My Installation Log....Updated with pics

[Lasher]

This weekend is going to be my installation of my insert. Wish me luck...

Background...
A neighbor gave me an older Olympic insert. He upgraded to a OWB and wanted to get rid of the insert sitting in his garage. So I took it off his hands. The stove had some exterior rust from the direct connect he used, and from sitting for a year or so. Plus the glass on the door was broken.

My house is a contempory colonial with a pretty open floor plan built in 2002. About 2200 sqft with a split stairs off the living room and a 2 story foyer including a ceiling fan up there. In the living room is a large fireplace, marble hearth and surround and exterior chimney in great shape. I am currently heating the house with forced air using propane. With the $1 a gallon (currently $3.12) increase from last year, my heating bill run about $600 for just over a month with the temp set at 63 degrees. So I cannot wait for the stove to be working.

Prep Work...
I wire brushed and sanded the entire stove and painted with metallic black stove paint. It came out really nice. Even the wife was impressed. When she first looked at the stove she did not want to put in house. Now it looks like it came off the showroom floor. Tonight I will be sanding the surrounds and painting them.

I purchased a new glass, glass gasket and door gasket. That will be put together tonight as well. The door itself is solid brass, and needed some TLC. I ended up sanding down the bad spots, using a special buffer pad to get rid of any scratches and then some wadding polish to make it shine. For being 10 years old, it came out great. Not perfect, but good enough. The only problem I have with the door is that all the screws for the glass hardware were broken off. I was able to drill out 6 out of 8 of them, but two will not go. One I know has a broken drill bit inside since I did that one, and the other one I think has a drill bit from the previous owner because nothing will touch it. Tonight I am going to tap the new screw holes that I drilled and I got some smaller screws to make new holes for the two I cannot drill out.

I ended up buying a new fan motor for the insert. The old fan motor only had OFF-LOW-HIGH speeds and no thermostat in it. Plus only one of the fan motors worked. The one that did work was making all kinds of noise. So I brought the new fan assembly.

Chimney...
I went all out when buying a new liner for the chimney. I brought a duraliner rigid double lined and insulated for the top 20 feet, and a 5 foot flex to connect to the insert. (Thanks Hogzwild) VentingPipe.com send me an 8 inch flex by mistake, but the sent the correct item out and I am all set now. I will say that the difference between rigid double walled and the flex is HUGE. I wish I had a straight shot up the liner to do it all in rigid. But I have to move about 1 foot off center from the top of the stove to the clay liner. My current liner is 13x13 so dropping this down should not be a problem at all.

I have a steel wire brush to clean out the existing liner and that will take place on Saturday. In the future I will get the poly brush for the liner.

Roof...
My chimney top is about 30 some odd feet off the ground. My roof pitch is about 45 degrees. I ended up getting a 40 foot ladder to reach the chimney, but I will be working off the roof. When I went up on the roof to measure the chimney, I almost did not make it down! Snow was making me slid too much. So I went to the local ladder store and got some roof hooks. I can now hook these onto the peak, and then attach a straight ladder (borrowed from in-laws) so getting onto the roof and off will no longer be a problem. As for doing the work, the chimney is directly on the peak, so standing there is not an issue, it was just getting on or off the roof. I might have to build a small step, since the top of the chimney is about should high. I will use wood and secure it to chimney with a strap.

Clearences...
My mantel is too low, so I had to buy the big ugly mantel sheild. The top of mantel is fine, but the fancy trim work underneath is too low. I might in the future put a sheild directly under the mantel using cermanic spacers, but for right now I will deal with the ugly heat sheild. The only other clearence issues I have is the hearth front. I am missing about 3-4 inches. Currently the hearth from the front of the fireplace is 19 3/4 inches. But the insert will stick out about 6-8 inches onto the hearth. So I need to extend the hearth a little. I check the manual and all I need is a 26 guage steel (0.018 thick) and I am good. So I will place a 26 guage peice of steel on the floor and cover it with a hearth rug or even do something in tile.

So I am pretty much all set for the installation this weekend. Here are my plans...

Tonight -
Get the glass installed on the door and all gaskets in place.
Sand down the surrounds and apply stove paint to them.

Friday -
Get the material needed for the block off plate and hearth extension.
Pick up other odds and ends, such as high temp silicone (for liner cap)
Start getting everything ready for Saturday install and maybe start cutting the damper or start the block off plate.

