My first wood stove insert

[theRog05]

Hello everyone,

I stumbled across this site when doing some research on wood stove inserts.

Background:
I purchased my first home in New York just over a year ago. We are out in the middle of some corn fields and wind can cause some serious use of our oil in the winter months. Last year, I spent just under $3300 for oil in the cold months of the year (End of Oct. - Mid April, set at 68 degrees, house is decently insulated with new dual pane windows). Our house is just under 2,000 sq. ft. and I would like to lower the cost I spend on oil by purchasing a wood stove insert for where my fireplace is now. I have access to wood for free, so the cost of wood would be at my own expense of cutting and splitting it. I know that the cost of an insert and installation is going to be high, but it should pay for itself within a few years.

I have attached a drawing (excuse my paint skills ) of the layout of my house. The problem is that my fireplace is on the left most part of the house in a room that has no second level over it. All bedrooms in the upstairs are over the kitchen, dining room, workout room and living room. The bedroom I sleep in is the furthest room from the fireplace which isn't that bad because I like a cooler room to sleep in. Most of our time is spent in the entertainment room so that is a plus.

I still am in the beginning stages of looking for a stove and will be going out to a couple hearth showrooms soon to check out the inserts, but I would just like to see who else out there has a similar home setup and what they might do to make the stove most efficient to save money on heating oil. I know that I could set up some doorway fans to move hot air to other rooms, but are their certain stoves that are made for houses built like this? Should I get a stove that has a higher heating capacity than 2,000 sq. ft. because of the way my house is set up?

Any information would be extremely helpful! Thank you all in advance and I look forward to reading what you all have to say.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Welcome. The stove is an area heater. I would size it for the entertainment room and perhaps consider a second stove in the dining or living room? Otherwise this is more wood furnace territory if the goal is to heat the whole house with wood and there is a basement.

 

[prezes13]

Wood stove is a space heater so you have to rember it will take a while for the hot air to move around your house. You will have a better chance of moving it by pushing cold air towards the stove not the hot air away from it. Looks like it's going to be challenging to move that hot air around your house. You would have a better chance if you put a stove in a dining or living room by the stair case. If I was you I would go with a blaze king stove. That's because they are very efficient and they allow a long burn times so you would be able to run it 24/7. They are a bit pricey but I would imagine that at the cost of oil heat it would pay for itself in two years. That's if you get free wood. Also rember that modern stove needs a well seasoned wood that means stacked and split for at least 2 years for hard wood. Moisture content should be 20% or less in the middle of a split. This is the best website for wood burners. There is a lot of very knowledgable people here. They will walk you through every step of wood burning adventure you will learn a lot. One thing I have to warn you. Wood burning and this site are very addicting. All that said ask as many questions as you can come up with don't be shy. People here are ver helpfull.

 

[begreen]

If you want to attempt to heat more of the house, go up a size from the area heater and do as prezes13 mentioned. Blow air from the hallway, down low, toward the stove room. Us a table fan or small floor fan and set it in the hallway pointed toward the entertainment room. Run it on low speed. The cooler air the fan pushes toward the stove room will be replaced with warm air from that room.

 

[theRog05]

Thanks guys!

Couple more questions.

Prezes13: You mention the blaze king stove. Any other stoves that are decent brands? I just want to look out for the cheap brands and not purchase anything cheaply made.

Is it safe to burn while everyone is sleeping/away at work for the day?

Non-catalytic vs catalytic...I'm reading that most people and businesses are leaning towards non-catalytic stoves because the catalytic stoves need the catalyst replaced over time. Do you have a preference? And why?
(I also read that catalytic stoves have a longer burn time, but that causes more build up of creosote and causes dirty glass on the front of the stove.)

I'll keep the questions coming as I think of them

Thanks again everyone!

 

[begreen]

Many people here burn 24/7. The key to not having a creosote issue is keeping the flue gases warm enough so that they don't condense in the flue. This is controlled by the installation of an insulated liner (or double-wall stove pipe), burning good, fully-seasoned wood, and not smoldering the fire. Cat stoves do a better job of running at a low setting and still burning up the smoke. As long as the catalyst is up to temperature it will burn unburnt flue gases. A modern cat stove will go through a cat every 4-6 yrs on average. There are always exceptions on both sides. Mistreat a cat and it may go in a year, baby it and there are reports of some lasting 10 years. Blaze King makes a premium stove that guarantees their catalysts.

There are many threads on this forum discussing the pros and cons of cat stoves. Use the search function (above right) to search for "cat vs" in the title only. Here are the first couple:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cat-vs-non-cat.127681/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cat-vs-noncat.115601/

 

[theRog05]

Thanks, I have read some stuff on cats and non-cats, but I need to research some more.

You mentioned a wood furnace in your first post. I have a pretty much brand new oil furnace but still spend a lot of money on oil. I'm wondering if I should look into add on wood furnaces as well because I do have a chimney that goes all the way into the basement that sits next to the oil furnace. I wonder if I would be able to put in an add on wood furnace and exhaust the heat into the chimney. I'm not sure how familiar you are with wood furnaces (maybe I should start another thread in a different part of the site).

 

[begreen]

A wood furnace is certainly an option. There are some good models on the market from USG (Caddy brand) and BlazeKing (Apex brand) and some newer units that look good, but we don't have a long-term track record for them yet. They would be the Drolet Tundra and the Napoleon HFM150. You can try a new thread in the boiler room or here for opinions and experiences.

Does the basement have easy access to outdoors? Hauling wood through the house and down stairs on a regular basis gets old quickly.

 

[theRog05]

I do have a walk out basement. And right now, I have a chord of wood sitting next to the bulkhead doors. I also have some room in the basement to stack some wood but always worry about critters running around in the wood. haha.

