MY creosote concerns, and overnight burn temps with pics

[brider]

Check out the picks of the creosote in my stove pipe and chimney pipe, after about 2 weeks of newbie burning in my new Oakwood.

I have always suspected the moisture content of the wood I'm burning, but the stove WILL run away with the wood if I get a good bed of coals, and peg the stovetop thermo at or above 600 if I let it. At this time of year, a 500 deg burn for any length of time cooks us out of the room it's in (although the cats like it), so I try to maintain it at around 400.

But overnight, when I try to slow it down for an overnight burn, it will drop down to 350 and hover there. Is this too low for a burn without creosote buildup? At these overnight temps, my front door glass blacks over really fast, although I don't take precautions to keep the wood away from the glass.

Does the visible creosote warrant cleaning this soon, or could I minimize/reduce it by doing hoter, longer burns?

ALSO, I just noticed streaky creosote drips running down the top 5' of the EXTERIOR of my nice, shiny stainless chimney. Is this at all normal, and will it go away, or do I have to go up there and risk my neck and clean it off?

BTW, I've begun paying attention to the smoke coming out of my chimney, and at a 400 deg burn, I can regularly get a zero or low-smoke condition.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

It's hard to get a perspective on the creosote thickness from the pics. The first one looks 1/2" thick, but I can see the seam of the pipe so maybe it's an illusion.

 

[Jags]

Yer getting this after 2 weeks of burning???? It ain't right. Gooey drips running down your stainless pipe ain't right. Quickly blackening of your glass ain't right.

If you are questioning your wood MC then test it to be sure. My guess is: you are probably right in questioning it.
If you are questioning if your temps are too low, my guess is: your probably right.

It does seem to be an abnormal buildup in such a short time frame. Think about what this pipe is gonna look like in 2 months.

If you have seasoned wood and are burning correctly, this shouldn't happen.

Edit: 350F (I assume stove top) is probably not going to be a hot enough burn for your stove, especially if this is before the coaling stages of your fire. You are probably not maintaining a safe stack temp, which in turn makes your pipe a creosote factory. Your black glass also leads me to believe that you are running too low of a temp or have poor wood quality, or both.

 

[Dill]

Its hard to keep the glass clean on the oakwood, but at least the lower part shouldn't be getting covered.
Are you burning a good hot fire to clean it, before shutting it down?
Where are you keeping your air control over night?
And what's your outside air temp at night? Remember that 40 might not be cold enough to get a good draft. And that you'll have to run the stove hotter/with more air to compensate.
Also I agree it's hard to make out how much cresote we are talking about here.

 

[Brian VT]

I burned for 2 @ weeks in 30-40 deg. temps.
The horizontal pipe had some light brown "cornflakes" and the chimney just had some light brown "dust" on it.

 

[brider]

The soot you're looking at in the photos is about 1/32" or less, and the first pic was at the top of my inside-the-house 48" single-wall stove pipe. The second pic was of the bottom of my double-wall chimney pipe going thru the ceiling, and looking up the stack with a flashlight, the flakiness you see kind of stopped maybe a foot higher, with random patches going up to the top, but mostly smooth, dusty pipe.
But that was BEFORE the creosote dripping was observed way at the top under the top cap.

Outside temps have been dropping to 35 at night, but the daytime temps are going up to the mid-50's. I KNOW we're burning too much wood now for the novelty of it, the house isn't really cold, and a hot fire makes it too hot inside. I guess that's why I've been aiming for lower-temp burns.

Overnight, my air lever is right around mid to just under midway.

Your responses make me think I need to burn a little hotter. What kind of temps are you guys maintaining overnight?

 

[Dill]

If the temp is going to be above 50 during the day I let it go out in the morning, or at the very least I open the damper and turn the air to down 1/3. Its just not going to draw well enough to get a good burn. I'd rather restart it at 5 and burn good and hot for an hour than smolder all day. Unfortunatly I go through more wood this way since it'll take 5 or 6 pieces to get back up to temp in the afternoon. But I think its worth it. I'll go 24/7 when the day time temp stays under 45 or 50.
At night the air is usually mid way or higher. The only times I've tryed it under that with the damper closed the stove sooted up bad.

Really I don't think your burning the stove hot enough. Wait for colder weather, it'll come and in the mean time put in less wood. When I talk about filling my stove with the exception of Jan-Feb I'm only talking 3 or maybe 4 chunks of wood.

 

[Jags]

What kind of temps are you guys maintaining overnight?

Don't know, I'm usually asleep. ;-P

Really, anything before coaling stages should still have a temp high enough to thwart off the creosotes. Internal pipe temp >250F should do it. A little higher wouldn't hurt.

 

[Dill]

I moved the thermometer to the stove top lately and it'll run 300ish by morning, maybe lower with small wood loads.

 

[carp]

Me thinks you have air infiltrating the pipe at that junction!

Possibly wood on the too moist side.

A 300 degree temp a couple feet up the pipe should be more than hot enough to keep creosote at bay. Try to measure the temp on the pipe. IF a magnetic thermometer won't work, they make ones with a spring type band that wraps around the pipe.