Saturday -
Clean the chimney.
Cut out damper (if not done on Friday night).
Install the liner.
Install the insert.
Make block off plate.
If everything is good, open windows and start fire! If not, anything left over will be done on Sunday.

I will keep this updated to let everything know how it is going. But if things go smoothly I should have a fire in the insert Saturday night.

 

[Lasher]

After weekend update...

It was a long weekend, and I am feeling sore/tired today...

Saturday...
Started about noon cleaning out the chimney. I used a 6 inch square steel brush to clean the fire box and the smoke shelf area. Of course the 4 ft extension I brought was the wrong thread size, so I had to just reach up there. Then onto the roof to clean the flue. Dropped a rope down with and pulled the 12 inch steel brush down and up a couple times. Got the flue nice and clean.

Next was the damper removal. First I tried the Sawall and it was working ok, but the blades were getting shot very fast. So I grabbed my die grinder from the garage and ran the air hose thru the house. This was slow going but in the end did the job. At this point there is no turning back!

Now it was time to drop the liner down the chimney. My father and I came up with the idea of putting the 5 ft of flex and the first 4 feet of rigid together on the ground and lowering it down. Seemed like a good idea. Climb on the roof and get the 9ft section up there. As I am standing on the peak of the roof (about 30 feet off the ground) I am finding it hard to keep my balance and use two hands. But I had a bigger problem, the top of the chimney was at neck high, with me on the peak. And as I was trying to pick up the flex/rigid up, the weight of the rigid was causing the flex to bend. Rather than break something or worse, fall off the roof, I stopped and came down. At this point it was around 4pm. My father and I thought about the issues. First, putting the two pieces together was a bad idea, so that was easy to solve. But we realized that I needed something else on the roof to help me install the liner. A few measurements later an idea was born...build a platform that could be placed on the roof to give me additional height and a safe/stable platform to work off. My father left for night and I ran to Home Depot for some wood.

That night I was in the garage building the platform until 2am. Ended up with four legs, length depended on the roof pitch that would give me the height and was 32 inches across and 24 inches deep. I made sure that I braced the legs extremely well. The top was a 5/8 plywood cut to fit. And for safety, I created a railing that was 40 inches above the platform floor that attached to base. It seemed like it would work, if I could get it up on the roof.

Sunday...
Started around 11am. First order of business was to get the new platform on the roof. First up was the base. Weight was not bad and it was actually not too ackward. I carried it up the ladder and placed it on the roof edge. Climb onto the roof and then brought it to the peak. Let me say this, without the ladder roof hooks and ladder laying on the roof, going up and down was not going to happen. Best $40 I spent in a long time. But I got the base up to the peak and put it into position. I cut the legs at 45 degrees but the roof is probably about 40 degrees, but it seemed to rest fine. I took a heavy duty ratchet strap, put it around the chimney and locked the base to the chimney. The base was now in place and pretty secure. No movement at all. Next, I climbed down and got the plywood for the base floor, brought it up and screwed it in place. The railings I had to take apart on the ground, too tall to bring up in one piece and then scew it together on the roof. Once everything was in place I tried it out. Perfect! It gave me the height I needed and a very secure platform to work on. Onto the liner...

First thing I did was put the top plate on along with some high temp silicone. I was not sure about doing this part first, but I was afraid that I would not be able to put it on afterwards with the liner installed. How true this was going to be. Next was to lower the flex pipe. Fairly easy. Oh, in order to get each piece to not drop all the way down I used two straps around the liners. This would get caught on top plate and stop the inserted pipe from falling. Then I would put a second strap on the next piece before attaching. Once the two pieces were attached, I would take off the strap on the bottom and lower the pipe, letting the top strap catch on the top plate. Worked pretty good. But as I attached each rigid piece on, that liner got real heavy. Once the whole assembly slide down faster than I thought and the stap clocked me in the head. No blood, just hurt like heck. Since my flue is 13x13, the 6 inch liner went down pretty easy. I got all the pieces in place and moved onto the insert.

Used a dolly and wheeled the beast into the house. Put down a thin board (not to scratch the hardwood floor or marble hearth) and muscled the stove in place. Boy these things weight a ton! Once in place, we realized that the flex pipe was not going to attach to the stove top. The top exit of the stove was about 6 inches further towards the front than the flex and about 6 inches to the left. We played with the flex pipe, but with the smoke shelf/damper the angle was too much for the flex. It would have kinked the flex. So I called Home Depot and asked if they had 2 45 degree elbows in 6 inch diameter. The guy says, no all we have is 45 degrees? After going in circles with the idiot, I take a road trip to Home Depot. All they have is 90 degree elbows. So back home we head knowing that it was going to get hook up tonight. Since it was after 4pm, nothing else was open.