 

[prezes13]

I mentioned blaze king because they got their stove as far as cat down to a science. No other stove got such a great review on this site as their stoves and that's from real people. Of course there is a lot of other brands that are reputable and well liked. Jotul, lopi, hearthstone, pacific energy, buck that's just few of them. I can only tell you that if I was to do it all over again I would have bought blaze king princess insert. I love my insert for its look and heat out put but if I knew then what I know now I would go with the princess.

 

[begreen]

Your Cape Cod is a better looking princess.

 

[weatherguy]

Rog, a decent stove will throw plenty of heat into the entertainment room and kitchen so if you spend most of your time there a insert would be fine, you could set your t-stat lower sine you wouldn't need as much heat in the bedrooms, that would make a pretty big dent in your oil bill. Of course if you want the other rooms as warm as well then you can try fans or the wood furnace. I had the BK princess and loved it, I went to a bigger stove only because my house was too large for the Princess but I wouldn't hesitate to get another BK.

 

[Ricky8443]

I did several months of tedious research. I think blaze king is the best solution for the new wood burner looking for a perfect solution, like in your case.

 

[prezes13]

Thank you BG she is a looker and performers pretty good too. Rog just came to me since your chimney is on the shorter part of the house make sure your chimney will be tall enough. I remember about one member who had a problem with BK Ashford because of short chimney.

 

[Owen1508]

Newmac (Canada) make a very interesting wood/coal unit that also can burn oil/gas or even electric as well. The oil/gas/electric part kicks on if the wood part of the unit is not producing enough heat (as a back up) it is a very interesting unit. They also sell an add-on that can turn the unit into a pellet burner down the road too. It's a new to me concept but interesting. Maybe some others can add more on it.

http://www.newmacfurnaces.com/

 

[theRog05]

That's a pretty cool setup, Owen. I'll have to look at them. Only thing is that I already have a new oil furnace.

Weatherguy, I would love to have the insert because its just nice and cozy to have in the entertainment room. Yes, I do use that room and the kitchen most, but I'm starting to think that I would rather have my whole house warmer. I need to get to a store and keep researching online to see the cost difference as well. Looks like an insert and furnace could be around the same price (depending on installation fee). I'm a pretty handy guy (woodworker/mechanic/all around) but when it comes to fire in the house, I feel like it would be best to have a professional install.

 

[dave_376]

If you have a hot air furnace and an open chimney to vent into the most logical solution to your heating problems is an add on wood furnace. It will heat your house much more evenly than any kind of stove or insert.
I have a boiler and only a single chimney in the basement so my options were limited to a fireplace insert on the main floor. I am adequately pleased with it's heating abilities. Draw backs are uneven heat distribution throughout the house and some mess in the house.

 

[theRog05]

dave,

I have one chimney in the basement in which the oil heater is vented into. But while researching, I have found that some states allow you to vent two furnaces into the same chimney as long as you have two liners? I'm not sure if that is an option for me or not. Have you heard of this? I should probably contact my town fire chief inspector and see what he thinks.

 

[dave_376]

you may not have room for 2 liners.If you have a large enough chimney for 2 liners you could insulate with perlite and be in good shape. I would be clear in explaining that you want 2 separate flues 1 for each appliance.

 

[theRog05]

So, after more research and still not hearing back from the inspector I haven't made much progress . I'm pretty sure that I don't have enough room in the chimney for 2 liners.

My chimney has three spots where it looks like appliances have been hooked up at one point in time. The first spot is where my current oil furnace exhausts into. The second spot has a "cover" that blocks off that section. The third spot doesn't even look like it could have ever been used. It kind of looks like a short metal pipe coming out of the chimney wall but is closed off with concrete? The second spot enters higher than the first spot, which is why I wonder if the previous owners had two appliances vent into the one chimney at one point in time (maybe code was different back then?). So at this point, I should probably call and expert to come look at my situation and give me some options.

If I cannot use that chimney for a wood furnace as well, that means my first option would be to add a chimney on the outside of the house for the wood furnace. Anyone know about how much that would cost?

My only other option would be to go with a wood stove insert like my original plan. I'm guessing that this is something I could probably tackle myself and not have to pay anyone to do it. Anyone here install one before? My guess would be that I just need to remove the damper, clean the old clay flue and buy a flexible liner kit to run down through. Attach it to the stove and voila! I am a pretty handy guy but I'm not sure if this is something I would want to do since it deals with fires in my home! haha

 

[begreen]

There are dozens of self-install threads posted here. Often several a week during peak season. This can be done if you are reasonably handy ,safety conscious and patient.

 

[Andy S.]

Is it a full wall between the entertainment room and the kitchen or a half wall? Is it a prefab fireplace or is it a "real" one. If you can fit a nice-sized insert in there and have a half wall between the insert and the kitchen I'll bet you can make a big dent in the oil bill with an insert and the floor fan on low blowing into the entertainment room as mentioned above.

 

[theRog05]

It is a "real" fireplace. Just has a clay flu all the way down and a damper that you open and close. We burn just for visual in the winter but doesn't really heat anything unless you sit right in front of it. The wall is a full wall. The doorway is the only way into the kitchen. I'm sure if I set up a fan and get an insert it will help at least a little.

 

[velvetfoot]

It's quite nice buying the whole package with installation and in one day it's installed. Plus, it is two stories and I imagine you'll need some help with the liner.
I think whatever you do, you'll like the insert in there. It will be a cozy place to hang out, and maybe you can get some of the heat to move around with fans and stuff.

If you can do a furnace I've heard the Kuuma gasification furnace is supposed to be good.

 

[bholler]

i would have a sweep look at your chimney it sounds like you have multiple crocks in the basement which could mean multiple flues. If so it would not be hard to hook up a furnace there. although it will lickly still need a liner