with tax for a small roll of 1/2" hardware cloth. Cut and shape it with tin snips and some heavy gloves...just push it into position and shape, secure it with twists of wire where needed.

The coals and ash are all mixed together in the stove. I don't care what size coals I keep, as long as there are enough for a restart.

You need to empty the ashes every morning?

Yes, the stove is simply too small to do otherwise.

Wondering why such a small stove has so many coals left after an overnight burn? Why not let the stove consume them instead of dealing with them in the morning? I would guess a pinch more primary air at night might be the ticket.

Yes, I was wondering how to create more ash and fewer coals. I'm scared to allow too much air lest the stove overfire while I'm sleeping.

If you end up with lots of chunky coals in the morning, try this.
1- Rake the coals forward in the stove.
2- Put 2 small splits east-west on the coals, 1 in front of the other.
3- Open your primary air full and let it blaze.
I do this when I need to. The stove jumps to about 550F and really burns up those chunky coals. When it dies down again, just rake out your coals and reload normally. This will save a lot of unnecessary work.

This will make it even more unbearably hot to work.

 

[BigFir]

You need to empty the ashes every morning?

That's what I was thinking? What kind of wood are you burning? We are used to Fir, I have emptied the nc30 3 times this year, burning since early October.
Would there be less if you burned a little hotter?

Edit: you just answered my questions

 

[Jags]

I have emptied the nc30 3 times this year, burning since early October.

You could store 3 of the 17's in your NC30.

I'm scared to allow too much air lest the stove overfire while I'm sleeping.

Try it sometime when you are gonna be home (weekends, or whatever) to see how the stove reacts.

 

[saskwoodburner]

Yes, the stove is simply too small to do otherwise.

I'm telling you now, it's your wood or your burning technique. See my sig line, I have the same stove, burn poplar, have -30 to -40 weather sometimes, and I still don't empty ashes out every morning. Give it slightly more air before bed (just a tick) until you find more ash and less coals in the morning. Some black coals left over isn't the end of the world either, I have them often, but they light up again when put on top of the red ones.

 

[kinetic711]

Maybe I'm not being clear. Don't shovel out the stove. The whole purpose of the stove is to provide heat, so hotter = gooder. The coals will burn down and then you have room to reload.

 

[Charles2]

Try it sometime when you are gonna be home (weekends, or whatever) to see how the stove reacts.

How am I going to see how the stove reacts if I'm asleep?

I'm telling you now, it's your wood or your burning technique.

I watch the stove temp with a IR thermometer and I am always worried about overfiring.

What kind of wood are you burning?

I have a variety of species that I can't identify, some of which I would call weed trees. But it's all extremely dry.

I should tell y'all that I'm actually getting such a huge pile of coals that I want to shovel and sift twice a day.

 

[saskwoodburner]

I think what Jags is saying, is to get your stove running with a good load, shut down the air as if you were settling it in before bed, and see how the fire reacts without fiddling with it.

What temps are you reading on the front of the stove above the door on a good burn? What about the sides? What temp is the outside of your pipe coming off the stove about 4 inches up? How about 18" up the pipe? You have double wall pipe? When you start the stove up, how much do you leave the door cracked....eighth, quarter, half inch?

If you can check these, we can at least find some SWAG where yours is running compared to mine.

Too much air while starting up can gas your load, leaving you with a short burn time, and lots of coals. Not enough air can leave you with the black coals in the morning.

 

[Jags]

How am I going to see how the stove reacts if I'm asleep?

In the same way that you don't really know what your pet gold fish is doing when you are asleep. You can only base it off of observation during waking hours. If you load the stove, tune it down for the long haul during WAKING hours, it would be a good guess that it will have the same reaction during SLEEPING hours.

 

[Charles2]

I think what Jags is saying, is to get your stove running with a good load, shut down the air as if you were settling it in before bed, and see how the fire reacts without fiddling with it.

What temps are you reading on the front of the stove above the door on a good burn? What about the sides? What temp is the outside of your pipe coming off the stove about 4 inches up? How about 18" up the pipe? You have double wall pipe? When you start the stove up, how much do you leave the door cracked....eighth, quarter, half inch?

If you can check these, we can at least find some SWAG where yours is running compared to mine.

Too much air while starting up can gas your load, leaving you with a short burn time, and lots of coals. Not enough air can leave you with the black coals in the morning.

How do you define "good burn"? The manual says normal operation occurs between 350F and 550F, which is where I try to run it.

When the front of the stove above the door reads 550F, so do the sides, and the double-wall pipe reads 270F both at 4" and 18". I crack the door 2" on start-up.

I'm also confused because the troubleshooting part of the manual says coal build-up in the firebox is caused by operating the stove at high burn rates, yet I have the damper as low as possible after I get the stove over 500F.

 

[saskwoodburner]

I don't see anything wrong with those temps Charles2. I try to keep my stove front in the 480-540 F range, the sides will be somewhat cooler though on my stove. Anywhere from 260-300 F 4" up on the pipe and there will be an efficient burn happening. 18" up, the temps are 220-250 F.

I crack the door at most 1" if I flub a fire/not enough coals, to create a false draft, but only for a couple minutes at most. It blows any heat up the stack and cools the stove. But normally on a reload or cold start, 1/4" door cracked will give me enough.

Maybe our different wood makes all the difference. Do you have any cottonwood down there? I burn poplar, and it's known for not leaving a lot of coals.

 

[Slacker]

Why modify a extra shovel by drilling some 1/2" or so holes in it and sift enough coals out for a relight?

 

[Charles2]

Do you have any cottonwood down there?

I don't know what cottonwood looks like. I have some sweetgum that I cut back in the spring that I hope is dry enough to burn soon.