my beloved dell point europa heated my home for the last 7 yrs changed motors and board blew @start

[landry757]

hi
heated 7 seasons with this never a problem
combustion blower and feed auger were getting noisey so i ordered new ones from claude put them in and on start up it ran ok,, but as soon as the new feed auger kicked on the stove display went loopy and the new combustion fan slowly slowed to a stop, once the fan stopped both feed and ash augers ran nonstop until i unplugged it.
i checked and rechecked everything all i had was an error for the feed auger fuse which was blown i put the old feed auger back in and the error code would not go away even with new fuse
i sent the board to claude after speaking with him about what happened he indicated the chip is corrupted.
this machine ran perfect before i replaced the noisy motors. never a problem for 7 years
i have an extensive electromechanical background all my experience indicates the feed motor spiked the board, so now im out a board and have a defective feed motor i just purchased.

any suggestions or ideas?

 

[SidecarFlip]

How does a shaded pole synchronous motor produce a voltage spike? I wanna hear that.

Your love affair is over.... Electronic components do fail after a period of time...

My suggestion is buy a new board and continue on.

 

[vinny11950]

Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear this happened.

It is hard to pinpoint one thing with certainty. You could be chasing this problem down forever and never find the answer on what really happened.

Just double check all the connections, grounds, fuses and so on. We have heard stories of motors whining when the electricity being fed to the home was not the cleanest (maybe that knocked out the board too).

 

[landry757]

How does a shaded pole synchronous motor produce a voltage spike? I wanna hear that.

Your love affair is over.... Electronic components do fail after a period of time...

My suggestion is buy a new board and continue on.

so i should just roll the dice and toss a 500+ board at it and hope the new motor dont take out take out another board? just throw parts at it eh?
do you have experience with dell point stoves specifically?

 

[landry757]

Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear this happened.

It is hard to pinpoint one thing with certainty. You could be chasing this problem down forever and never find the answer on what really happened.

Just double check all the connections, grounds, fuses and so one. We have heard stories of motors whining when the electricity being fed to the home was not the cleanest (maybe that knocked out the board too).

i went over everything several times and found nothing. i have always run this machine on a surge protector since it was new. i run anything electronic on them. its most likely not power. the stove went haywire the instant the new auger motor started to turn. on the first fire it up after installing the motor.

anyone know of a company that tests and repairs boards?

 

[SidecarFlip]

so i should just roll the dice and toss a 500+ board at it and hope the new motor dont take out take out another board? just throw parts at it eh?
do you have experience with dell point stoves specifically?

No (read my signature line) but they are all basically the same and operate on the same principles and share components as well. Only 2 makers of drive motors and 3 of circulation fans so the parts playing field is pretty narrow.

Where stoves differ is the control boards. Every maker has their own design. You have 3 options on the board, First, pony up for a new one, Second, there is a seller on Flea-Bay that repairs boards (you might want to look there and Third, if you are an electromechanical engineer, I would think you can handle a simple VOM and soldering iron so do your own diagnosis and go to Digi-Key and get the parts. Everything on the board is replaceable with the exception of the IC's. Those are proprietary.

I still want to know how a shaded pole synchronous motor can cause a voltage spike......

 

[SidecarFlip]

Furthermore 7 years is a good run with no appreciable replacements. I set aside $150.00 per season for replacement parts. You are way on the good side, 500 for a board is chump change after 7 years.

7 years for any components (including the board) in a basically hostile atmosphere of excess heat, dust and intermittent use is commendable.

I'd like to tell you something you want to hear... but I can't.

 

[Bioburner]

I bet it was a dust bunny chewing on something. Them rodents love destroying anything that's important. If one disturbs their nesting ground all hell can break out. A spot of errant carbon from a stove tare down can lead to a disaster too. Found all sorts of things floating around the back of stoves. Changing out of motors using wire nuts can be a problem if a stripped piece of copper springs out and lands in the right spot. I've been digging around the backs of stoves for over thirty years and still find something else to send a stove into a tail spin.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

How does a shaded pole synchronous motor produce a voltage spike? I wanna hear that.

I still want to know how a shaded pole synchronous motor can cause a voltage spike......

Okay, I'll tell you.
But first I have to say that I do not believe this is pertinent to this board failure.
The field winding of a synchronous motor, shaded pole motor, induction motor, take your pick builds a magnetic field. Energy is stored in that magnetic field. The collapsing magnetic field returns an electric current to the supply as it collapses. If there is no place for that current to go, the Voltage at the ends of the winding will rise until it finds a path for the current. If you are unlucky enough to interrupt the supply to the motor when the winding current is at it's peak, it can produce a very high Voltage. Enough to damage the triac that is controlling the applied power.
It is a stretch to think that the induced spike could also affect the microcontroller on the board, but it can't be ruled out.
It would take a number of things going wrong at the same time to get there, but many Engineers don't design for worst case, multiple failures. They either don't think of the scenarios or they are trying to keep the cost of materials down.
But, as I said, I don't think that's what happened here.