I went online and found that Ventingpipe.com had 45 degree elbows that were made for my liner connections. One of the things I was afraid of was buying a cheap elbow when I spent all this money on a good liner system. So I order it last night and should find out today on how long it will take to get here. If it comes out of Ohio, then I could have it by the weekend, but if it comes out of CA, then it would be next week some time.

So end result...liner is installed, stove in place and waiting on 2 elbows for final connection. Along with attaching the liner cap.

 

[Lasher]

Oops, ran out of characters...

Things that I have left to complete...
Drill new hole for one of glass hardware screws and tap.
Attach glass into door
Attach gasket for door
Sand and paint the surround panals
Attach stove to liner
Install cap on liner
Take down the roof platform.

Things I learned...
Nice doing things yourself, even if the project will nickel and dime me to death. But at least I know it is done right.
The rigid liner may not seem to weigh too much by itself, but when you put 5 - 4ft sections and 1 - 2ft section, it weighs a ton.
The time you spend making sure you have a nice work area (roof platform) is well worth it.
And I cannot wait for my first fire in the insert.

I will try and take some pictures of the roof platform to show you guys.

 

[moondoggy]

wow man, this is one hell of a log.
look forward to the pics.

 

[Lasher]

I know it is long, but if some one get an idea or two for thier installation I will be happy.

Plus, for all the hours that I have spent (here at work) reading, I figured I could return a story of my installation.

 

[granpajohn]

Lasher, I took one look at this long post and thought "no way I'm reading this whole thing"; but, well... I just read every word. Nicely written. I doubt many others have had to drill-and-tap just to install their stove.
Any yes, I would look at a photo or 2.

 

[Hogwildz]

Yeap, like a carbon copy of my install. Less the glass problem. Same double wall 5 -4' sections & a 2' to top it off, 5' flex at the bottom. Luckily, I cut enough damper out to get the flex direct to the stove adapter. Yeap used sawzaw & 4-1/2" angle grinder. I just did not want elbows that would make it harder to clean and slightly slow draft.
You do realize they make a 45degree & 30 degree stove adapter right? That flex is tougher than you think. When we did Newtown's liner, the original was offset to one side of the fire box and out. So I had to bend to the center of the box & then outward, and then a tad to straighten it to meet the adapter squarely. Odf course I don't know exactly what you are dealing with.
Sounds like your almost there, and yes its a complete groan doing it yourself, that double wall does get heavy after 5 lengths added on. Just so awkward.
Shoulda took pics man Keep us posted. And good choice to go with the double wall, it cleans real easy, and gather very little creo-dust when ya burn it hot.

 

[Lasher]

The problem with trying to bend the flex pipe is that the damper was cut back to the brick and mortar, but I still don't have much room. Probably a little over a foot from the damper to the stove top that I would have to bend the flex 3 inches to the left and 6 inches to the front. Looking down at the top of the insert from the front, the flex right now is diagonally back and to the right of the top of the stove opening, so that the edge of the flex is touching the edge of stove exit. That flex is tough to bend, I was afraid to kink it and wreck the whole set up. How much you can this stuff bend? When I was on the roof and seemed to bend pretty easy with the weight of the rigid, but trying to reach up in the fireplace and bend it seems to take a lot of effort. I will have to search around for picture of bends to see how far it can go.

Would two 45 degree elbows really hurt the draft that much? Not 2 to create a 90 degree, but create a S type bend.

Using the weights list on the website...5ft flex + 22ft of rigid weighs about 83 lbs. That thing got real heavy at the end. Not to mention I figured out where my 18 inches of "fudge factor" went to. When I connect the pieces together, I loose about an 1.5 inches on each end of the two pieces when fitting together. I did not include that in my calculations.

 

[Lasher]

Hogwildz - was that the rigid flex or the regular flex. I am on the phone with them now and they say a 30 degree bend is about the most you can go.