Ya know, after looking at those pics some more it seems to me the pipe could be installed incorrectly. It does not make sense to me, that there is a lip on the inside of the pipe that it appears the double wall sits on. Look at how the creosote is peeling away at the lip. To me, the lip is obstructing your draft. Probably swirling smoke around,creating creosote, instead of it being expelled quickly out the top. Draft is also important to prevent creosote. Boils down to the temp and velocity of the draft up the pipe. Sure seems like the problem is localized to this spot. Almost like installed upside down. Male couplings should face up, female down if I remember correctly(well this seems to be system manufacturer dependent). Inside of pipe should be smooth and unobstructed all the way up. No lips, bumps, ridges.

I keep a thermometer on my pipe about the same spot you have creosote. Even a low burn will keep it at 300 up there in my Napoleon.

I would see about the same amount of creosote in my open fireplace(clay tile flue) after 1.5 cord of burnt wood.


I wouldn't burn anymore until resolved.

 

[MishMouse]

On my TL-300, if it drops down to 350 stovetop with a load of wood it would normally indicate the ab stalled and I need to crank her back up. After an 8 hour burn when everything if charcoal then 350 and below is fine.
I would try to burn smaller quick fires just to take the chill out.

 

[branchburner]

On the warmer days I'll do a fairly small fire in my Oakwood with the bypass open just to take the chill off. At night I get a good coal bed and my stove top is 600+ with little or no primary air. When I shut the bypass, again with little or no primary air except a 10-minute boost to get the load charred, the stove likes to cruise at 450-500. I only see temps below 400 much later when I'm back down to coals.
My temps are a bit high I believe, but I have been burning mostly fairly small, and very dry, branch wood and hardwood pallet scrap. I'm guessing you are burning larger/moister stuff and getting lower temps and more smoke. Next time you get a really chilly day, try a daytime burn just as you would an overnight burn and then keep a close eye on your smoke output. By doing this I found there were certain times that I expected no smoke but was getting lots, and vica versa.
I love my Oakwood, but don't expect I'll perfect my use of it until the end of my first season. Until I know all the ins and outs I'm just gonna try to burn dry and burn hot.

 

[savageactor7]

Brider you wood sounds seasoned to me if the stove will get too hot.

400 is better than 300 but I don't think you'd have that problem at 450-500. When you in and about the house just throw 1 log in at at a time and burn hotter. When you lock down for the night or an away mission then load up the stove. Get everything burning good for about 10-20 minutes then try shutting down the primary air half way for longer burn times. Maybe you can shut it down 3/4 or more with experience.

By burning hotter 1 or 2 logs at a time you'll always have abundant hot coals to supercharge the burning operation for longer/cleaner burns imo. Maybe by burning hotter that creosote will clear up it did in my old non EPA stove...it doesn't hurt to try ...but if it don't and it continues to build up.. yeah you're going to have to attend to it on a mild day for peace of mind and safety's sake.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think at two weeks, even with fully seasoned wood you will be getting some creosote buildup because you are learning the stove. The warm days only help the situation. Personally I wouldn't sweat it yet.

Most of the creosote that forms in my system forms in the singlewall before the smoke hits the chimney itself. If you are nervous about it, when you have the pipe down to inspect it, run a brush through it and up the foot or two of singlewall.

Do you have a cap on your chimney? If so, the outside drips may be from smoke condensing on the top of your cap and dripping off it.

Matt

 

[PS3696]

For the most part it seems that the problems I'm having with my Oakwood seem to be common. Glass becoming dark needing to keep the air at about half way to maintain a stove-top temp of 350-425. Can you hear your AB when the temp goes below 400? I think I may also have a draft issue?

 

[MishMouse]

For the most part it seems that the problems I'm having with my Oakwood seem to be common. Glass becoming dark needing to keep the air at about half way to maintain a stove-top temp of 350-425. Can you hear your AB when the temp goes below 400? I think I may also have a draft issue?

From what it sounds like is that you have a stall.
Your temps should stay above 400 on low once you get it working properly.

 

[begreen]

I think in these milder conditions I probably wouldn't engage the bypass for the first fire. Just run a hot, short clean fire to chase the chill away and keep the flue clean.

 

[brider]

Yes, I've begun operating at higher temps, and the glass is staying cleaner, but not completely clean. I've also learned to recognize the "stall", if I can't hold 400 deg with the bypass closed, it ain't gonna work, and I just open the damper and control the temp with the air lever and let the wood burn fast. Hopefully colder temps will work better.

 

[branchburner]

Until it's good and cold out it may be hard to say for sure if you have a real draft problem. I do know my Oakwood likes to be good and hot for the AB to cruise smoothly, and it only falls below 400 if the fire is down to coals.
Sometimes the house gets warmer than I need with the warmer outdoor temps. So if it's a shorter, smaller fire, then the damper stays open and yes, my glass soots up. I find the only time my glass cleans up is with a really good fire and the air opened halfway or more. If I open the air to full with a deep coal bed the glass will go from mostly black to nearly clear in about 15 seconds - it's amazing!

 

[ddklahr]

Is it damaging to the stove (TL-300) to run that by-pass damper open for a long period of time and the air controls in the middle?

 

[MishMouse]

Is it damaging to the stove (TL-300) to run that by-pass damper open for a long period of time and the air controls in the middle?

It would depend on what your stove temp is.
With the damper open the stove can get pretty hot. what temps are you running?
If you haven't gotten it yet, get yourself a wood stove thermeter.
Maybe even 2, one for stove top one for your pipe.
I wouldn't run the stove over 650 for extended periods of time.
My normal operating temp is between 400-550 when AB is engaged.