 

[landry757]

No (read my signature line) but they are all basically the same and operate on the same principles and share components as well. Only 2 makers of drive motors and 3 of circulation fans so the parts playing field is pretty narrow.

Where stoves differ is the control boards. Every maker has their own design. You have 3 options on the board, First, pony up for a new one, Second, there is a seller on Flea-Bay that repairs boards (you might want to look there and Third, if you are an electromechanical engineer, I would think you can handle a simple VOM and soldering iron so do your own diagnosis and go to Digi-Key and get the parts. Everything on the board is replaceable with the exception of the IC's. Those are proprietary.

I still want to know how a shaded pole synchronous motor can cause a voltage spike......

well
1st of all no where did i say a "voltage spike"
2nd of all no where did i mention i am an " engineer"
3rd of all if you did actually have any knowledge of a dell point you would know they are well know for bad auger motors taking out the board.

so as in my comment if you read it , the new auger motor the instant it began to turn is when it all went to hell.
and also in my comment it states the chip may be compromised, so where exactly would i get one of those?
so my post was seeking some actual helpful info from someone that actually knows about the dell point stoves and isnt just someone bored at the keyboard seeking an argument

 

[Harvey Schneider]

well
1st of all no where did i say a "voltage spike"
2nd of all no where did i mention i am an " engineer"
3rd of all if you did actually have any knowledge of a dell point you would know they are well know for bad auger motors taking out the board.

so as in my comment if you read it , the new auger motor the instant it began to turn is when it all went to hell.
and also in my comment it states the chip may be compromised, so where exactly would i get one of those?
so my post was seeking some actual helpful info from someone that actually knows about the dell point stoves and isnt just someone bored at the keyboard seeking an argument

Your use of the phrase "spiked the board" while colorful is also misleading. It is easy to interpret that as referring to a Voltage spike.
If you're saying that the control board is know to have a failure issue with bad auger motors, Why didn't you test the motor before you installed it. Okay, so my hindsight is 20/20. I'm not sure I would have thought to test it either.
Can you bench test the motor now to confirm that it is defective? I would start with an Ohm meter to make sure it isn't a dead short before I plug it into the wall.
All production lines have some level of DOA product. I don't know of any that will cover consequential damages. They, at best, will make good on the cost of the product they delivered to you.
Sometimes, lifes a groan.

 

[landry757]

I bet it was a dust bunny chewing on something. Them rodents love destroying anything that's important. If one disturbs their nesting ground all hell can break out. A spot of errant carbon from a stove tare down can lead to a disaster too. Found all sorts of things floating around the back of stoves. Changing out of motors using wire nuts can be a problem if a stripped piece of copper springs out and lands in the right spot. I've been digging around the backs of stoves for over thirty years and still find something else to send a stove into a tail spin.

yeah i scoured every inch of this thing to be sure no loose pins wires grounds etc. i ran a vending machine refurbishing shop for 8 years and refurbed hot tubs for 6 years ive seen many pin /harness /rodent issues .
i checked several times for all the usual suspects..and rechecked
my biggest concern is repairing or replacing the board without at least digging for more info, i just dont want it to take out another board on me.

 

[Arti]

If you are familiar with electrical trouble shooting techniques why not use them on the pellet stove.
A 5 dollar multi meter from HF will give you a lot of information.
Checking ohm reading across windings as well to ground will give you an idea of motor condition. It doesn't matter if the motors you use are 12 volt or 120 electric testing is basically the same.
If I was working on it the addition of inline fuses to each motor would be installed for over current protection,
At 500 a pop for a circuit board it would be wise to take some precautions for the start up, I understand you being hesitant to just throw a circuit board in and see what happens.

 

[Bioburner]

yeah i scoured every inch of this thing to be sure no loose pins wires grounds etc. i ran a vending machine refurbishing shop for 8 years and refurbed hot tubs for 6 years ive seen many pin /harness /rodent issues .
i checked several times for all the usual suspects..and rechecked
my biggest concern is repairing or replacing the board without at least digging for more info, i just dont want it to take out another board on me.

"Brunners bits and pieces" is one shop that repairs boards and a couple others but have never kept track of them.
I would go threw the wire loom and test via Ohm meter if something is amiss.