 

[Hogwildz]

The problem with trying to bend the flex pipe is that the damper was cut back to the brick and mortar, but I still don't have much room. Probably a little over a foot from the damper to the stove top that I would have to bend the flex 3 inches to the left and 6 inches to the front. Looking down at the top of the insert from the front, the flex right now is diagonally back and to the right of the top of the stove opening, so that the edge of the flex is touching the edge of stove exit. That flex is tough to bend, I was afraid to kink it and wreck the whole set up. How much you can this stuff bend? When I was on the roof and seemed to bend pretty easy with the weight of the rigid, but trying to reach up in the fireplace and bend it seems to take a lot of effort. I will have to search around for picture of bends to see how far it can go.

Would two 45 degree elbows really hurt the draft that much? Not 2 to create a 90 degree, but create a S type bend.

Using the weights list on the website...5ft flex + 22ft of rigid weighs about 83 lbs. That thing got real heavy at the end. Not to mention I figured out where my 18 inches of "fudge factor" went to. When I connect the pieces together, I loose about an 1.5 inches on each end of the two pieces when fitting together. I did not include that in my calculations.

Yes the flex is hard to bend from outside the fireplace, I had a hell of a time. Bends sound similar to yours.
2-45's shouldn't be a problem, not to mention they are near the stove, so it will be at a hotter area of the liner. I doubt you will have much of a creosote problem. As far as draft, I know a 90 is considered -5' off the liner length, so 2-45's?? I'm guessing around -5' off the length.
Yes it gets heavy, more due to the fact your holding it up from up top, and its awkward to grab & hold.
I did figure the 1-1/2" joint loss in mine, thats why I have the 2' pc at top. Could have gotten away with a 1' pc, but wanted to have too much rather than not enough.
I think Newtown took photos & posted them on the liner install we did at his place. Maybe look them up, or PM him to send you the photos. Sounds similar to your chimney set up.

 

[Hogwildz]

Hogwildz - was that the rigid flex or the regular flex. I am on the phone with them now and they say a 30 degree bend is about the most you can go.

Rigid flex? Never heard of it. Its same flex that would line a complete chimney.

 

[Lasher]

On ventingpipe.com there are two liners. Regular flex which comes in the longer lengths and the rigid flex which only comes in a 5ft max length. I got the rigid flex (4660-F) which is in the "rigid" section.

I looked at the photos for NetwonPA install and notice that he used the regular flex pipe (longer length) which the customer service guy tells me is easier to bend. I order the two 45 degree elbows yesterday, so I might just wait for them to come in. Both my father and myself think that there is not enough room to make all the bends necessary to meet the stove top with the way this stuff bends, or lack of bending.

 

[Hogwildz]

On ventingpipe.com there are two liners. Regular flex which comes in the longer lengths and the rigid flex which only comes in a 5ft max length. I got the rigid flex (4660-F) which is in the "rigid" section.

I looked at the photos for NetwonPA install and notice that he used the regular flex pipe (longer length) which the customer service guy tells me is easier to bend. I order the two 45 degree elbows yesterday, so I might just wait for them to come in. Both my father and myself think that there is not enough room to make all the bends necessary to meet the stove top with the way this stuff bends, or lack of bending.

I ordered mine from ventingpipe.com also. And ordered the flex on same page as the rigid. SO I guess its rigid flex.
You'll be fine with the 45's.

 

[Lasher]

Looked at the webpage, the "rigid" flex is actually a double walled....here are the specs...

Material Specifications:
Inner Wall: .016” 304 Stainless Steel
Outer Wall: .018” Aluminized Steel

 

[Hogwildz]

Looked at the webpage, the "rigid" flex is actually a double walled....here are the specs...

Material Specifications:
Inner Wall: .016” 304 Stainless Steel
Outer Wall: .018” Aluminized Steel

Ah, I caught that when I was shopping on their site for my liner.
If you check any of the other products on that page's specs, you'll see that is a blanket, general description. It is in fact single wall. Those specs you are reading are really for the rigid pipe. They basically leave that on all the descriptions. Trust me, the flex is single wall.

 

[Lasher]

I am all set and burning away....not without issues of course...

Friday night I set out to sand and paint the surrounds, install door glass and all gaskets. I put in the glass gasket, placed the glass in the center and started to tighten the clips. All of a sudden the glass cracked, I guess I tightened the clips too much. Let me just say that I am sure the neighbors heard my swears. That was it for me that night. I was too upset to continue working anymore.

Saturday I started on the surrounds. First I wire brushed them and then started to apply the stove paint. In the end, they came out great. Next I ran to the store and brought a new glass. Returned home and got it installed without breaking it. Next up was getting the 2 45 degree elbows installed. Here is how that went...

-- First order of business was to drag the insert back out of the fireplace.
-- Then pulled the entire liner up the flue about a foot to clear the insert top. I climbed on the roof and my father pushed from below.
-- Next we test fitted the elbows to get and angles right. This meant dragging the insert back into the fireplace into place. Once we knew where the elbows needed to be, we put a pen mark on the two elbows.
-- Now we dragged the insert back out and removed the elbows. Drilled the necessary holes for the pop rivets (using the pen lines as a guide) and installed the two elbows.
-- Once the elbows were in place, we pushed that 500lb insert back into position and I climbed back onto the roof to lower the liner. But the liner would not sit flush into insert top. The angle was just a touch off causing the front of elbow on the stove to sit about 1/4 inch off. Now this is not the side of the elbow, just the lip that sticks out was too hig. We tried everything to get that thing to sit flush, but it would not stay. After trying every, we deiced to use the stove cement to make sure that it sealed correctly. I think it came out pretty good.
-- Next was the block off plate. We used 26 guage steel and I used the directions here as a guide. But the front of the block off plate rests on the lip of the fireplace and the two sides and back are the bent edges. I used a peice of liner insulation on top of the block off plate and pushed it into place. Again, it came out perfect. To make the dimensions, we used cardboard to create a template and then transfered it to the steel. To bend the edges, we put the steel between 2 2x4's, which I then screwed together, and turned the 2x4's with the steel on the ground to bend the edges. Worked out perfectly and was pretty easy.
-- Installed the door and surround, placed the cap on the liner and started the dis-assembly of my roof platform.
DONE!

That afternoon I started a fire to cure the paint, and got the wife a little upset with the smell. I kept a fire going most of the evening with the windows open. Next day was really nice out, so I opened the windows again and started a fire to finish the curing.

On Sunday, I did my first "heating" fire. Around 4pm, I shut the windows and check the temp in the house (heat had been off) and it was 58 degrees. I got a good fire going and around 6pm the downstairs was at 68 degrees. I had a nice fire going all evening during the Superbowl and around 10pm I check the temps in the rooms. Downstairs was 71 degrees and the upstairs was also 71 degrees.

Over the course of the next couple days, I have pretty much had a fire going from the time I get home from work until I go to bed. I probably load the insert with wood around 9-10pm with a couple splits and I am not sure when it goes out during the night, but in the morning everything is out. There are a couple coals left but nothing too big. I have been trying the north-south and east-west burns to see any differences but it is hard to judge. Mainly because I have been buying wood at the store (gas station/grocery store) until I can find some seasoned wood to buy. But I am loving having a fire that puts out heat instead of pulling my propane heated house air up the chimney.

I have attached 3 pictures.
One is of the ladder set up I used to get to the roof. The bottom ladder is a 40ft ladder, then the roof ladder is a 12ft ladder using roof hooks. You can see the roof platform that I made on the top of the peak.
Another picture is a close up of the platform I made.
The last picture is of the insert in my fireplace.

 

[moondoggy]

you the man. that is not somewhere this dog is comfortable. (i'd need 911 to get down)
but your ladder set up/pertch is great and looks sturdy. you should paint it and leave it as a place to sit and have a beer. move away from stack of course.
stove looks great. i wish you luck.... and better wood source.
i assume you tried to craigslisted it?

 

[gpcollen1]

Gotta love the Olympic - but you are going to go broke buying wood by the bundle. I do not know where you are in CT but there should be plenty of places around that have seasoned wood - or at least something burnable.

As for that Olympic, with a hot stove, stuff that thing full of wood at 10ish - let it rip with the door open and then closed until it hits over 600 and then damper it down almost all the way (maybe an 1/8 shy of all the way). At 6ish you should still have some nice coals in there to get it going again in a snap if you like. E/W is the best way to pack this stove if your log length is longer.

Next time you go moving that 450 lb beast around, cut some 1" pvc into lengths, pry the stove up and slide them underneath one by one. watch that baby roll along with the push of a finger. I pull my stove out and slide it off to the side by myself with this method.

 

[Lasher]

The platform is in 3 peices. The bottom is one piece, then the floor of the platform and finally the railings. The railings I needed to take apart to get it up/down, but the rest was easy. I kept everything together so that when it comes time to cleaning, I can just put it back up there.

I have look at craigslist for wood and will be making some calls later this week. I found one person who has red oak that they say was split over a year ago. But I know that oak can take up to two years to dry, so I am still looking. Not to mention, I have a standing dead maple tree in my yard that I itching to see how dry it is.

 

[Lasher]

CT - I do love this stove. I wish I took pics before I cleaned up. My wife and father-in-law both thought I was nuts to think about putting it in the fireplace. But now they think it looks like a new stove.

I just picked up a thermometer today. Do I attach it on the cook top or the front? I hear everyone saying that on top is best, but I am not sure if the cook top will give me a false reading. Without the thermometer I was worried about over firing the insert so I have been taking it easy with loading it up. Plus buying by the bundle would not help the wallet! Once I get a good supply of wood I will play with loading it up and watch the temps.

At this point, I start the fire, put the air control to wide open and close the door. In a few minutes the fire is going good and I start to slow the air down and have guessing when by watching the flames. A ton of flames and I choke it down to the point where I am still getting secondary burns. When the firebox is full of flames, that thing sure is pretty to look at, but I think it is eating up the wood too fast. So my wallet (and nervous about too hot) kicks in and I choke it down. I will play more with the thermometer.

For moving the insert, we put a piece of flooring down and just slide it into place. Took some effort, but it was not that bad.

 

[pinewoodburner]

Laser, I have a question for you. Why did you use both flex and rigid liner? Is having the connection better than just having the flex liner with no joints in the chimney? I know that the rigid liner is better if it is rigid the entire way. Thanks. I am doing all the research to install a stove at my house. Tired of paying the oil man.

 

[Lasher]

pinewoodburner - I had to use flex to make the final 5 feet or so. My flue (straight up) is about 22ft to the top of the chimney. If looking from the front, the flue is about 1ft to the right and back about 1ft from where the exit of the insert is placed. I thought that I could bend the flex to make it connect to the stove, but the damper (even after cutting out some) created too much of a twist. I only had about 1.5ft from the insert top to the damper/smoke shelf, so the flex could not make it.

I went with rigid because it is a better/safer pipe. I order duraliner from ventingpipe.com and it came to about $1200 + the two elbows. The rigid pipe is also insulated and double walled. With my chimney being exterior, I knew I needed to insulate it, and this stuff seemed to be really good. I am very impressed with the quality of the duraliner. The connections between pipes is awesome and easy to put together to create a great seal. Hogzwild did a similar installation as me (where I got my idea from) and it seems to be working great. Draft is not a problem that I can see.

Plus, my wife was very nervous about this whole woodstove thing. By going with rigid/insulated/double lined I could honestly tell her not to worry. I would have hated trying to install 30ft of flex lining with insulation into my chimney from the roof. Like I said, the connection on the rigid pipes are a near perfect design. The interior pipe overlaps about 2 inches to create the seal and the outside has extra pieces to create a male/female connection that you pop rivet together.

 

[pinewoodburner]

Thanks for the information. Your stove looks great and I am glad my roof is not like yours. I have a ranch house that I use a 10 foot ladder to get on. My chimney is in the middle of the house and comes out of the roof at the peak. Chimney has 3 different flues and the fireplace I am going to use has never had a fire in it, and the house was built 1952. 12" x 12" terracotta liner inside the bricks. It will take 15.5 feet to line it. I was going to use a flex liner with insulation due to the curve in the flue at the bottom. Installing the liner will be much easier than what you had to deal with. I will look at the flue again and take some measurements on the straight part and look into the rigid pipe. I may get by with 10 - 12 feet. I will look into it.

 

[gpcollen1]

I just picked up a thermometer today. Do I attach it on the cook top or the front? I hear everyone saying that on top is best, but I am not sure if the cook top will give me a false reading. Without the thermometer I was worried about over firing the insert so I have been taking it easy with loading it up. Plus buying by the bundle would not help the wallet! Once I get a good supply of wood I will play with loading it up and watch the temps.

I put mine on top just to the right of the bypass - as good a place as any. I have not even gotten my stove over 700ish so I do not worry about overfiring too much - I think it would have to be almost intentional.

 

[Lasher]

From my research, there is a difference in the flex liners. Some have people standing on them to show how strong the liners are. When I called the company up about mine, I found that the "true" flex liner is different than the "rigid" flex liner I brought. If I had gotten the regular flex liner, I would have skipped the elbows and been able to bend it.